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Sweetwater Now Offering Focal

I noticed in the Summer gear catalog that I just received yesterday, they are now offering Focal studio monitors. Quite nice since I like to think that Sweetwater only sells products that are "well thought out".

They sure are hyping up the Twin6 BEs:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Twin6Be/

Probably a good thing for them to get hooked up with a mainstream distributor. At least it wasn't GC.

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Originally posted by Eric J Probably a good thing for them to get hooked up with a mainstream distributor. At least it wasn't GC.

How's your quest to acquire a MOTU 2408 and Apogee Mini-DAC going?

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Originally posted by alanzo How's your quest to acquire a MOTU 2408 and Apogee Mini-DAC going?

Quite good. I'm just now fixing to order the 2408 at the end of this week. I have been doing some research and decided to pick up a Rosetta 200 instead of the Mini Dac. I figure I'd rather wait a bit longer and get the Rosetta, so then I also have 2 channels of A/D in addition to the D/A.

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Originally posted by Eric J Quite good. I'm just now fixing to order the 2408 at the end of this week. I have been doing some research and decided to pick up a Rosetta 200 instead of the Mini Dac. I figure I'd rather wait a bit longer and get the Rosetta, so then I also have 2 channels of A/D in addition to the D/A.

Nice. I may have gotten something like that, but Apogee doesn't support Windows very well. Be weary, though. I know that in Cubase under windows, you can only select a single audio interface. So I'm not sure if you'll be able to use both the MOTU 24io and the Rosette since they'll use different drivers... or whatever the Mac equivilent of drivers is.

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Originally posted by alanzo Nice. I may have gotten something like that, but Apogee doesn't support Windows very well. Be weary, though. I know that in Cubase under windows, you can only select a single audio interface. So I'm not sure if you'll be able to use both the MOTU 24io and the Rosette since they'll use different drivers... or whatever the Mac equivilent of drivers is.

Well, actually you can use multiple audio devices in Mac Os X. You can create an "aggregate" audio device, which combines one or more audio devices into a single unit.

However, I wont be using it set up that way. The plan is to have the 2408 connected to my PCI-424 card (as the 24 I/O is now), so that the Mac will only be aware of the 2408. Then I'm going to go S/PDIF or Optical out from the 2408 into the Rosetta, then out from the Rosetta into the monitors.

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Originally posted by Eric J Well, actually you can use multiple audio devices in Mac Os X. You can create an "aggregate" audio device, which combines one or more audio devices into a single unit. However, I wont be using it set up that way. The plan is to have the 2408 connected to my PCI-424 card (as the 24 I/O is now), so that the Mac will only be aware of the 2408. Then I'm going to go S/PDIF or Optical out from the 2408 into the Rosetta, then out from the Rosetta into the monitors.

What about for the inputs on the Rosetta?

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Originally posted by alanzo What about for the inputs on the Rosetta?

Just use Analog In on the Rosetta. Right now I only have one outboard analog source, and I pretty much never use it so it is not a major concern. If I end up with more analog inputs, I can always use a patchbay.

Honestly, I just want to have the option open for 2 channels of Analog In, just in case I decide to pick up an analog source. If I were to pick one up, it'd be something vintage or vintage recreation, such as a real J8 ($$$), Modern Moog, or similar. It is highly doubtful that it would be anytime soon and there is always the option of picking up a good front end preamp with digital outs.

Really, I am quite happy with my vintage software emulations, so I do not anticipate getting back to the hardware route anytime soon, but it'll be nice to have the option there just in case I changed my mind in the future.

I was actually toying with going all out and picking up a UA 2192. However, at $3,000 I figured that if I was going to go that route, I might as well ditch the MOTU/Apogee combo altogether and shell out for the Aurora 8. Getting the MOTU/Rosetta combo provides me with high quality D/A for a "reasonable" price, and I wont be regretting the purchase 3 years down the line thinking that I could have gotten something better for what I needed.

You kinda sound like you're going down the slippery slope of analog <=> digital converters. Be careful... there really isn't *that* much of a difference. One thing about the Mini-DAC that I really like is the instant access to a level knob. Don't think I'd be able to go on without it after getting so used to its convenience.

I hear you. That's why i'm going with the Rosetta and not something more expensive. Its just enough to be a significant upgrade without getting into that "diminishing returns" category. I can apply volume attenuation with a passive attenuator between the Rosetta and the monitors. Right now its the Central Station, but eventually, I may replace the CS with a Dangerous Music Monitor ST. Several people on GS are using the Rosetta PCS/DMST combo without complaint, so that's about the best advice I can get.

Wow, you're thinking $1800 for a monitor volume control?

I would have to have everything else perfect for me to consider that kind of outlay for that function. It's right at the edge of the cost vs diminishing return precipice for me. I don't think the DMST will offer a signifigant improvement audio quality over the CS for the extra $1500.

You could always go Lavry Black/Mytek/auraura for the sort of money you're talking about but I'm sure you've already had that conversation a dozen times.

