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Posted by Meitro on Jul-24-2009 00:38:

Politics and DJing...

Hey everyone... I'm new to this forum, but I'll keep the introduction short.

I'm 19 years old and am just starting to get booked regularily at clubs in my hometown. I love every second I'm on stage. The energy exchange between yourself and an audience is something truly powerful that I hope everyone on this forum will have the opportunity to experience many times in their lifetime.

Anyway, I have a question for those who have been doing this for a while: How the fuck do you deal with the dickwad dj/promoter/agent?

I was an opening act for a headliner (whose name I wont bother mentioning). I promoted the hell out of this show, selling nearly 300 tickets (which is a sizeable contribution given the size of the venue being about 900) As I was driving down to the club before the show I get a call from my promoter saying that not only will my set be cut nearly in half, but the other local who was on after me was getting his set cut completely.

Do I have a right to be upset? What can I do to ensure this kind of thing wont happen again?

-M

Posted by orTof�nChiLd on Jul-24-2009 01:20:

you can shut your mouth and do wut your told

Posted by Meitro on Jul-24-2009 01:21:

quote:
Originally posted by orTof�nChiLd
you can shut your mouth and do wut your told

no u

Posted by mfitterer1 on Jul-24-2009 01:35:

Re: Politics and DJing...

Posted by woscar on Jul-24-2009 02:16:

They are paying you, not the other way around

Posted by mfitterer1 on Jul-24-2009 06:11:

quote:
Originally posted by woscar
They are paying you, not the other way around

Who the fuck djs for money anymore?! LOL

Posted by Tony Morello on Jul-24-2009 10:54:

who are you and where are you playing?

PM me

Posted by Demoted on Jul-24-2009 10:58:

Call him to discuss the matter personally. When the time arrives, walk in naked, with a a boner and smile.

Posted by DJ RANN on Jul-24-2009 20:00:

Re: Politics and DJing...

quote:
Originally posted by Meitro
Hey everyone... I'm new to this forum, but I'll keep the introduction short.

I'm 19 years old and am just starting to get booked regularily at clubs in my hometown. I love every second I'm on stage. The energy exchange between yourself and an audience is something truly powerful that I hope everyone on this forum will have the opportunity to experience many times in their lifetime.

Anyway, I have a question for those who have been doing this for a while: How the fuck do you deal with the dickwad dj/promoter/agent?

I was an opening act for a headliner (whose name I wont bother mentioning). I promoted the hell out of this show, selling nearly 300 tickets (which is a sizeable contribution given the size of the venue being about 900) As I was driving down to the club before the show I get a call from my promoter saying that not only will my set be cut nearly in half, but the other local who was on after me was getting his set cut completely.

Do I have a right to be upset? What can I do to ensure this kind of thing wont happen again?

-M

Well, some promoters take the piss, but you've got to realize that if the headliner threw a shit fit at the promoter because he wanted more time, who is his priority?

I wouldn't out anyone publicly as you don't know the full story and pissing people off is a sure fire way to get blacklisted in your town.

The best one I've seen was a mate was playing in a large bar/small club, with about 300 people there. The promoter tells him he has to cut his set down to half because the other DJ wants to get warmed up and have a longer set. This had happened the week before and he took it and said whatever. This time it happened, he grabbed all his shit and shouted "lets go" to the crowd and the 150 odd people he'd brought down all instantly left, leaving the bar really sparse which meant the atmophere died and all the other people left as well.

Next day he gets a call from the promoter offering him the permanent headline slot which he doesn't agree to until he's got double the paycheck.

Promoters pay attention to numbers more than anything else. You only power as a beginner is (sadly) how many people you bring when you play and how many they'll miss out on if you don't. Even in large clubs, if you can bring 300+ people to any club they'll give you a slot and pay you for it.

But whatever you do, don't let that promoter book you again without explaining the situation. You don;t have to bite his head off - be diplomatic about it - but just explain that you sold a lot of tickets and a huge crew of people were coming to see you (not his club or the other DJ's). Tell him you're building a following and a reputation which can't be done if he cuts you're playing time.

Posted by lenazi on Jul-24-2009 20:08:

people pay to see headliners, not opening acts. This situation might suck, but sometimes compromising and getting another gig is better than getting butthurt and never getting booked again.

this type of thing happens in more jobs than just dj'ing. it is all about assessing your priorities.

