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About those pesky "women's rights" in Iran
These days, there's a lot of talk in the American media about the issue of women's rights in Iran. Conservative columnist Kathleen Parker even wrote a column in yesterday's Post bemoaning the plight of Iranian women. And even on this board, there was a thread about women's hardships in places like Iran.
But have any of you actually seen, or interacted with, Iranian women? In my experience, they are some of the strongest, feistiest, most outspoken, most businesslike women in the world, who put their docile and family-oriented American sisters to shame.
Consider: the only reason Mr. Moussavi (the accidental opposition leader) was able to gain any kind of fame, or following, was due to his wife--the famous professor, artist, and personality Zahra Rahnavard, who overshadowed him for years:
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He was out of public life for two decades, a soft-spoken architect who loves to watch movies at home and was overshadowed for years by his distinguished wife, Zahra Rahnavard, a professor and artist. (SOURCE 1) |
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[Moussavi has] a magnificently feisty and much more liberal wife, Zahra Rahnavard ... Dr Rahnavard broke with tradition by actively campaigning for her husband. She held a press conference to denounce Mr Ahmadinejad as a liar, misogynist and betrayer of revolutionary values. She wears colourful clothes, and fights for women�s rights. She is everything her husband is not � bold, outspoken, radical and a forceful public performer. Mr Mousavi emerged as the preferred candidate ... partly because of his wife. (SOURCE 2) |
Looks like you did your homework. Well done.
I've seen some really beautiful Iranian women on several instances. A country of many cultures, with many faces and beliefs. A system being eroded by their current regime.
I honestly think that Iran should switch back to their ancient name (Persia) and their ancient pre-Islamic culture - which is very fascinating. Iran always strived to be unique, powerful, influential in the region. They outta drop their fake Islamic mask and reclaim their old glory and image. Islam has eroded Persian culture.
Yet there are still many who like think the women in Iran look like the women in Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan with no rights or education.
Iran is a very unique country in the region and Iam glad to see that many are beginning to see thee brave men and women the way they are.
p.s. The media in the west has been trying to make the Iranians look very very bad for many years. Trying to make us look like a bunch of cavemen living in the dirt houses.
Re: About those pesky "women's rights" in Iran
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| Originally posted by HardTranceProd But have any of you actually seen, or interacted with, Iranian women? In my experience, they are some of the strongest, feistiest, most outspoken, most businesslike women in the world, who put their docile and family-oriented American sisters to shame. . |
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| Originally posted by hardcore trancer p.s. The media in the west has been trying to make the Iranians look very very bad for many years. Trying to make us look like a bunch of cavemen living in the dirt houses. |
look in the The Stoning of Soraya M. Womens right are a big issue there. While the Mullahs control the country, there will be true freedom, although even in the US True Freedom doesnt exist either...
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| Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN maybe if the iranian regime(s) didn't give them so much ammunition it would be different? iranian 16yo girl executed for crimes against chastity this is the 21st century ffs. you can't blame the west for being concerned about such blatant abuses against women. |
The reason why women in Iran are not like those in other islamic countries is simply because Iran wasn't an islamic country up until 1979.