I would certainly buy the 2408 second hand - as someone who provided tech support for them (albeit a few years ago) the used ones are not liekly to be screwed and as they were the most popular from the motu range there's loads of them always coming up on craigs list and ebay for seriously cheap.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Wow, you're thinking $1800 for a monitor volume control? I would have to have everything else perfect for me to consider that kind of outlay for that function. It's right at the edge of the cost vs diminishing return precipice for me. I don't think the DMST will offer a signifigant improvement audio quality over the CS for the extra $1500.

Well, maybe I misspoke there a little bit. That kind of upgrade would be WAY, WAY down the line. I only mentioned it because it would be the next logical step up from by current monitoring solution. There is a LOT of other things I would upgrade first, including buying a shit ton of software.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN You could always go Lavry Black/Mytek/auraura for the sort of money you're talking about but I'm sure you've already had that conversation a dozen times.

Yeah, the thing is that I really want to have the option of at least 2 channels of high quality A/D in addition to the quality D/A. The MOTU converters arent bad, but they definitely fall into the "minimum quality" category. I did look into the Lavry Black, Benchmark and the Mytek solutions, but, obviously those are all D/A only.

I looked at things like the UA 2192 as alternatives, but its twice as expensive as the Rosetta 200. If you have suggestions on alternatives to the Rosetta 200 that offer similar features, I'd be happy to listen.

Having 2 channels of HQ A/D gives me options. On the production side, I can record outboard hardware if needed. On the non-production side, I've already been in the process of recording my vinyl collection.

What I do NOT want to do is get something that is a "stop-gap." I already played that game with my monitors and my computer. When I finally shelled out for the Mac Pro, I knew that I would never again question my choice of hardware and DAW software. When I shelled out for the Focal Twins, I knew I would never again question my choice of near field monitors.

I want to make that same purchase decision with my D/A converters. When I bought my Focals, I knew that a D/A upgrade was going to be ultimately necessary to get the full benefit of such high quality monitors. The Apogee fufills all my needs for high quality D/A AND A/D without breaking the bank of more expensive solutions.

The next step is going to be shelling out for some decent room treatment. I don't want to go crazy with it, but I could stand to spend a grand or so on some treatment. My room is oddly shaped, so I'm at least working with that advantage.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN I would certainly buy the 2408 second hand - as someone who provided tech support for them (albeit a few years ago) the used ones are not liekly to be screwed and as they were the most popular from the motu range there's loads of them always coming up on craigs list and ebay for seriously cheap.

Yeah, I'll look into it, but honestly, I had ALWAYS had bad luck with buying used gear. Cars, computers, even refurbished always cause me problems.

BTW--My 24 I/O will be up for sale in the next week or two after I get the 2408, so if you are interested, let me know before I put it up on eBay. You'll need a PCI-324 or PCI-424 card to make it work.

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Originally posted by Eric J Well, maybe I misspoke there a little bit. That kind of upgrade would be WAY, WAY down the line. I only mentioned it because it would be the next logical step up from by current monitoring solution. There is a LOT of other things I would upgrade first, including buying a shit ton of software.

Fair enough - I thought this was your next purchase and I know it's a big outlay for a very good but incredibly specific piece of kit.

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Originally posted by Eric J Yeah, the thing is that I really want to have the option of at least 2 channels of high quality A/D in addition to the quality D/A. The MOTU converters arent bad, but they definitely fall into the "minimum quality" category. I did look into the Lavry Black, Benchmark and the Mytek solutions, but, obviously those are all D/A only.

Bear in mind the Lavry Blacks are available as either a DA or as a AD.

quote:

Originally posted by Eric J I looked at things like the UA 2192 as alternatives, but its twice as expensive as the Rosetta 200. If you have suggestions on alternatives to the Rosetta 200 that offer similar features, I'd be happy to listen.

The UA is great but Ive mixed things about their mic pre's on certain models ans it's not worth the extra over the rosetta which is superb (as long as you don;t mind the very minor apogee color - which a lot of people respect actually like).

quote:

Originally posted by Eric J Having 2 channels of HQ A/D gives me options. On the production side, I can record outboard hardware if needed. On the non-production side, I've already been in the process of recording my vinyl collection. What I do NOT want to do is get something that is a "stop-gap." I already played that game with my monitors and my computer. When I finally shelled out for the Mac Pro, I knew that I would never again question my choice of hardware and DAW software. When I shelled out for the Focal Twins, I knew I would never again question my choice of near field monitors.

That is a great way to buy, that way you only ever have to upgrade when someone brings out a new industry changing design/model. You don;t go through all that buying sub par stuff then buying better stuff then buying the stuff you should have in the process and not wasted the money.

quote:

Originally posted by Eric J I want to make that same purchase decision with my D/A converters. When I bought my Focals, I knew that a D/A upgrade was going to be ultimately necessary to get the full benefit of such high quality monitors. The Apogee fufills all my needs for high quality D/A AND A/D without breaking the bank of more expensive solutions. The next step is going to be shelling out for some decent room treatment. I don't want to go crazy with it, but I could stand to spend a grand or so on some treatment. My room is oddly shaped, so I'm at least working with that advantage.

