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Check it in mono!

I haven't seen this mentioned before, or at least not much weight was ever given to the subject (or I have blatantly missed it), so nonetheless, here it goes.

After you're done with your killer track, do yourself and other a favor and check how stuff sounds in mono. Last time I played in a very small event, I went on and played some of TA producers tracks which didn't sound horrible on my home system, so I reckoned I'd try them out in a club (which was almost empty, half-private event, nothing to write home about), and my god, except for one, all were horribly mono incompatible.

Club had a mono soundystem, pretty neat sound otherwise.

In most cases, pads were the first to go down the drain, then all the fancy ultra reverbed wide leads got down to some reverbed mud, hard panned drums that dissapeared, worst cases had basses almost entirely gone, and I could go on.

I won't give any names, since it's not the issue, think most will find themselves in the same pot.

My point being, ALWAYS (!!!!) check your mixes in mono. I can't stress this enough. If the ultra-phatt bass that sounds oh-so-great turns into some low end rumbling with no definition in mono, scrap it, redesign your patch, same goes with all sounds that are gone in mono.

Understand that the 'phatter' the sound, the 'tinier' it'll sound in mono. This is usually caused by crazy oscillator panning, stereo / spread knobs on various synths, and last but not least, insane unison settings a'la 4x stereo and such.
Of course if you know what you're doing, that doesn't cause an issue, but I'd bet a leg and an arm that plenty of people aren't aware of the severity of this issue and how to design & tweak their patches to get good mono compatibility.

My advice is simply this; After you're done with your track, render it into a simple mono track in your DAW and play it out. Reverbs will usually be gone for the most part, all the wideness and spaciness of your favourite sounds too, but it's important that the essential core of the overall sound remains, since the mono check won't lie, that's all you'll get out of your track in a mono club!

One has to know that phatt stereo sounds get cancelled out in a mono setting, left-right swooshing fx's / sounds will find themselves firmly on center, use some logic and work from there.

Have your basses in mono first. Pretty simple; just have your stereo / spread / unison settings kept at nil, then check it in mono, you'll hear no difference. Then start 'phattening' it to the point where there's just a slight difference in the ambience of the sound, and try to get that sound to sit in the track, since it's the safe margin. Of course you could phatten it up more, but then the difference between stereo and mono might become way too big (people that would know the track would go "wow, that ain't the bass i know") for track's own good

Be very cautious with pads, they're usually sounding retardedly huge in almost all patches in all synths, which rings an alarm right there. Good trick here is to have a mono, dead center pad with another, neatly stereo'd one sitting pretty quietly with it, so on a home system it'll still sound good and wide (some psychoacoustics come into play here, sound can get seriously "widened" just by adding some little, almost neglectible stereo field coming from another source on it), yet in a club it'll still provide a good sound, since the mono pad will be dominating there, the stereo one will bite the dust, but the essential sound will remain strong, and that's what important.

Drums, vocals, goes the same for all, always keep a strong, center channel, don't pan drums off center too much, more than 20' off center and you're asking for trouble.

General idea is, before you get the absolute hang of it, first start with a mono sound, then add the same sound that's wide stereo sitting quietly in the mix with it. And I'm not saying layering, since the mono part must always be dominant.

After a while you'll be able to control and understand all those phattening knobs and how to still use them without having audible loss in mono, it takes some practice (as does everything of course), but for the love of god, don't produce phatt stuff out of the box that is simply gone-gone in a club, I'd bet that A&R guys check demos they like in mono aswell and if they know it won't work in a club, they probably won't even bother telling you that, you'll just stare in your empty email inbox and wondering "how come? it's a massive track!"

I believe this issue was never debated seriously enough, and that many don't understand the severity of the issue, and may cause some headaches (...it took me 2 years of producing to start making good sound, now it sounds crap in mono and i need to learn how to make good sound in mono too... back to the drawing board..), but it's all for glorious benefit of kazaks... oops, all aspiring producers everywhere

Can you recommend plugins that you could perhaps use inside the DAW on the master bus without having to bounce it out?

Sure! I use Brainworx BX control, http://www.proaudioeurope.com/index...22&entryId=2489

Also mono/stereo switch on my pioneer dj headphones is pretty neat too

What club still uses Mono only? Why?

quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 What club still uses Mono only? Why?

Almost all clubs do. If you stop for a minute to think about it, the reason is pretty obvious - in a packed club, the majority of people will be standing nowhere near the center of the stereo field and the sound would be awful.

Also if you've got 10 speakers in various locations all bouncing their sound around, the result for any listener is going to be practically mono anyway.

Plenty of clubs are mono, because of the simple placement of the speakers around the place, if the place isn't a form of a square, you can consider it mono, since it's difficult to provide true stereo image from any standpoint in the club. Unless of course club is top notch designed, but there ain't that many

Got speakers over sitting sections? Circular areas? 99% it's mono Main dancefloor might be in stereo, but unless there are 2 amp stations, one set stereo for the main floor and one mono for the rest, that ain't the case. Good clubs will have it sorted, but there's still mono placement everywhere else beside the main floor, and chances are pretty good that it was a "fuck it, let all be mono" for the main floor also

That's generally the difference between clubs which have "zomg awesome" and "good" sound

Hrm, the prospeckt of making tracks in mono seems steep. I guess it boils down to who is your intended audience. I doubt I will ever make a track in Mono, as I never intend to be played in clubs. Almost all of my tracks have heavy reverb, chorus and unisonm, and all of its wide. And of course I always have a phasor or 6 in my tracks.