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| Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 The reason why women in Iran are not like those in other islamic countries is simply because Iran wasn't an islamic country up until 1979. |
Re: Re: About those pesky "women's rights" in Iran
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| Originally posted by Clovis I'm sorry but what does that have to do with wanting them to have more rights? |
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The reason why women in Iran are not like those in other islamic countries is simply because Iran wasn't an islamic country up until 1979. |
Re: Re: Re: About those pesky "women's rights" in Iran
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| Originally posted by HardTranceProd My point is they already have plenty of rights. Iranian women are not the shackled and oppressed type of Saudi Arabia, they're a completely different breed. But many ignorant observers complain about "women's rights" without making this distinction, kind of like putting Iraq and 9/11 in the same bin. |
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| A very appropriate explanation. I only wish this "non-Islamic" issue got more airtime in the media to enlighten the ignoramuses in this country. Too many people consider Iran an Islamic country. |
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In a shocking and unprecedented interview, directly exposing the inhumanity of Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei's religious regime in Iran, a serving member of the paramilitary Basiji militia has told this reporter of his role in suppressing opposition street protests in recent weeks. He has also detailed aspects of his earlier service in the force, including his enforced participation in the rape of young Iranian girls prior to their execution. The interview took place by telephone, and on condition of anonymity. It was arranged by a reliable source whose identity can also not be revealed. Founded by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini in 1979 as a "people's militia," the volunteer Basiji force is subordinate to the Iranian Revolutionary Guards and intensely loyal to Khomeini's successor, Khamenei. The Basiji member, who is married with children, spoke soon after his release by the Iranian authorities from detention. He had been held for the "crime" of having set free two Iranian teenagers - a 13-year-old boy and a 15-year-old girl - who had been arrested during the disturbances that have followed the disputed June presidential elections. "There have been many other police and members of the security forces arrested because they have shown leniency toward the protesters out on the streets, or released them from custody without consulting our superiors," he said. He pinned the blame for much of the most ruthless violence employed by the Iranian security apparatus against opposition protesters on what he called "imported security forces" - recruits, as young as 14 and 15, he said, who have been brought from small villages into the bigger cities where the protests have been centered. "Fourteen and 15-year old boys are given so much power, which I am sorry to say they have abused," he said. "These kids do anything they please - forcing people to empty out their wallets, taking whatever they want from stores without paying, and touching young women inappropriately. The girls are so frightened that they remain quiet and let them do what they want." These youngsters, and other "plainclothes vigilantes," were committing most of the crimes in the names of the regime, he said. Asked about his own role in the brutal crackdowns on the protesters, whether he had been beaten demonstrators and whether he regretted his actions, he answered evasively. "I did not attack any of the rioters - and even if I had, it is my duty to follow orders," he began. "I don't have any regrets," he went on, "except for when I worked as a prison guard during my adolescence." Explaining how he had come to join the volunteer Basiji forces, he said his mother had taken him to them. When he was 16, "my mother took me to a Basiji station and begged them to take me under their wing because I had no one and nothing foreseeable in my future. My father was martyred during the war in Iraq and she did not want me to get hooked on drugs and become a street thug. I had no choice," he said. He said he had been a highly regarded member of the force, and had so "impressed my superiors" that, at 18, "I was given the 'honor' to temporarily marry young girls before they were sentenced to death." In the Islamic Republic it is illegal to execute a young woman, regardless of her crime, if she is a virgin, he explained. Therefore a "wedding" ceremony is conducted the night before the execution: The young girl is forced to have sexual intercourse with a prison guard - essentially raped by her "husband." "I regret that, even though the marriages were legal," he said. Why the regret, if the marriages were "legal?" "Because," he went on, "I could tell that the girls were more afraid of their 'wedding' night than of the execution that awaited them in the morning. And they would always fight back, so we would have to put sleeping pills in their food. By morning the girls would have an empty expression; it seemed like they were ready or wanted to die. "I remember hearing them cry and scream after [the rape] was over," he said. "I will never forget how this one girl clawed at her own face and neck with her finger nails afterwards. She had deep scratches all over her." Returning to the events of the last few weeks, and his decision to set free the two teenage detainees, he said he "honestly" did not know why he had released them, a decision that led to his own arrest, "but I think it was because they were so young. They looked like children and I knew what would happen to them if they weren't released." He said that while a man is deemed "responsible for his own actions at 13, for a woman it is 9," and that it was freeing the 15-year-old girl that "really got me in trouble. "I was not mistreated or really interrogated while being detained," he said. "I was put in a tiny room and left alone. It was hard being isolated, so I spent most of my time praying and thinking about my wife and kids." |
that article was sad..
Jerusalem Post? Hmm, yeah they'll definitely NOT post anything that undermines Iran.
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| Originally posted by Lemonad Jerusalem Post? Hmm, yeah they'll definitely NOT post anything that undermines Iran. |
The cancer that is Islam has lasted for 30 years in Iran. It has brought us back to the stone age... I still dont undersstand what is so appealing about this death cult arab religion from the deserts of Saudi Arabia.
Iranians are Persian first. Most of them are secular and to be honest... the majority of them hate Islam becuase it is inherently an Arab way of life... and as many of you know, Persians really dont want to look or be seen as arabs. They have an older and more civilized culture and history, despite the Islamic conquest into Persia 1400 Years ago.