It seems like you' already have your perfect solution - the only thing you might want to consider is two of the lavry blacks (one in, one out) and you could just buy one for the time being until you have the cash for the second. The A/D might be overkill in terms of inputs but you never know.

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Originally posted by Eric J Yeah, I'll look into it, but honestly, I had ALWAYS had bad luck with buying used gear. Cars, computers, even refurbished always cause me problems. BTW--My 24 I/O will be up for sale in the next week or two after I get the 2408, so if you are interested, let me know before I put it up on eBay. You'll need a PCI-324 or PCI-424 card to make it work.

That's strange - I've bought so much gear over ebay and a small amount from craigs list and never had a single problem. in fact the only piece of kit I bought new were my monitors. caigs list I'm more worried about and if i get the slightest bad feeling from the seller I walk away, but ebay has been flawless.

If you do go the motu route, I would really look in to second hand - honestly I saw maybe only a handfull come back with a problem over a 3 year period of tech/repair work, and even then it was just a very rare compnonet failure or quite obvious user damage.

I just stay away from the people who try to seel kit by saying thisngs like "not sure if it works, no time to test it" or "i don't know anything about music equipment and I'm selling this becuase I found it in my loft" or people who just give manufacturers info for detail on the product. You can tell if there's an issue by how they post it and if they lie, at least with ebay , you get your money back.

The cool thing with ebay now, id for most circumstances they don't release the funds until you leave feedback. Just got a Audiofire (which I have to say is quite great) and I got to test it fully before leaving feedback and therefore releasing the funds.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Bear in mind the Lavry Blacks are available as either a DA or as a AD.

Agreed, but then I have to buy two of them (one AD, one DA), and that would end up costing more than the single Rosetta unit.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN The UA is great but Ive mixed things about their mic pre's on certain models ans it's not worth the extra over the rosetta which is superb (as long as you don;t mind the very minor apogee color - which a lot of people respect actually like).

Yeah, that is what I have heard. There is SO much personal preference when purchasing at this level and the people are SO passionate about why their preference is better. Some of the arguments, especially on GS, can get pretty heated. It seems like the cooler heads all say the same thing: For the most part, at the > $2,000 level, they are ALL great units, its just about personal preference. In addition, so many people who know that level of gear are working with live instruments and have recording needs that FAR surpass what I do. As an electronic musician who is software based, I have the luxury of not having to worry about preamp quality, noise floors, and all that good stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN That is a great way to buy, that way you only ever have to upgrade when someone brings out a new industry changing design/model. You don;t go through all that buying sub par stuff then buying better stuff then buying the stuff you should have in the process and not wasted the money.

Agreed, I'm just lucky enough to be in the position to be able to afford it. Unfortunately, I have spent a lot more money in the process than I could have had I known then what I know now. But, you know, live and learn.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN It seems like you' already have your perfect solution - the only thing you might want to consider is two of the lavry blacks (one in, one out) and you could just buy one for the time being until you have the cash for the second. The A/D might be overkill in terms of inputs but you never know.

Yeah, but its just the having to buy two $1,000 devices, instead of one device at $1,500 or so. Plus the Rosetta is all in one unit, rack mountable, etc.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN That's strange - I've bought so much gear over ebay and a small amount from craigs list and never had a single problem. in fact the only piece of kit I bought new were my monitors. caigs list I'm more worried about and if i get the slightest bad feeling from the seller I walk away, but ebay has been flawless. If you do go the motu route, I would really look in to second hand - honestly I saw maybe only a handfull come back with a problem over a 3 year period of tech/repair work, and even then it was just a very rare compnonet failure or quite obvious user damage. I just stay away from the people who try to seel kit by saying thisngs like "not sure if it works, no time to test it" or "i don't know anything about music equipment and I'm selling this becuase I found it in my loft" or people who just give manufacturers info for detail on the product. You can tell if there's an issue by how they post it and if they lie, at least with ebay , you get your money back. The cool thing with ebay now, id for most circumstances they don't release the funds until you leave feedback. Just got a Audiofire (which I have to say is quite great) and I got to test it fully before leaving feedback and therefore releasing the funds.

You make a good point here, if I find a good deal, I may do it. If like to have a few extra hundred to put toward the Rosetta, as I'll be pretty close once I get the 24 I/O sold. I just get SO nervous when dealing on eBay. I do it a fair bit, but it still makes me nervous.

You'll be happy with the rosetta Eric. You know I had same setup as you, except dieferent monitors and instead of using motu i used rme multiface. I bypassed the converters on the rme and used the rosetta's.. Just like what you're about to do. In fact we had that conversation before.. I also thought about lavry black or blue, but I liked the sound of the apogee.. Rosetta was cheaper than two lavry black or one lavry blue with ad/da in the end.. Anyways enjoy it if you get it.. I have sold my rosetta since I had some financial trubbles, and now back to rme and let me tell you, as soon as I get some money I got to get rosetta back.

Sweet! Its good to get a thumbs up from a satisfied user. I'm excited to get it.

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