Posted by orTof�nChiLd on Jul-25-2009 03:03:

quote:
Originally posted by Demoted
Call him to discuss the matter personally. When the time arrives, walk in naked, with a a boner and smile.

good one

Posted by DiscoStew on Jul-25-2009 03:52:

Re: Politics and DJing...

quote:
Originally posted by Meitro
How the fuck do you deal with the dickwad dj/promoter/agent?

Is there any other type?

Posted by Stu Cox on Jul-25-2009 13:18:

Re: Politics and DJing...

Posted by Meitro on Jul-27-2009 02:12:

Yeah Stu, it was just so the headliner could get more time. I found out that it was the agent's work, he's apparently notorious for doing stuff like this.

Posted by DiscoStew on Jul-27-2009 02:39:

It's his show, dude. I'm sorry your set got cut short but the job of the opener is to set the headliner up for success. So, you have to cater to his needs. It really is all about him.

Be grateful for having had the opportunity to spin with him. You really should use this as an opportunity rather than being upset. You got a lot of people out to the event, which is a considerable value proposition that you can leverage to land a recurring gig if you sell it to the venue owner or promoter correctly.

Posted by mfitterer1 on Jul-27-2009 03:50:

And people wonder why they are so stuck in their progressions with their musical careers. Have some balls (and confidence) and tell the promoter he can find someone else.

If you allow yourself to be walked over, you will be. If you have the talent; and you don't allow your abilities to be taken advantage of, you will get what you want (and deserve).

This may mean you miss out on this particular gig but I guarantee you people will notice and it will set you up in the future.

Especially in the case where you are bringing a large amount of the people coming, this is inexplicable. If nobody cuts down the douchebags at the top, they stay at the top.

Posted by Dojomaster26 on Jul-27-2009 05:26:

quote:
Originally posted by mfitterer1
And people wonder why they are so stuck in their progressions with their musical careers. Have some balls (and confidence) and tell the promoter he can find someone else.

If you allow yourself to be walked over, you will be. If you have the talent; and you don't allow your abilities to be taken advantage of, you will get what you want (and deserve).

This may mean you miss out on this particular gig but I guarantee you people will notice and it will set you up in the future.

Especially in the case where you are bringing a large amount of the people coming, this is inexplicable. If nobody cuts down the douchebags at the top, they stay at the top.

It really depends on where you stand with your sense of pride: Do you just want to get as many gigs as possible, or do you want to be picky and risk not having gigs for stretches of time?

I wish the people with talent "get what they want and deserve" but real life isn't like that. The reality is: that promoter is the key to staying at that club, and you have to choose between kissing his ass or going elsewhere.

For some (many?) starting DJs, there might not be an "elsewhere" to go to. I had that problem when I started out in small town Hickory. There were three clubs open when I started: the established Top40 club (open since the 70s, disco lights and all), a gay dance club, and a new Top40 club. The established club came with an established resident DJ who also happened to co-own the place and didn't need anyone else. The demo that I handed to the gay club ended up in a black hole somewhere (I never heard back from them; my CD was probably in someone's trash can).

The new club? Shady as hell with these european dudes running the place. I'm pretty sure there were some "white" parties going on in the club, but nonetheless I took the opportunity that presented itself just for the place to play at. I ended up hating the experience of playing the worst Top40 to white trash on crappy Stanton dual CD-players and busted headphones for almost no money (good times), but it was the only thing I could get. Still, it was through this awful gig that I ended up meeting a prominent Top40/Wedding DJ in the area, and had the opportunity to shadow him at a couple of events. I also had a lot of confidence for dealing with people (I'd experienced the worst of the assholes day in and day out) and playing for a crowd, which helped me get my foot in the door of a much better club a year later.

So what is the lesson in all of this? Either kiss-ass, get treated like shit for a while, and learn to tough up to those guidos that want to hear "Poker Face" for the 3rd time, or stay in the bedroom. Unfortunately, you can't be really selective of gigs when it comes to starting out, since there are too many people that will just walk in and take your spot from you (for less pay, even!)

Posted by Yohan on Jul-27-2009 06:04:

you need to pick the battles you fight, but personally, i don't like being treated like dirt, regardless of how big my name is

Posted by Dojomaster26 on Jul-27-2009 06:19:

quote:
Originally posted by Yohan
you need to pick the battles you fight, but personally, i don't like being treated like dirt, regardless of how big my name is

I agree, and that's (partially) why I'm still rocking the bedroom.