I hope to see the day that these mullahs are executed infront of the world by the people of Persia
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| Originally posted by Cyrus King The cancer that is Islam has lasted for 30 years in Iran. It has brought us back to the stone age... I still dont undersstand what is so appealing about this death cult arab religion from the deserts of Saudi Arabia. Iranians are Persian first. Most of them are secular and to be honest... the majority of them hate Islam becuase it is inherently an Arab way of life... and as many of you know, Persians really dont want to look or be seen as arabs. They have an older and more civilized culture and history, despite the Islamic conquest into Persia 1400 Years ago. I hope to see the day that these mullahs are executed infront of the world by the people of Persia |
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| Originally posted by shaolin_Z No matter how much you want to distance yourself from "Islam," Persians that is, doesn't mean you won't face ignorance and prejudice in the West. Islam is a religion, not an "Arab way of life." Being part Arab (Saudi and Iraqi) and part Persian, and an American living in the US, I don't really see anything inherently 'Arab' about (other than the fact that it's language of revelation and original [and only authoritative text] is Arabic, which the mullahs you detest are often not familiar with and in severe contradiction with 90% of the time). Other than Iraq, Iran is the only Shia'a strong hold and Shia'as in my experience tend to be more educated and informed about their religion than Sunnis. Yeah, a lot of Iranians are very [edit] secular [/edit], and I've hardly met any 'western' Iranians who're not, but this 'cancer' you refer to is organized religion... I don't see why that distinction is so hard for you (and others) to make. And organized religion in that part of the hemisphere in the form and fasion it's existed for the last century is a colonial Western import, not an Arab one. EDIT: And yes, I'm aware of the passive aggressive tension between Arabs and Persians, it's pretty amusing . |
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| Originally posted by Cyrus King Islam is inherently a culturally gulf arab ideology. Its attire, their views on women, their myths and their assumptions are all arabic. This religion has ravaged Persia. It was ARABS that invaded Persia... and with that, forced their new "religion" onto their conquerers. This religion was HEAVILY influenced by the culture where its creators came from. You cannot say it has NO culturally gulf arab influences. An example of its cancerous effect is the creation of wine. Before Islam, Wine was invented in Shiraz, consumed and loved. It was so profound in the culture that paintings depticing its consumtion and poems were constantly written about it. When Islam came, they removed this from the Persian culture. Those filthy pieces of shit. THey said it was "haram" Shiraz, the place where the best grapes in the world grew, was ravaged. Wine then made its way to Europe where the french and Romans took advantage of it. This is one example. |
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| Originally posted by Cyrus King Wherever Islam goes,,, everything turns to shit |
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| Originally posted by shaolin_Z I'm aware of your dislike for religion in general and your pride in being Persian and fondness for Persian culture, and obviously, you're very resentful of "Islam" and it's influence of Irani culture. But... ...do you honestly believe such a ridiculous statement or you really that unaware of advances Muslim scholars made to the arts and sciences (pretty significant and foundational groundwork mind you) and how much knowledge of the past (like several Greek texts for example) has been preserved solely because of them when the church wanted nothing better than to burn all that knowledge away? Not to mention their influence on the Renaissance etc, and amalgamating various knowledge and art from various culutres (from India to Spain). Come on now. Clearly it's not as "backward" as you'd like to think, Islam or Arab culture. Not historically anyways, quite the opposite. |
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| Originally posted by Cyrus King Thats after the fact they invaded. Persia was doing very well and was very expressive in the arts and poetry and advances in sciences and other things before Islam came. Im sure they would have exceeded way past their islamic achievements if they were not conquered. This is just my opinion. Islam is the worst thing that happened to Persia. They have tried to remove our cultural norms like our Nowrooz tradition (even making some persians include the quran in the table that celebrates the beginning of spring), change our language, make us wear arab attire.. but in the end, it still hasnt worked. If you look at every single muslim nation, neighborhood within cities throughout the world, communitities.. they are all poor and feverently religius. Its not a coincidence that all muslim nations are ass backwards. Although i detest organized religion as a whole, Christians and Jews have evolved to look at their religion as a faith and not a way of life. Most muslims see islam as a way of life and not a faith... and thats where the problem is. At least Turkey is the first to exemplify this.. and look how good theyre doing. Theres a reason why most persians really hate arabs... it started from the days of Islam's invasion. |
