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-- Nanny statism continues. Councillor mulls idea of licensing bicycles like cars!!
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Nanny statism continues. Councillor mulls idea of licensing bicycles like cars!!

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Councillor Michael Walker has proven to be a vocal opponent of recent measures to make Toronto more bike-friendly. He is part of this odd, little cabal of Councillors who have manufactured the so-called �war on the car�. Councillors who pine for a 1950s Toronto; those halcyon days when the car was king, lawns were well-watered and sprinkled with pesticides and the Stepford Wives wore plastic smiles, starched aprons and fixed their salaryman husbands a post-work drink. Walker�s latest dubious idea is for cyclists to be licensed. Why license when education would be more effective? What would the administrative costs be? How would Toronto achieve this in light of the provincial Highway Traffic Act; that is, how enforceable would this be? Is this a symbolic gesture, aimed at showing displeasure with those tree-hugging hippy types who prefer the eco-friendly bicycle over the eco-mauling car? Would, as CBC host Matt Galloway asks, licensing be so onerous that many would just not ride bikes? I bet Walker et al would like that, but one hopes that is not the intent of his motion. Indeed, why isn�t he fighting harder for safer cycling zones, dedicated lanes, looking to New York City as an example of what can be done when the political will is present? Walker then makes everyone�s skin crawl when he asks rhetorically (I think�) if cyclist insurance should be considered. You can bet that the insurance industry just collectively wet its pants when Walker mused aloud on that nefarious idea. Walker seems to miss the point that there are too many roads in this city that are simply unsafe for cyclists. Licensing isn�t going to change that. Bike-friendly design will. Further, a New York City study found that in 1000 traffic fatalities involving vehicles, pedestrians and cyclists, drivers were responsible for 74% of the accidents and partially responsible for another 16%. Shouldn�t Walker push for better driver education? Again, his logic escapes me. But maybe logic was never part of this motion. There is also the social justice dimension. Many Torontonians who do not have a car are without because of choice or because cars are unaffordable. For those who own a set of wheels, it�s a hefty household expense. So these car-free citizens get around town on public transit and bikes. By pushing for bike licensing, Walker would make it harder for lower-income citizens to have an affordable mode of transportation. And when TTC fares keep going up, for some the only way to get from A to B will be on two wheels. I expect that City Council, when they meet next, will reject this asinine motion. But if, for some bizarre reason, this motion is passed and if for some inane reason the province agrees to amend the Highway Traffic Act to give this motion teeth, then all of us who cycle should simply refuse to pay any ticket. Through this modest act of civil disobedience, if we all say �no� the administrative headache will be so overwhelming that bike licensing will eventually be spiked.

and this from todays sun:

