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-- GM says Chevy Volt could top 230 miles-per-gallon

GM says Chevy Volt could top 230 miles-per-gallon

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GM says Chevy Volt could top 230 miles-per-gallon By Matthew Shaer | 08.11.09 Back in 2006, the X-Prize Foundation offered a bundle of cash to any group that could build a 250 miles-per-gallon, non-polluting car. It was a monumental challenge, and one that even three years ago, seemed out of reach. Welcome to 2009, the year of the battery- and gas-powered Chevrolet Volt. Today, GM officially unveiled the Volt, which reps said can travel up to 40 miles on a single battery charge. The car, pictured above � and in the video below � will likely start production later this year. According to GM, the Volt will get city fuel economy of at least 230 miles-per-gallon, and come packaged with a flex fuel-powered engine-generator. The range of the Volt will be 300 miles, GM said. �From the data we�ve seen, many Chevy Volt drivers may be able to be in pure electric mode on a daily basis without having to use any gas,� GM Chief Executive Officer Fritz Henderson said in a statement. �EPA labels are a yardstick for customers to compare the fuel efficiency of vehicles. So a vehicle like the Volt that achieves a composite triple-digit fuel economy is a game-changer.� The statement pointed to a recent Department of Transportation study, which showed eight of 10 Americans commute fewer than 40 miles a day. As GM acknowledged, the actual gas mileage of the Volt will depend on a variety of variables, including cargo load, the number of passengers, the use of the air-conditioner and other accessories. Still, the company stressed that the Volt has consistently achieved 40 miles of �electric-only, petroleum-free driving in both EPA city and highway test cycles.� Reaction Today, the Associated Press reported that EPA had not tested a Volt �and therefore cannot confirm the fuel economy values claimed by GM.� A spokesman for the EPA told the AP that �GM�s commitment to designing and building the car of the future � an American made car that will save families money, significantly reduce our dependence on foreign oil and create good-paying American jobs.� The GM announcement was greeted warmly in the blogosphere, where analysts said the Volt was a step in the right direction. �If we want to reduce our use of foreign oil in a meaningful way, this is exactly the kind of innovation that could do it,� Chad Brand wrote at Seeking Alpha. �Not only will less of our money go to the Middle East region, but we will be reducing pollution and Americans will be able to keep more money in their pockets by saving on the cost of gas. Count me as very much looking forward to the launch of more electric cars in the United States.� But another Seeking Alpha blogger, Matt Burns, wasn�t so sure. �The methodology behind the 230 MPG rating haven�t been released. There is no telling how the Volt�s 40 mile electric-only mode factored into this ranking,� Burns wrote. �The EPA revised its formulas in order to generate a more accurate real-world representation of what EVs can achieve and the Volt�s the first car to benefit from this revision.� In other words, let�s wait to see how all of this shakes out before we bust out the streamers. eBay This is the second major announcement for GM this week. Yesterday, the ailing company, which has been hit especially hard by the recession, said it had partnered with eBay, the online auction house. Starting today, residents of California will be able to purchase GM vehicles through specially-branded pages such as gm.ebay.com and chevy.ebay.com. The deal runs from Aug. 11 through Sept. 8, and includes a wide range of California Chevrolet, Buick, GMC, and Pontiac vehicles. http://features.csmonitor.com/innov...les-per-gallon/

Definitely a game-changer. For comparison, see this list of some of the other best MPG cars of 2009.
http://cars.about.com/od/toppicks/t...elefficient.htm

And it only took a market melt down, several bail outs and bankruptcy for the car companies to get here!

the volt is actually a pretty dope looking car. since i live in an urban area and drive no more than 10 miles a day, i am definitely interested.

However, the 230 mpg rating is slightly/moderately misleading, unless the 230 mpg rating incorporates the fact that the volt bateries are recharged by plugging the car into the electric grid while it is not being used.

They should develop a way to charge the batteries while the car is driving. Using the friction of the wheels turning would be perfect. Then you would never need to recharge. Just driving the car charges the batteries!

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Originally posted by Krypton They should develop a way to charge the batteries while the car is driving. Using the friction of the wheels turning would be perfect. Then you would never need to recharge. Just driving the car charges the batteries!

ok theresa, whatever you say

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Originally posted by Krypton They should develop a way to charge the batteries while the car is driving. Using the friction of the wheels turning would be perfect. Then you would never need to recharge. Just driving the car charges the batteries!

that's exactly how the batteries for hybrid cars are charged. the problem is it doesn't produce enough electricity to create the power necessary to power the car in perpetuity. Think about it, if the car needs energy to move, you can only capture a portion of the necessary energy because most of it is being used to move the car. There's no way to recapture all of that energy because most of it needs to be used to move the car.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 that's exactly how the batteries for hybrid cars are charged. the problem is it doesn't produce enough electricity to create the power necessary to power the car in perpetuity. Think about it, if the car needs energy to move, you can only capture a portion of the necessary energy because most of it is being used to move the car. There's no way to recapture all of that energy because most of it needs to be used to move the car.

If battery power can be improved upon. Half the batteries could be charging while the other half is used to power the car. Then when the first half which had been powering the car runs out of power, then the other half takes over, and the first half now charges.

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Originally posted by Krypton If battery power can be improved upon. Half the batteries could be charging while the other half is used to power the car. Then when the first half which had been powering the car runs out of power, then the other half takes over, and the first half now charges.

Get it to work and you'll be a trillionaire. Screw the stock market. Study engineering.

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Originally posted by Krypton If battery power can be improved upon. Half the batteries could be charging while the other half is used to power the car. Then when the first half which had been powering the car runs out of power, then the other half takes over, and the first half now charges.

