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Posted by RickyM on Aug-02-2009 14:29:

Over produced tracks

Often wondered what exactly people meant when they referred to a track being over produced; anyone got examples of a track that they think is over produced?

Posted by Adam420 on Aug-02-2009 14:36:

Well most trance music, for example.

Posted by Sand Leaper on Aug-02-2009 14:42:

I've seen the term used for two types of tracks. One is the kind of track that is simply crammed full of a horde of musical elements to achieve an impact, often to cover up a lack of real substance.

The other is the kind of track that sounds so clinical, polished and squeaky-clean that the efforts towards getting a 100% perfectly produced track takes away the "soul", for lack of a better term. Kind of how photos of women that are to be used for ads and magazines nowadays are so glossy and photoshopped that they no longer look like real women, but rather a computer-generated idealization.

Obviously this is a subjective term, but modern drum n bass in particular is quite guilty of this. I remember Blackdown mentioning how a guy from E-Z Rollers said that he had worked on tuning and polishing a single snare hit for almost a whole week, as if that was some sort of accolade.

Posted by SYSTEM-J on Aug-02-2009 14:45:

Most modern trance is massively over-produced. I think it was Arksun who said on TA that an average trance track uses around 100 channels in the sequencer. That's a hundred layers of shit going on in the music. Why?

Posted by the-sixth on Aug-02-2009 14:59:

Posted by Acton on Aug-02-2009 15:00:

All mnml tracks are massively over produced.

Posted by Subtle on Aug-02-2009 18:02:

Posted by SYSTEM-J on Aug-02-2009 18:32:

He might have said 60 is average, but 100 is not uncommon. Either way, it was a "Jesus, fuck" number.

Posted by RickyM on Aug-02-2009 19:16:

Posted by SYSTEM-J on Aug-02-2009 19:41:

quote:
Originally posted by RickyM
They're not all playing at once though.

If we're talking about an eight minute track in a genre known for repetition, how many unique melodies, basslines and percussion patterns are there going to be?

Posted by Subtle on Aug-02-2009 19:46:

This gives some insight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overproduction_%28music%29

Posted by iTranscendence on Aug-02-2009 19:52:

By wiki's definition I'd say 90% of all music today is over produced.

Posted by SMC on Aug-02-2009 20:36:

'Channels' and 'sequencer' together create some confusion. 60 or 100 channels in the mixer is a lot. 60 or 100 tracks/patterns/channels or whatever in the sequencer (has different names and layout depending on DAW) doesn't have to be a lot.

Posted by RickyM on Aug-02-2009 20:37:

quote:
Originally posted by SMC
'Channels' and 'sequencer' together create some confusion. 60 or 100 channels in the mixer is a lot. 60 or 100 tracks/patterns/channels or whatever in the sequencer (has different names and layout depending on DAW) doesn't have to be a lot.

Yeah that's what I was getting at.

Posted by Zak McKracken on Aug-02-2009 21:21:

when theres no dynamic left aka sidechain compression overkill.
thats the variant of today.

before i thought really BT stuff was too overproduced, to many werd stuff going on not adding anything to the track, plus it sounded gay without any distortion.

some gabriel and dresden stuff just doesnt sound raw enough. and their structures often is a mess.

Posted by MrJiveBoJingles on Aug-02-2009 22:37:

quote:
Originally posted by Subtle
This gives some insight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overproduction_%28music%29

LOL! I wrote that article a little over a year ago. Funny to see someone here referencing it. It's not changed very much from when I first made it.

quote:
Originally posted by iTranscendence
By wiki's definition I'd say 90% of all music today is over produced.

Well, it all depends on what you think is "too much" in terms of layering, compression, effects, and so on. The threshold will be different for different people...

Posted by nefardec on Aug-02-2009 22:40:

quote:
Originally posted by iTranscendence
By wiki's definition I'd say 90% of all music today is over produced.

exactly

my personal take on this is similar to bob dylan's comment linked on the JBJ wiki article:

quote:
You listen to these modern records, they're atrocious, they have sound all over them

there is no quietness in a lot of music these days, no dynamics, no space.

Posted by iTranscendence on Aug-03-2009 04:57:

quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
exactly

my personal take on this is similar to bob dylan's comment linked on the JBJ wiki article:

there is no quietness in a lot of music these days, no dynamics, no space.

It has it's place in a genre like psychedelic downtempo. Where you are trying to achieve a trance-like effect on the mind. But you still need the emptiness to find the balance.

Posted by Fledz on Aug-03-2009 11:59:

quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Most modern trance is massively over-produced. I think it was Arksun who said on TA that an average trance track uses around 100 channels in the sequencer. That's a hundred layers of shit going on in the music. Why?

Well it depends on the producer. There's no hard and fast rule.

Airbase showed in his latest tutorial a track with I think just 18 channels.
Ferry Corsten covers the whole range.
The Thrillseekers often uses 50+

Lots of channels doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad track, and vice versa.

Posted by SYSTEM-J on Aug-03-2009 13:44:

quote:
Originally posted by Fledz
Lots of channels doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad track, and vice versa.

I understand that. Most modern trance is bad though, and most of it is over-produced, and when you listen to a trance record with incredibly glossy production that sounds utterly generic it's easy to see a misuse of creative energy.

Posted by Fledz on Aug-03-2009 13:49:

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just re-enforcing the point that amount of channels isn't really important at all and often has nothing to do with the end product.

Posted by SYSTEM-J on Aug-03-2009 13:52:

To be honest, I'd say a track with 50+ channels is overproduced by default, and I'd like someone to give me an example of a good track that uses so many layers.

Posted by Fledz on Aug-03-2009 13:55:

Mostly they are fills and FX. Like I said, The Thrillseekers is a classic example. It's crazy how many unique sounds he'll use (or at least used to) in a track and you can actually hear if you listen carefully.

However, the guy knows what he's doing unlike the other 49/50 who just overdo it for the sake of it. Production is too easy to get into and breeds poorly trained producers who oversaturate the market.

EDIT - I think Hydra - Affinity was the one with 50+ layers. I had a picture that Helstrip put up of the sequencer but I can't find it.