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Had the tires on the bike that killed Cheng Li Jiang on a Kennedy Rd. sidewalk been a tad bigger, her death would have merited an $85 fine. As it stands now there are no charges, no fine, no nothing. Kind of cheap for the taking of a life of a wife and mother of two who was just going out to the store! It was only a matter of time before somebody on a sidewalk would be killed by a speedy cyclist. It's up to us if we want to stop there being more. Had that bike had a licensed adult on the pedals, perhaps dangerous driving charges could have been laid or even criminal negligence causing death. But this cyclist was a 15-year-old on a kid's bike and it's only larger, adult-style bicycles that a city bylaw bans from sidewalks. Translation? The tragic death of Jiang, 56, means nothing in terms of the law. She died in hospital Friday after landing on her head Thursday and that's the end of it. Unless, of course, we decide to change it. And we had better. "There have been three horrible bike accidents in the past four days," says a frustrated Sgt. Tim Burrows of Toronto Police's traffic services. "And we have had too many close calls." Neale Gifford is one who recently had one. "Sidewalks do belong to pedestrians," says Neale. "Cyclists do complain about cars. But what about pedestrians who are terrorized? The biggest issue is the lack of enforcement of the law. Patrolling police cruisers ignore sidewalk cyclists." It's a huge problem and an emergency meeting of council is needed and a whole new approach to bikes on the roads needs to be implemented. And perhaps the horrible death of Cheng Li, who came to Toronto eight years ago from Shanghai, China, could be the catalyst to change. It's the least Toronto could do for her. "I don't understand any of this," says her brother, John Jiang, who was clearly angry. "What is with the mayor and council collecting all of the taxes and not keeping people safe going for a walk on the sidewalk?" Her family -- husband, JinBio Fang, and sons, Yuan Fang, 27, and Zheng Fang, 30 -- is devastated. "She had a big heart," says John Jiang. "We are so sad." Funeral arrangements are pending and her family says they are contacting a lawyer to look into the events surrounding this senseless death. Councillor Michael Walker has been warning of this possibility for years. "Sooner or later a government is going to get sued," he says. His recommendation is already before council urging them to license all cyclists and ensure that they have proper training and safety equipment. Another thing that should come out of this is a coroner's inquest. Meanwhile, Toronto Police are still investigating. But you can see the problem. First of all you are dealing with a 15-year-old and the fact that there is no criminal intent. There is also no law that says that bike is not to be on the sidewalk. "They both saw each other and failed to negotiate that," said Burrows, who wants to see bikes off sidewalks. It's not lost on anybody that had that been a car which struck and killed the woman, you know there would be charges laid. It's also not lost that people riding their bikes on pedestrian sidewalks are out of control in every part of the city. And it has to stop. It is a bylaw offence to do that and it's downright dangerous. It's scary to go for a walk anymore. Walker is correct in his view that all people operating bikes should be licensed and subject to testing and that all safety concerns have to be addressed. The veteran councillor would like to see only kids under 12 allowed to ride on sidewalks and proper training for everyone else who bikes on the road. One problem police have noticed is older teens or even adults are using smaller BMX-style children's bikes for what Burrow's calls "skirting underneath" the standards and making it difficult for police to charge them. Walker's idea would certainly take care of that. Meanwhile, the city should call in Toronto Police Const. Hugh Smith, who has given 1,400 cops cycle training and could really help get this city up to proper standards. He would like to see it mandatory for cyclists to wear helmets, identifying safety vests and gloves and be subject to a Highway Traffic Act offence should they not properly follow the rules of the road. Of course there are some hoping this little mishap will just go away and die like Cheng Li Jiang did. Perhaps there will be more who would join her family in wanting to learn something from her death and use it to prevent more tragedies. [email protected]

I am 100% for this.

The process of getting your car license forces you to learn the rules of the road.

Bike riders do not have any respect for rules of the road.


I licensing does not happen next spring/summer I would like to see way more police on the roads fining cyclist for breaking laws. Im sure if one stayed at yonge and dundas he could ticket 100 a day.

Im tired of being nearly ran over almost every day.

If you give them more 'safe zones' they will still break laws.

BE MORE STRICT. NANNY THE CYCLIST.

I'm waiting for a right moment to trip one of those ******s over and see them smash their face - fucking hell! you either drive on the road like a car and abide the rules or you are a pedestrian, but not both! the amount of times I was nearly run over crossing a road on the zebra on the green light is ridiculous - all over sudden they think they can change direction and charge through a pedestrian crossing

fuck the cyclists!
/rant

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Originally posted by Intangible I am 100% for this. The process of getting your car license forces you to learn the rules of the road. Bike riders do not have any respect for rules of the road. I licensing does not happen next spring/summer I would like to see way more police on the roads fining cyclist for breaking laws. Im sure if one stayed at yonge and dundas he could ticket 100 a day. Im tired of being nearly ran over almost every day. If you give them more 'safe zones' they will still break laws. BE MORE STRICT. NANNY THE CYCLIST.

The highway traffic act already applies to cyclists with exception to having to be licensed and over 16. If cops started fining cyclists with existing rules we wouldnt need new ones. As for kids riding bikes, perhaps a mandatory bike safety class should be taught in schools (isnt that why we had Elmer the elephant??). And if there is an accident the parent should be responsible.

But licensing? REFLECTIVE VESTS? and licence plates???

GIVE ME A BREAK!!!

lets just collcetively bend over a little further shall we?

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Originally posted by FunkyCrew I'm waiting for a right moment to trip one of those ******s over and see them smash their face - fucking hell! you either drive on the road like a car and abide the rules or you are a pedestrian, but not both! the amount of times I was nearly run over crossing a road on the zebra on the green light is ridiculous - all over sudden they think they can change direction and charge through a pedestrian crossing fuck the cyclists! /rant

I agree.. cyclists are out of control. So lets fine them with existing rules. We dont need MORE bureaucracy! Another money grab in the name of safety.

I love playing chicken with the douchebags that cycle down a one way street the wrong way and refuse to yield to cars who are following the rules. Scares the shit out of them!!

I say Tax and Fine everything...its the only fair way to do it.