Granted my physics are a bit rusty, but i think that what you are describing violates the first law of thermodynamics.

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Originally posted by Moongoose Granted my physics are a bit rusty, but i think that what you are describing violates the first law of thermodynamics.

How so?

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Originally posted by Moongoose Granted my physics are a bit rusty, but i think that what you are describing violates the first law of thermodynamics.

the first law of thermodynamic states that energy can't be created or detroyed, only transferred. how would transferring the captured energy and/or allocating it to a portion of the battery break that law?

it's the second law that seems to be more of the challenge.

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Originally posted by Faj27 the first law of thermodynamic states that energy can't be created or detroyed, only transferred. how would transferring the captured energy and/or allocating it to a portion of the battery break that law? it's the second law that seems to be more of the challenge.

i don't know the law of thermodynamics, but a portion of the energy must be used to propel the vehicle, thus you can never capture enough energy to re-propel the car in perpetuity because each time you capture energy it will always be a diminishing amount of energy until there isn't enough energy. For example, if a cars batteries can store 1000 units of energy, and 50 units are needed to move the car for 10 minutes with 50 units of energy being wasted in that period (and able to be recaptured), after 10 minutes of motion, the 1000 units of energy has turned into 950 (instead of 900 if the recaptured energy was simplyh wasted). After another 10 minutes it turns into 900. That happens until there is no energy after 200 minutes of operation. In this example, the recaptured of energy doubled the amount of time the car could operate, but since it is impossible to recapture energy necessary for propulsion, it can't extend the life forever.

The great law of diminishing marginal returns. Anywho, I think it can be done to such an extent to provide a lengthy period of energy for the car. But as Jerz said, not forever.

bummer, although I still think they will get good gas mileage. I just wonder about my electricity bill running up now!

Article

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So Much For That; EPA Won't Back Up GM's 230 MPG Claim Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:47pm EDT By Christopher DeMorro Oh GM, I knew you were getting ahead of yourself. Early this morning, CEO Fritz Henderson claimed thatthe Chevy Volt, a gas-electric plug-in hybrid would earn an EPA-estimated rating of 230 MPG. But according to Green Car Advisor, the EPA has said no such thing. The EPA had this to say in response to GM's 230 MPG claim: EPA has not tested a Chevy Volt and therefore cannot confirm the fuel economy values claimed by GM. EPA does applaud GM's commitment to designing and building the car of the future - an American-made car that will save families money, significantly reduce our dependence on foreign oil and create good-paying American jobs. We're proud to see American companies and American workers leading the world in the clean energy innovations that will shape the 21st century economy. So how did GM get to the 230 mpg figure, and why did they jump the gun without the right credentials? Probably something like this; the average city testing cycle for a new car under current EPA rules is 11 miles long at various speeds, inclines, and conditions (traffic, open road, etc). The Volt can travel 40 miles on electricity alone, so by the time the gas engine kicks in, the Volt will have traveled 40 miles without a sip of gas. The next 11 miles would drain just under a quarter gallon of gas. Just like magic, GM has a 230 MPG car. I mean hey, technically, it works. Who among us drives more than 40 miles a day for work? My average commute consists of about 60 miles round trip, but in a Volt that would only cost me twenty miles worth of gas, probably under a half-gallon since the Volt will still get very good gas mileage. But my commute is almost all highway; how the Volt's battery fares at highway speeds is yet to be seen. I thought you all might want to know this, even though I'm sure I'll catch all hell for it. I still believe in American cars...I just wish Fritz would have been more...up front. Source: Green Car Advisor

I never understood the whole "Krypton is a moron" bashfest on the COR, but now that he wants to build a perpetual motion machine, I might just change my mind.

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Originally posted by noikeee I never understood the whole "Krypton is a moron" bashfest on the COR, but now that he wants to build a perpetual motion machine, I might just change my mind.

The goal would be a car you never even have to plug in, gas up, or add anything to. A self-fueling car. Probably would come from several sources. Wheel friction, wind power (from the car moving at high speed), solar power (they are making very thin/flexible solar material), etc. Think about how hot your car gets when you park it for several hours in the sun. That heat is energy that could be used to power the car. In fact, everything is essentially energy, so if the car can harness the energy around it, it can power itself.

If I had the engineering know how and the money, I just might try to build something like that. Whoever does would be rich beyond their wildest dreams. I think something like this could be done in the 21st century.

That is slightly different from what you were saying before. Solar energy is external to the car's own propulsion energy. However, solar cars already exist and I believe they are horribly slow.

Also, the car industry is already looking at some of these angles, with devices like KERS (see this wiki article), which use some of the energy released under braking to save fuel. The problem is that, although the technology is relevant and promising, they can't generate anywhere near the energy used up by the car in the first place. Which is obvious, because otherwise you'd get close to a perpetual motion machine and that's physically impossible.

Please note that I struggled through physics classes and might not actually have a real idea of wtf I'm talking about.

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Originally posted by noikeee That is slightly different from what you were saying before. Solar energy is external to the car's own propulsion energy. However, solar cars already exist and I believe they are horribly slow. Also, the car industry is already looking at some of these angles, with devices like KERS (see this wiki article), which use some of the energy released under braking to save fuel. The problem is that, although the technology is relevant and promising, they can't generate anywhere near the energy used up by the car in the first place. Which is obvious, because otherwise you'd get close to a perpetual motion machine and that's physically impossible. Please note that I struggled through physics classes and might not actually have a real idea of wtf I'm talking about.

I'm thinking of the ultimate solution. I'm under no illusions about our current lack of technological know-how to make it happen any time soon...

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