That's another story then of course. My point was, if people are making tracks aiming to hit the clubs, they should ensure full mono compatibility.

For home projects and stuff that won't get played in clubs, then you could /care about it, no problems with that

quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 Hrm, the prospeckt of making tracks in mono seems steep. I guess it boils down to who is your intended audience. I doubt I will ever make a track in Mono, as I never intend to be played in clubs. Almost all of my tracks have heavy reverb, chorus and unisonm, and all of its wide. And of course I always have a phasor or 6 in my tracks.

The point is to TEST in mono, not to MAKE it in mono. Do you even read the full titles of threads, let alone the posts?

Anyway, it's really a moot point as your tracks aren't going to get played anywhere.

Sure, but the difference between mono and stereo is the difference between a drawing with black and white, and a drawing with color. I am sure most of my tracks work in mono, as I rarely pan sounds. But If I am working to make it mono compatiable, , then widness and phasors go out the window. So does PingPong Delay and most of the reverb. I might aswell make a dry track right?

This is interesting, I never knew clubs played mono, maby that has to do with why I find modern EDM atrocious. How long have studios been doing mono setups?

I started checking my tracks in mono but only out of curiosity, I'm not going to make an effort to get them to sound good in mono. I think the mono issue is not as great as you might think. Downmix Sandstorm or Airwave to mono and they sound terrible, you can't even hear the mid bass bit in the second climax of Sandstorm and you can barely hear the supersaw over the kick in Airwave, and, well, those tracks didn't do too badly, did they?

i used to before as my monitor-level-control/headphone amp had mono button but not anymore as ive switched some gear. really miss that option. i could also mute or switch L or R with that one which also was a fine way of controlling the balance between L and R (people normaly listen better on right ear).

quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 Sure, but the difference between mono and stereo is the difference between a drawing with black and white, and a drawing with color. I am sure most of my tracks work in mono, as I rarely pan sounds. But If I am working to make it mono compatiable, , then widness and phasors go out the window. So does PingPong Delay and most of the reverb. I might aswell make a dry track right? This is interesting, I never knew clubs played mono, maby that has to do with why I find modern EDM atrocious. How long have studios been doing mono setups?

Eliminating phasing issues in a stereo track does NOT mean eliminating all stereo effects.

Using your lame-ass photo analogy, there are plenty of crisp, beautiful colour photos that still look good if you desaturate them and look at them in grayscale. Sometimes it's even done deliberately to create a specific effect.

And the word is spelled MAYBE goddamnit. Use a spell check!

I wont check my tracks in mono.. i just dont wanna know.

But seems like a good idea though, might consider doing it on future productions.

I doubt this can be such a big problem, never heard about a track not working in a club because it sounds shit in mono, ever.

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle I wont check my tracks in mono.. i just dont wanna know.

At least you're honest about it. That's most likely what crono is really thinking but doesn't have the balls to admit.

I often don't bother checking my tunes in mono because I don't necessarily expect them to get played out much.

I don't think "they might sound shit" in Mono..I know they will. But thats not a con. That's not a negative thing. Because they will sound shit in mono by design. I'm not trying to fit my tracks into a niche.

Diginut why all the hostility, everyone in this thread, including me, and you, said the same thing. Chill out.

I check almost every song I do in mono (and really quiet, as well), just to make sure I can still hear everything.

Having it come through decently in mono doesn't mean it's going to sound bad in stereo. Not at all. You take this nice sounding mono track, open it back out to stereo, and it sounds even better.

quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 Diginut why all the hostility, everyone in this thread, including me, and you, said the same thing. Chill out.

Don't start. You said something blatantly wrong - that testing (and adjusting, if necessary) a track in mono is equivalent to using no panning and removing all stereo effects. I corrected you, so that no unsuspecting readers would read what you wrote and actually act on it.

If you want to propagate your too-good-for-clubs image as if anyone cares, fine. Most people here would like their tunes to be played out, even if they don't expect it frequently.

Quit quoting him DigiNut

The ignore feature is useless when you do this






Checking in mono is good. But I make songs for fun, so I don't worry about phase too much.

But when I work for clients (as small as my client base is...) I am anal about checking mono compatibility. Listening to it at low volumes, on crap speakers, on big systems, on little systems.

I think the point should be: Add mono-checking to your normal mixdown routines.

This is just one step in the end process off finishing a track for me. I will also play it on 3 or 4 different systems, at 3 different levels. Some of these systems focus more on bass, some more on treble, so it's a nice reference to see what may make the track sound better on all systems. The mono check is pretty important. Although I don't do it all the time I do render to mono in certain spots. Mainly when any one element is taking up a big percentage of the track.

