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-- Preventing a live set recording from clipping
Preventing a live set recording from clipping
I'm using Sonysound forge 9, is there a way?
As long as you set your levels correctly on your mixer and the computer's input level, you shouldn't have any problems getting a good sounding mix.
Anything you play shouldn't have any clipping. Ie, the sources should be mastered well enough.
The problem is in you levels. Just make sure that you don't set the levels so they are in the red on the mixer.
And you can turn the recording volume down a few dB, and then master the mix afterward (just some compression and limiting.)
It's not quite as easy as these chaps are making out...
Most soundcards have no headroom, i.e. they clip as soon as you hit 0dB. Even just a couple of peaks over this can spoil an otherwise perfect mix.
To make sure there's no chance of clipping, you actually need to stay well below the red: I usually set my levels to -6dB when I'm recording at home. This allows for increases in volume when you layer two tracks together, boost a bit of eq, apply an effect or whatever, and just for general higher peaks in the track - which can happen even with really well mastered tracks if you've got any analogue parts in your setup because the filters and amplifiers are never perfectly linear.
If by "live" you mean in a club, it's made even harder by nearly every DJ ragging systems into the red, so you often can't get the level down to your -6dB without people noticing quite a drop in volume (which is rarely received well).
If you're looking at recording live sets in a club, I'd consider one of the portable recorders on the market. I'm sure some of them must give enough headroom for you to still record a mix running into the red without too much trouble, but I'm afraid I don't know which.
As Mr PutBoy says, you'll want to do a bit of post processing to bring the level back up after recording. I'm quite lazy about it now and just normalise then put a limiter on it: threshold to 0dB, then slowly increase the pre gain until it starts to sound a little bit shit, then pull it back down a bit - job done.
Otherwise, if you want the expensive-but-best solution, buy a limiter and stick that between the mixer and your soundcard. Solves the problem both at home and in a club, but it's also more to lug around if you're taking it to a club.
compressor and limiter! 
Compressor and limiter aren't really the solution for recording a live set, as stu says, give yourself some headroom before recording by gain staging properly.
90% of consumer mixers sound horrible when redlined so firstly avoid doing it on the individual channel gains . Then make sure the master is not clipping and again test with with two tracks in the mix so you can tell if it's clipping with layered tracks.
Then adjust those two to make sure your not coming in too hot to your soundcard. I never let it go above -3db. not a big deal but -6 might a bit overkill IMO as if you want it back up to close to 0db after some offline processing (because you are increasing the gain and therefore the relative noise so the more you have to it the worse the noise is etc.).
as stu and rann said, you need to make sure your levels are set properly
i myself like to lower the input on the soundcard waaay down so your peaks in the recording hit around -6db
with a pioneer mixer you can run into 2 reds, i like to stay within that sweet spot when i'm recording
although when i record live i use my minidisc player that has a limiter on it to prevent digital clipping and master it after
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Tony Morello with a pioneer mixer you can run into 2 reds, i like to stay within that sweet spot when i'm recording |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Tony Morello although when i record live i use my minidisc player that has a limiter on it to prevent digital clipping and master it after |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by DJ RANN Compressor and limiter aren't really the solution for recording a live set, as stu says, give yourself some headroom before recording by gain staging properly. 90% of consumer mixers sound horrible when redlined so firstly avoid doing it on the individual channel gains . Then make sure the master is not clipping and again test with with two tracks in the mix so you can tell if it's clipping with layered tracks. Then adjust those two to make sure your not coming in too hot to your soundcard. I never let it go above -3db. not a big deal but -6 might a bit overkill IMO as if you want it back up to close to 0db after some offline processing (because you are increasing the gain and therefore the relative noise so the more you have to it the worse the noise is etc.). |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by DJ RANN IMO, never redline a pioneer mixer EVER. They sound like utter shit when redlined. Redline a allen and heath or vestax (if you really must) but never a pioneer. I can't tell you how many live sound engineers that detest pioneer for that reason. |
I heard that in one superclub they have a sign in the dj booth that reads "In the red you're dead!!"
They should have these signs in every club.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by coroknight I heard that in one superclub they have a sign in the dj booth that reads "In the red you're dead!!" They should have these signs in every club. |
Does anyone know of a good link that talks about use of compressors and limiters?