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| Originally posted by shaolin_Z I still don't understand how you can think "Islam" itself (as opposed to organized of today) is ass backwards. You're Persian and by virtue of that I'm guessing familiar enough with Persian and Islamic history in general. So, the civilizations and Islamic society that gave us institutions such as public hospital, psychiatric hospital and public libraries, fields and branches of knowledge like astronomy, algebra and optics just to name a few, is somehow 'ass backwards'? I'm pretty sure you're aware that it was a Muslim scholar who pioneered the scientific method in the first place, Ibn al-Haytham, since he's Persian as I believe. Modern sewage drainage and canals are another ass backward innovation of Muslims societies that placed importance and emphasis on hygiene and cleanliness of living conditions. Europe would still be in the dark ages and you would associate and of the progress made post renaissance with anything western at all and certainly wouldn't think much of their culture if it weren't for everything they borrowed from Muslim scholars, artists and poets in Spain and Sicily and "Islam" in general. Another thing, women had no rights predating Islam, which gave them property rights, inheritance rights, the right to work, the right to education and the right to choose their spouse... something the West only realized in the last century. More ass backwards Islamic tradition eh? So, not acting like a drunken idiot with your friends on weekends, cheating on your wife, treating women like pieces of meat etc. are somehow ass backwards virtues too? Why don't you just admit you hate organized religion instead of bashing something else ignorantly, or resentfully out of pure misguided hatred? I find Arabs and their condescending racist rants against other cultures (including other non-Arab Muslims) equally annoying and unwarranted. I don't find similar misguided criticism from Persians to be very different either. You're proud of your Persian heritage, but you can't just leave it at that? |
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The Historical Letters From: Omar Ibn Al Khatab Khalifat Al Muslemin To: Yazdgird III Shahanshah of Persian Empire Yazdgird, I see not a fruitful future for you & your nation unless you accept my offer & commit Bei'at (Joining with Khalifat & bringing Islam). Once upon a time your land ruled half the known world but what has it come down to now? Your troops are defeated in all fronts & your nation is bound to collapse. I offer you a way to rescue yourself. Start praying to a mono God, a single union God, the only God who created everything in the universe. We bring you & the world his message, he who is the true God. Stop your Fire Worship, command your nation to stop their Fire Worship which is false; join us by joining the truth. Worship Allah O Akbar the only true God, The creator of universe. Worship to Allah & accept Islam as your salvation. End your Pagan ways & your false worships now & bring Islam so you can accept Allah O Akbar as your savior. By doing so, you will find the only way to your survival & peace for Persians. If you know what is best for Ajam (Arabic term for Persians meaning Retarded & Weird), you will choose this path. Bei'at is the only way. Allah O Akbar sign, Khalifat Al Muslemin Omar Ibn Al Khatab * * * * * * And here is Yazdgird III, famous respond to Omar: From: Shah of Shahs, Shah of Persia and Beyond, Shah of many Kingdoms, Shah of Aryans and Non Aryans, Shah of Persians and many other races as well as Arabs, Shahanshah of Persian Empire, Yazdgird III Sassanid To: Omar Ibn Al Khatab, Khalifat of Tazi (Persian term for Arabs, In the name of Ahura Mazda, creator of Life & Intelligence, You in your letter wrote that you want to direct us towards your God, Allah O Akbar, without having the true knowledge of who we are & what do we worship! It is amazing that you occupy the position of Khalifat (Ruler) of Arabs, yet your knowledge is the same as a lowly Arab rambler, roaming in deserts of Arabia, & same as a desert tribal man! "Little Man" ( mardak) you offer me to worship a united & single God without knowing that it has been thousands of years that Persians worship the mono God & they pray to him Five Times a day! In this land of culture & art this has been the normal path of life for years. When we established the tradition of hospitality & good deeds in the world & we waved the flag of "Good Thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds" in our hands, you & your ancestors were roaming the deserts, eating Lizards for you had nothing else to feed yourselves & burying your innocent daughters alive (an old Arab tradition, cause they preferred male children to female)! Tazi people have no value for God's creatures! You behead God's children, even the POWs (Prisoners of War), Rape Women, bury your daughters alive, attack the Caravans, mass murder, kidnap people's wives & steal their property! Your hearts are made of stone, we condemn all these Evil which you