There comes a point in every hobby where one needs to ask him/her self: Do I want to take this a step further, or just keep doing this for fun? Partially due to my current living situation, and partially due to a lack of time has make me decide to keep DJing as a fun hobby for the time being. If I wanted to, I could quit some of the things that I am doing now, build myself a website, and hit the streets to try and get gigs for myself, but for right now I have decided to just play for fun. I have what amounts to very expensive 'toys' because of this decision, but who knows what may happen a year or two from now

If you're going to take DJing seriously, then you will end up losing some of the fun in it, period. You have to deal with people in many states of inebriation, dodgy clubs, asshole promoters, etc. You probably have to bite the bullet and play what the crowd wants to hear at each particular venue. If you want to make money, then you'll have to switch to Top40, produce a track and promote it like a cheap Craigslist whore, or become a wedding DJ.

Good luck.

Posted by Stu Cox on Jul-27-2009 21:46:

quote:
Originally posted by Meitro
Yeah Stu, it was just so the headliner could get more time. I found out that it was the agent's work, he's apparently notorious for doing stuff like this.

Agents are a pain in the arse. We used to have all sorts of problems with all of them wanting their DJ to be headliner etc.

I wouldn't blame the promoter for that, it can be really hard to accommodate everything and obviously the headliner comes first. Although if he didn't thank you for the tickets you'd sold, or apologise for cutting your set then feel free to call him a twat.

Posted by Meitro on Jul-29-2009 21:09:

quote:
Originally posted by Stu Cox
Agents are a pain in the arse. We used to have all sorts of problems with all of them wanting their DJ to be headliner etc.

I wouldn't blame the promoter for that, it can be really hard to accommodate everything and obviously the headliner comes first. Although if he didn't thank you for the tickets you'd sold, or apologise for cutting your set then feel free to call him a twat.

I really don't blame him. He's a good guy. I just wont let it happen again. I think he knows this.

Anyway, thanks for the advice. I think as long as you show promoters respect then you can expect the same from them, and if they don't give you what you deserve, fuck em.

Posted by Allied Nations on Jul-30-2009 00:54:

Cry about it!

Hahaha no, don't do anything, just keep rocking it- you're still getting great exposure from the gig.

Just make sure the agreed fee stays the same- I doubt the headliners changed with the timeslot change so they have no right to shift your numbers around.

Posted by xiad on Jul-31-2009 23:15:

I'm with the crew that says "keep at it".

"When the goin' gets tough the tough get goin'". You GOTTA take the shitty jobs man. When I was in college I would do the random sorority party here and there, which in the middle of bumfuq Nebraska meant white trash, shitty hiphop and slut rock. Since I was the only 'dj' in the area (and since I was fucking that groups social chair ;-)) I was 'allowed' 90 mins to do my 'techno-thing'
They paid me $60 bucks, bought me a case of beer (and endless shots), and I got to play my music for 90 mins...

Granted,I had to crossfade between Nickleback and Akon...so it could have been better...but on the flip side...it could have been worse! I could have been stuck at home watching the news...or out $40 at the bar...

You gotta cut your teeth somehow...prove yourself, gain recognition and a decent slice of respect, and sooner than later you'll be headlining, and everyone can blow you (or give you a bunch of blow--whichever is better is your case)

If I were in your shoes, i'd take the downtime at the club when you're not spinning to get to know people there, because it's usually the familiar face thing that gets you gigs; which in turn leads to more exposure, which means more gigs, which means more recognition, and sooner than you know it, you'll be opening for ARMIN!!!!

but, no really, i think you get my point.

Posted by RichieV on Aug-03-2009 17:17:

Re: Politics and DJing...

quote:
Originally posted by Meitro
Hey everyone... I'm new to this forum, but I'll keep the introduction short.

Do I have a right to be upset?

-M

You have a right but be upset on the inside. You said you are new, you are replaceable, and a promoter will just not book you ever if you start demanding things at this stage.

Express your discontent but let him know you understand and you will do it to help him out. You have absolutely no leverage unless you throw events yourself. The promoter can and will find a hundred other willing djs/flyer boys.

Posted by david.michael on Aug-03-2009 20:04:

quote:
Originally posted by xiad
Granted,I had to crossfade between Nickleback and Akon...

I'll take option 3, "dick in a blender".

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