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another sidechain question

I see a lot of people use sidechain with the bass and kick ,but im sure there are other uses for it like the pad and the lead.

im sure there may be some posts on this in the past but could not find any but do you guys use sidechain to make the lead more prominent when it shares the same frequencies with the kick just curious. maybe you guys could post some samples for example. thanks.

There are a few kylie minogue tracks where ive noticed the lead falls out when the vox come in, very subtly though, proffessionally mixed

yes sidechaing has many uses its a great tool/method off making things work and can be used to drive the track along or to build things up.

i write my own sidchain patterns rather then using the compressors it gives me more control

Lately I've been sidechaining leads. A really low ratio, and fast release, so it's really only touching the very front end of the sound when the lead is playing on the beat. It's not really noticeable sidechaining, but cleans things up a little. I'm still experimenting though, so I may go away from this technique soon!

After the "Sean Tyas tips" thread I've also gone with using an extremely short hihat sample as the sidechain trigger, and so far I'm liking the results. I send it to the various instruments I'm sidechaining, and adjust the ratios and release times for each - it is easier to get the release timing right for each instrument, using an extremely short trigger.

There a lot of sidechained pads in the trance world right now...

Something I havent tried but Ive heard is good is sidechaining your percs to the kick like you would bass. Creates more space and add's some energy and groove. The Sean Tyas tip thread sounds interesting, will look for that. Is that from his appearance at the itunes shop?

It was in the "production questions for Sean Tyas" thread. Last post in that thread was July 3rd.

yeah i found it thanks man.

Sidechained pads sound ace IMO. Also sidechained strings are great. Its a very trance sound though, it definately marks something out as being big and uplifting.

The overuse of sidechain has completely ruined so many tracks it's not even funny anymore. I'd personally like to meet and thank the person who initially thought it would be a good idea.

Can't even blame Eric Prydz as call on me had every part individually faded rather than sidechained... imagine how long that would have taken!

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Originally posted by Luke Terry Can't even blame Eric Prydz as call on me had every part individually faded rather than sidechained... imagine how long that would have taken!

With fader automation or manual fader riding (actually, the latter doesn't make much sense these days, especially for dance styles). If it's fader automation, I'd be amazed if he didn't just copy and paste the automation once he was happy with the curve for one beat/bar. Pointless waste of time to draw in a whole song of automation manually.

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery The overuse of sidechain has completely ruined so many tracks it's not even funny anymore. I'd personally like to meet and thank the person who initially thought it would be a good idea.

I kind of agree. I think the problem occurred when it became a style instead of a technique. As I'm sure many do I tend to use it to clean things up or in a subtle way to add rhythm. Apart from one of my tracks 'Facing South' where I whored the shit out of it, but I'd only just figured it out so can be forgiven.....

Using different sounds for the trigger can have interesting results.

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Originally posted by Prototrance I kind of agree. I think the problem occurred when it became a style instead of a technique.

I still use sidechaining quite often, but certainly not because it's a style.

I use sidechain in about all my tracks, it doesnt mean you can hear that its used.

I hope it's not going to go like the off beat bassline where everyone will slate it.

I'll use it if i need to and the same as if a off beat bassline fits the track then so be it.

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Originally posted by derail With fader automation or manual fader riding (actually, the latter doesn't make much sense these days, especially for dance styles). If it's fader automation, I'd be amazed if he didn't just copy and paste the automation once he was happy with the curve for one beat/bar. Pointless waste of time to draw in a whole song of automation manually.

I've been told by a very well informed and close source that each part was externally edited manually

quote:

Originally posted by Luke Terry I've been told by a very well informed and close source that each part was externally edited manually

Odd. That's just killing time for the sake of killing time. That'd be like loading in the same kick sample for every single beat, rather than just quickly copying and pasting, and arranging the kicks from there. Exact same result, but one approach will take hours while the other will take a minute.

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Originally posted by Subtle I use sidechain in about all my tracks, it doesnt mean you can hear that its used.

Yeah, but I'm talking about the ridiculously overdone pumping sound.

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Originally posted by derail it is easier to get the release timing right for each instrument, using an extremely short trigger.

Do you find that sounding like a gate effect?

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Originally posted by Acton I still use sidechaining quite often, but certainly not because it's a style.

There seems to be a lot of producers who think dance music needs to have that sidechained 'whoop whoop' feel to every single sound. Thats what I was referring to, it seems to have become a style of it's own rather than a technique. I think the best example has to be P.A.F.F - 'From king to finch'. I think everything is sidechained in this, sounds bloody awful. The mastering is crap too, so compressed after the breakdown you lose a lot of the main melody.

Congrats' on the release by the way

I love sidechaining.

I have an idea for you, if your using FL, you can create your own multiband side chain. Take a short kick sample, assign it to say 4 different mixer channels. In each mixer channel you're going to put one BP filter, one compressor and one peak controller.

Then name a fifth mixer channel (depending on how many mixer channels you'd want to assign the kick to) "sidechain" or something like that, and put a parametric EQ in that.

Now, you're going to want to take whatever kick you're using and using the spectroman you're going to find 4 key frequencies (or however many channels you assigned the kick to), that the kick is using. Usually around 60 hz, 200 hz, 800 hz and 3000 hz.

Now, set the BP filters on the 4 mixer channels (again, if that's how many you're using) to those frequencies, with one freq for each filter ofc.

And now you will want to compress that signal, or it will be too low to be used practically. Set the ratio low, and turn the gain up until you peak at just before 0 dB _on the lowest frequency mixer channel_. After you've done that you want to set the exact same setting on all the other 3 channels (see before ;P). You don't want all of them to peak at 0 dB, you just want them to be relative to each other before and after the compression. And, the more you compress, the more significant the sidechaining will be.

After that. One your 'sidechain'-channels, you want to set the parametric EQ on the same frequencies. Now, assign each peak controller to their corresponding frequency, set the base to 50 %, and the vol to anything minus (but the same for all of them, the more negative the more sidechain).

And voila. Multiband sidechain. It sounds softer, it's more subtle, and it just makes the kick that much more powerful.

You can ofc do this with anything else, have a vocal instead of the kick and then assign a lead to your sidechain-channel, should bring the vocal way up above the lead without the lead being any less powerful.

i agree it may be an over used effect but with some trial and error you can figure out lots of endless possibilities of stuff you could use it for.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox Do you find that sounding like a gate effect?

No, not any more than sidechaining using the original kick. I still set the release time to where I want it, it's not like the volume drops just for the duration of the short sample.

Yesterday I also tried moving the short sidechain trigger to just before the kick. Since compressors don't react instantly, I figured I might try moving the trigger just a little before the kick. A little bit of experimentation, moving it backwards and forwards to find the sweet spot, and voila! The kick's initial transient comes through a lot more cleanly.

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Originally posted by Acton I still use sidechaining quite often, but certainly not because it's a style.

How long you been producing now mate?

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