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced I say Tax and Fine everything...its the only fair way to do it.

Starting with every single word typed above

I fucking hate the cyclists as well!

They ride around not really obeying any laws at all. I love driving so close to the curb so they cant get past me..lol...i know i am an asshole, but they should obey the rules of the road..

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Originally posted by Jayx1 The highway traffic act already applies to cyclists with exception to having to be licensed and over 16. If cops started fining cyclists with existing rules we wouldnt need new ones. As for kids riding bikes, perhaps a mandatory bike safety class should be taught in schools (isnt that why we had Elmer the elephant??). And if there is an accident the parent should be responsible. But licensing? REFLECTIVE VESTS? and licence plates??? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! lets just collcetively bend over a little further shall we?

laws exist but cyclist dont care about them. Why not make them write an exam similar to the boating one and make them renew it every 3 years to keep the information fresh in their heads. And a licence plate would help create accountability. I do think reflective vests are a bit too much - but requiring that ALL bikes have reflective property on their bikes (like the things on most bike wheels) sounds like a fair compromise.

The city does need to enforce the laws as well. They dont. Every day I watch multiple cyclists break the law at yonge/dundas and so many times police have been present. It makes me so angry.

Kids are kids. Lessons for kids would be a great aid in creating more responsible cyclists. But what happened to that poor woman is just an accident - a sad one. Kids should not be on the road, kids are allowed to be on the sidewalk. Pedestrains should be paying attention to whats going on around them...

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Originally posted by Intangible laws exist but cyclist dont care about them. Why not make them write an exam similar to the boating one and make them renew it every 3 years to keep the information fresh in their heads. And a licence plate would help create accountability. I do think reflective vests are a bit too much - but requiring that ALL bikes have reflective property on their bikes (like the things on most bike wheels) sounds like a fair compromise. The city does need to enforce the laws as well. They dont. Every day I watch multiple cyclists break the law at yonge/dundas and so many times police have been present. It makes me so angry. Kids are kids. Lessons for kids would be a great aid in creating more responsible cyclists. But what happened to that poor woman is just an accident - a sad one. Kids should not be on the road, kids are allowed to be on the sidewalk. Pedestrains should be paying attention to whats going on around them...

MAKE them care about it. Mandate the police to start policing them with existing laws in high traffic areas. Do a public info campaign. Charge a few careless cyclists. People will get the hint. We dont need new laws for that! The only only thing id consider reasonable is to put not riding on sidewalks into the highway traffic act. Otherwise new bureaucracy is nothing more than a nanny state cash grab.

Why should we make new laws if current ones arent even enforced? Kind of redundant unless its a money making operation!

Kids should not be on sidewalks. If they arent old enough to handle a road then they should stick to small streets and parks just like my mommy made me do when i was a kid!!!!

No thank you to more state intervention no matter what the good intent may be.

I do agree that existing laws need to be enforced. There is no need to create redundant laws.

If they enforce the laws that already exist then the money will flow into the city.

Yeah not going to happen. What as soon as somebody bikes into the city they are going to need a license? Or a special temporary permit?

Don't get your panties in a bunch.

we will see. the fact is that we love babysitting laws and a lot of people support this crap. And a lot of other similar laws have already passed.

You cant idly dismiss these things anymore and hope it goes away.

I am against this law. Instead of being forced to obtain licenses, cyclists should simply be put in the stocks and horse-whipped whenever they run a red light on a busy street.

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Originally posted by DigiNut I am against this law. Instead of being forced to obtain licenses, cyclists should simply be put in the stocks and horse-whipped whenever they run a red light on a busy street.

Same for pedestrians who jwalk right in front of cars!!

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Originally posted by Cro_Addict I fucking hate the cyclists as well!

None of you hate cyclists - you hate stupid, inattentive people riding on bicycles.

There's a difference.

Kind of like how when I'm riding my bike I get annoyed at stupid, inattentive people who drive cars and yak obliviously on their cell phones or scarf down lunch-on-the-road while doing so, conveniently forgetting to perform certain pertinent actions in the process - like say, signaling when they're turning.

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced I say Tax and Fine everything...its the only fair way to do it. quote: Originally posted by Jayx1 Starting with every single word typed above

'Cuz they pay me every time I do!

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Originally posted by Jayx1 But licensing? REFLECTIVE VESTS? and licence plates???