Check the production studio - it comes up on a daily basis.
You could use it for recording live but unless you either know the house engineer and he's set up for live recording or are prepared to lug around large kit yourself, you're out of luck.
What I've done is as follows:-
1) Tonearm Weight - Make sure the weight on the tonearm is correctly set for the particular stylus & cart you use (look on google). What I did was turn back the weight until the tonearm would float in the air instead of rising all the way up or rising up and falling back down. When it is floating perfectly, turn the black dial part (with the numbers) so its set to 0, and then turn the weight round until its set to whatever it should be for your cart/stylus setup (for my ortofon concorde its set to 3 (3 grams).
2) Tonearm Height - Make sure the tonearm height is set correctly for the type of cart & stylus you use (a good way to do this is measure the height in mm (milimetres) with a ruler from one end of the tonearm (near the cart & stylus) and then take a measurement from the tonearm base (where you can adjust the tonearm height). The 2 measurements should be within 2mm of each other otherwise you have the tonearm set too high or too low, which can damage your records as the needle doesnt sit in perfectly in
3) Anti-skate - Set the correct anti-skate for your turntables. To do this I got a 1 sided vinyl, turned it over and put the needle on the ungrooved vinyl surface, and lifted the tonearm up and adjusted the anti-skate until it sits on the ungrooved vinyl without moving inwards or outwards. Then as a double check I span the record backwards and forwards with my hand to check that the tonearm didnt move at all. You know then when it is set correctly.
4) Record Input Level on Computer - I went into my vista setup and made sure that I set the auxiliary (I use aux input rather than line in) to 100% (slid it all the way to the right). If you need more info on how to set this let me know (PM me)
5) Channel level on mixer - I set the channel levels on my mixer to 10 (all the way to the top!)
6) EQ settings on mixer - I always leave this at default when ripping vinyls but as you mix you'll be adjusting them probably. But always try to set them back to default is my advice
6) Gain levels - What I do is when I am ripping (this will apply to you when your mixing though) I play through various parts of the vinyl and adjust the gain until the monitor level display on the mixer shows a MAXIMUM of one red bar (anything more than 1 red bar will create clipping/distortion) on your recording. Obviously every track will need an adjustment on the gain level and its a pain in the arse but since I've been doing this my rips when I have been digitizing my vinyls has been spot on! And it also means that a similar volume level will remain throughout your mix, rather than some tracks being a lot quieter than others.
7) Recording software - I recommend using Adobe Audition, Audacity or Soundforge to record your mixes, they work really well!
8) Normalizing the mix after recording - What I normally do when ripping vinyls is normalize the .wav file after to -0.5dB, I cant find the words to explain this in more detail at the moment (it is late!) but I'd recommend normalizing the recording level down slightly like this.
9) Cables - Make sure you get a half decent cable (RCA to Line Jack) or RCA to RCA. For ripping vinyls I use RCA to RCA and use the RCA inputs on the front input/output channel of my sound card (but not everyone has this obviously) so buy a decent RCA to Line In Jack cable and make sure you plug it in the line in on the back of your soundcard! ;-)
Hope this is of use 
Within Audacity, what setting do you guys set the Input Volume at?
The default is 1.0
Should I set it lower than this? And whats the benefit of doing this?
I ask because I set it to 0.8 the other day and my recording still clipped which meant that I still needed to keep the gains down on the mixer to prevent the clipping - so why set the Input Volume any lower than the default setting of 1.0 if careful gain use is still needed?
Cheers
Yeah I set the record volume to 100% and just make sure the gain isnt too high on the mixer
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Simcut Yeah I set the record volume to 100% and just make sure the gain isnt too high on the mixer |
what OS are you on? XP or Vista?
You need to go to the sound card mixer and set the record volume for the recording device (aux or line-in) to 100%, thats what I did, and then made sure the gain level was set correctly to stop clipping
Hmm that's strange... I'm using vista and at the moment I have to have the input level on the line in at about 10% so that it doesn't clip. This is with the gains set so that the channels don't go into red as well. If I was to raise the line in level any higher it just becomes total distortion.
Hmm that is odd :/ 10%? it should be more than that, very odd indeed :S
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