Cron; why would you not want your tracks to receive maximal attention? Do you have that little pride to not care about seeing your hard work turn into fruition and enjoyment by others?

quote:

Originally posted by the-sixth Can you recommend plugins that you could perhaps use inside the DAW on the master bus without having to bounce it out?

In Logic there's a plug called Multimeter which is a spectrum analyzer and a correlation meter. The correlation meter ranges from +1 to -1.

+1 means the left and right channels correlate 100%.
0 means the track is a wide as possible without causing problems when run on mono systems.
Any negative number will create problems on mono systems.

Ideally you want to as near to 0 as possible.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Don't start. You said something blatantly wrong - that testing (and adjusting, if necessary) a track in mono is equivalent to using no panning and removing all stereo effects. I corrected you, so that no unsuspecting readers would read what you wrote and actually act on it. If you want to propagate your too-good-for-clubs image as if anyone cares, fine. Most people here would like their tunes to be played out, even if they don't expect it frequently.

Except no one said test the tracks in mono, he said make the tracks in mono, ie. the final mixdown is mono only, for the sake of club system compatiability. Making the track mono compatiable DOES directly translate to "no unison, no panning, no use of the stereo field" So you can have bland dry tracks with heavy concern about being severaly limited by mono..or you can just say fuck all and make them stereo.

Do you listen to anything? No, because your a fucking moron.

quote:

Originally posted by mfitterer1 Cron; why would you not want your tracks to receive maximal attention? Do you have that little pride to not care about seeing your hard work turn into fruition and enjoyment by others?

Because I don't care about attention? When I release a track, I tell about 5 or 6 people. I throw it up on tindeck, and maby my myspace. Then I move on. I'm done with that track.

What is the merit in being famous or having recognition? I say there isn't an ounce of merit in it. But that is me. Unlike the entier EDM scene, I make muisc because I enjoy it, not because I want money or fame.

If I wanted to be famous, Id just copy deadmau5.

quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 Except no one said test the tracks in mono, he said make the tracks in mono, ie. the final mixdown is mono only, for the sake of club system compatiability. Do you listen to anything? No, because your a fucking moron.

Shenanigans I tell you!

Did you even read my whole post? The whole point of it was to tell people to CHECK their mixes in mono, not to make the whole fucking track in mono, that's retarded.

I gave you some tips that most of the headliners of the industry never will from my goodwill and you turned it into a big craphole. Thing is, if you do your mixes in good stereo AND ensure mono compatibility, you'll rock the place wherever your tunes are played, if you're not into having your tunes played anywhere, that's fine, I know I never will.

To make tracks in mono is retardation, which you exemplary provided, I had enough experience in high-grade production & mastering that I know what works and what doesn't on the dancefloor, perhaps you should do yourself a favor and listen to those few that still post on TA despite their status in the industry (deadmau5 stopped posting quite a while ago, don't let all the others besides Airwave do the same thing).

I tried to shed some light into something a lot of people miss, some of the industry "well kept secrets" if you want to name it so, and all I got was flaming from a fucking nobody, good job there mate

Yeah, I might aswell check that my tracks sound like Tiesto too.

Have you ever listen to delay or reverb or anything in mono? It sounds like shit 98% of the time. The atmosphear is 50% of the track. Even if you sat and made sure most of the elements work in mono, whats the point if the track isn't going to be 100%?

You have a track, it has massive phase, and wide ass delay, but its horrible in mono.... You would ruin the track just to make it club compatiable?

Also, beside all that, has anyone here relized that 90% of the people who have posted, said they don't care wether its checked in mono or not? It sounds like to me your "secret advice" wasn't very useful, even without me posting, showing you why.

As for those "nobodies" Everyone on TA is a nobody. Even people like Deadmau5 are nobody, when compared to the rest of the world of music. Musicians don't sit on forums or on the internet all day, arguing with morons like diginut and dj rann.

quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 Yeah, I might aswell check that my tracks sound like Tiesto too. Have you ever listen to delay or reverb or anything in mono? It sounds like shit 98% of the time. The atmosphear is 50% of the track. Even if you sat and made sure most of the elements work in mono, whats the point if the track isn't going to be 100%? You have a track, it has massive phase, and wide ass delay, but its horrible in mono.... You would ruin the track just to make it club compatiable? Also, beside all that, has anyone here relized that 90% of the people who have posted, said they don't care wether its checked in mono or not? It sounds like to me your "secret advice" wasn't very useful, even without me posting, showing you why.

No, I wouldn't ruin a track, I'd just make it COMPATIBLE for club usage. Actually, I listen to reverbs and everything in actual clubs plenty of times It doesn't sound horrible in mono if you know what to do, to which I gave good pointers, yet if that's escaping people, I can't help much.

As for your last comment, I frankly don't care if people don't have the intention of ever getting onto dancefloors in clubs, I'm just trying to help those that want to, and I guess that wouldn't be 90% of the people, the only one that was negative about it was you.

Suggestion; Have a friend you know that dj's in a club, play some of your tracks, you might be interested in the outcome then.

Cheers

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