Jonathan Steinbloom: (referring to his mother) "You could say she was overly protective - I just like to think she cared about me, which she did, a lot. And I was a member of the chess team and whenever we would have chess tournaments I had to wear a protective helmet, I had to wear a football helmet. Now who knows what she was thinking? Maybe she thought that we might have fallen maybe and impaled our heads on a pointy bishop or something, I don't know."

Licensed bikers? In Toronto??? That will be the day....

Next we'll be taxed for the air we breathe. We'll be wearing air monitors to track our oxygen intake and will be taxed accordingly. Similar to the longer you live, the more taxes you pay. Better learn how to hold your breath. What's with this war on bikes that the Star and other newspapers are brewing up? We should be encouraging greener and healthier modes of transportation not putting fees on them. "Completed" dedicated bike lanes are are whats needed. They should stretch from one end of the city to the other and should have a barrier so cars cannot cross into them. What a big city like toronto needs to do is encourage people to use bikes and provide safer areas for the cyclists. The current Toronto bike path infrastucture is insufficient as it lacks continous paths. In Montreal over the last 5 years the bike lanes have improved drastically, and the city is much better for it. Forced licencing is just a polution causing deterent, the city should spend tax payer money on better bike paths instead of this.

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Originally posted by love_child Licensed bikers? In Toronto??? That will be the day.... Next we'll be taxed for the air we breathe. We'll be wearing air monitors to track our oxygen intake and will be taxed accordingly. Similar to the longer you live, the more taxes you pay. Better learn how to hold your breath. What's with this war on bikes that the Star and other newspapers are brewing up? We should be encouraging greener and healthier modes of transportation not putting fees on them. "Completed" dedicated bike lanes are are whats needed. They should stretch from one end of the city to the other and should have a barrier so cars cannot cross into them. What a big city like toronto needs to do is encourage people to use bikes and provide safer areas for the cyclists. The current Toronto bike path infrastucture is insufficient as it lacks continous paths. In Montreal over the last 5 years the bike lanes have improved drastically, and the city is much better for it. Forced licencing is just a polution causing deterent, the city should spend tax payer money on better bike paths instead of this.

Bike lanes but not at the expense of car lanes! After all we have winter in toronto and already a severely lacking infrastructure for ALL modes of transport. Id like to see bike highways built through the chain of parks and along rail corridors similar to car free ways with pedestrian overpasses. I wouldnt even be against elevated sidewalks in order for bikes and cars to pass freely underneath. Lets just not cut the already over capacity roads that handle thousands of cars per hour to handle 100 bikes per hour at peak!

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced I say Tax and Fine everything...its the only fair way to do it.

oh yeess

and make them pay insurance while u are at it, right?

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Originally posted by Engine9 oh yeess and make them pay insurance while u are at it, right?

that will come next

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Originally posted by Engine9 oh yeess and make them pay insurance while u are at it, right?

damn right....the more claims the better....money in my pocket.

They should revamp the whole way biking is addressesed in Toronto. Bikers should NOT share the road with cars. You have a 1500 pound object moving and sharing the road with a 150 pound object? How fucked is that? All bike lanes should look like this:



Then we can start focusing on the smaller issues. Of course, we're too far into the current way we do things, so obviously no turning back now .

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Originally posted by Cosmic Fur They should revamp the whole way biking is addressesed in Toronto. Bikers should NOT share the road with cars. You have a 1500 pound object moving and sharing the road with a 150 pound object? How fucked is that? All bike lanes should look like this: Then we can start focusing on the smaller issues. Of course, we're too far into the current way we do things, so obviously no turning back now .

That pic is nuts! The bike lane looks as wide as the car lane or should i say vice versa! Also that road looks like its not very well traveled to begin with. What a waste!

If we had room to spare for wide bike lanes id be for it. But also remember, Vancouver is more of a year round bike city than we are. It makes a little more sense there. But to give the biggest objects on the road as much or less space than pedestrians and bikes. Thats a little bit far flung.

cyclists should also wear life jackets. it only makes sense.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 That pic is nuts! The bike lane looks as wide as the car lane or should i say vice versa! Also that road looks like its not very well traveled to begin with. What a waste! If we had room to spare for wide bike lanes id be for it. But also remember, Vancouver is more of a year round bike city than we are. It makes a little more sense there. But to give the biggest objects on the road as much or less space than pedestrians and bikes. Thats a little bit far flung.

Spacing is a minor issue that would range from street to street obviously. I'm talking about a distinct separation between where cars travel and where bikes travel.

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