do. How can you teach us Godly Ways when you commit these action? You tell me to stop my Fire Worship! Us, Persians see the Love of Creator & power of inventor in the light of Sun & warmth of Fire. Lights & Warmth of the Sun & Fire makes us see the light of truth & warmens our hearts to the creator & to one another. It helps us to be kind to one another, it enlightens us & makes us to keep Mazda's Flame, alive in our hearts. Our lord is Ahura Mazda & it is strange that you people also, just discovered him & named him Allah O Akbar! But we are not the same as you, we are not in the same level as you. We help other human being, we spread love among humanity, we spread Good throughout the Earth, we have been spreading our culture but in respect for other cultures throughout the whole world for thousands of years, yet you in the name of Allah invade other men's land! You mass murder the people, create famine, fear & poverty for others, you create Evil in the name of Allah. who is responsible for all this catastrophe? Is it Allah who commands you to murder, pillage & to destroy? Is it you the followers of Allah who do this in his name? Or Is it both? You have risen from heat of the deserts & burnt out infertile lands with no resources, you want to teach people the love of God by your military campaigns & the power of your Swords! You are Desert Savages, yet you want to teach Urban people like us who lived in the cities for thousands of years, the love of God! We have thousands of years of culture behind us, a powerful tool indeed! Tell us? With all your military campaigns, barbarianism, murder & pillage in the name of Allah O Akbar, what have you taught to this Muslim Army? What knowledge have you taught the Muslim that you also insist on teaching it to non Muslim? What culture have you learned from your Allah, now that you want to force-teach it to others? Alas, Oh Alas...... that today our Persian Armies of Ahura have been defeated from your recently Allah Worshiping Armies; Now, our people have to worship the same God, the same Five times a day, but forced by the sword to call him Allah & pray to him in Arabic, cause your Allah only understands Arabic! I suggest, you & your gang of bandits pack up & move back to your deserts where they are used to live. Take them back where they used to the burning heat of the sun, tribal life, eating Lizards & drinking Camel Milk. I forbid you to let your band of thieves loose in our fertile lands, civilized cities & our glorious nation. Don't turn these "beasts with hearts of stone" loose, to mass murder our people, kidnap our women & children, rape our wives & send our daughters to Mecca as slaves! Don't let them do these crimes in the name of Allah O Akbar, put a stop to your criminal behavior. Aryans are forgiving, warm, hospitable, & decent people and everywhere they went, they have spread seeds of friendship, love, knowledge & truth; therefore, they shall not punish you & your people for your pirate ways & criminal acts. I beg you to remain with your Allah O Akbar in your deserts & do not move close to our civilized cities, for your believes are "Much Fearful" & your behavior is "Most Barbaric"! sign, Yazdgird III Sassanid * * * * * |
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| Originally posted by Cyrus King we can sit here for ages listing the achievements of religious civilizations. However, this wont change my opinion about the inhereently bakcwards nature of its ideology on people. It wasnt ISLAM that made those achievements,.. the scripts in islam didnt encourage or teach someone to go discover alcohol or create alegbra, also, its funny how most of these achievements were made within the persian comunity during history. Islam, like many religions, creates boundaries. Islam specifcally created boundaries with respect to expression. It is the main reason why paintings depicting beautiful women or landscapes or wine and food were REMOVED from the persian culture and replaced with SHITTY abstract islamic art. Its such a crock of shit. These muslims have an ass backwards mentality when they invaded Persia. HERE ARE THE HISTORICAL LETTERS THAT BEGAN THE DOWNFALL OF PERSIA FROM THE DEATH CULT MUSLIM HORDES Regardless, this religion has ravaged what COULD HAVE BEEN WINE, ART, SCULPTURE, PHILOSOHY, the list goes on When I went to Turkey, I visited Saint Sophia, a huge Church turned into a mosque after islam came in. What i saw were HUGE pictures of Angels that were covered up by UGLY muslim art becuase it was a sin to recreate gods creations in paintings or other expressions. What a stupid idiotic way of thinking. These people are Animals. They come from the desert as my ancestor king states in that letter. They have brought nothing but archaic ideology and traditions that still have a hard time completly fitting into our society. In 1979 Islam once again Invaded Persia. We are in the dark ages once again. But we will overcome this arab death cult and will destroy these people who are trying once again to convert us into arab-muslims. |
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| Originally posted by Cyrus King It wasnt ISLAM that made those achievements,.. the scripts in islam didnt encourage or teach someone to go discover alcohol or create alegbra, |
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