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L O ****ing LLLLL!

So I just got done getting my new tracks for the month. Upon going through beatport I noticed a track; Mac & Mac - Solid Session. Immediately upon hearing it I noticed it had jacked basically the entire song concept from RAM - Solid Hope. It even has Solid in the title as well!

Then what was I to find but to have it be signed to Magic Muzik. One of Tiesto's labels! Do what you do you fucking inbred talentless twat.

If you remember there was a big deal made back when he dropped his album about stealing a demo's melody for what became Elements Of Life.

Is this guy fucking serious? How does he get away with this? And even worse; how does he think he CAN get away with this?

Ram - Solid Hope

Mac & Mac - Solid Session

Do you honestly think this has something to do with Ti�sto?

Re: L O ****ing LLLLL!

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Originally posted by mfitterer1 So I just got done getting my new tracks for the month. Upon going through beatport I noticed a track; Mac & Mac - Solid Session. Immediately upon hearing it I noticed it had jacked basically the entire song concept from RAM - Solid Hope. It even has Solid in the title as well! Then what was I to find but to have it be signed to Magic Muzik. One of Tiesto's labels! Do what you do you fucking inbred talentless twat. If you remember there was a big deal made back when he dropped his album about stealing a demo's melody for what became Elements Of Life. Is this guy fucking serious? How does he get away with this? And even worse; how does he think he CAN get away with this? Ram - Solid Hope Mac & Mac - Solid Session

Well, I'm going to answer your questions purely from a licensing and label standpoint and I'll touch a bit on my feelings regarding it all.

It really comes down to one simple thing. There is not enough money (thus care) to go ahead filing lawsuits when things like this happen. There are a multitude of reasons because of this. The two most daunting are the fact that music sales are the worst they have ever been in the history of music (when taking population into account). The second most daunting task is these violations cross international borders. I'm sorry, but nobody is going to hire an international lawyer and go to whatever country to sue for damages on a track that probably won't even produce 4 figures.

Is it "lame" ? Yes, but that is the way the cookie crumbles. I can tell you I am personally working on releasing an REM remix of "everybody hurts" - I ripped the acapella from cover vocal done on a random karoake website and had one of my artists remix it for the label. I requested, multiple times, to at least discuss the possibility of doing it the official way with REM and their respective label and I never even got a response. Even EMI responded when I contacted them about obtaining a license to release a remix of Empire of the Sun's "Rule The World" track.

Everything is shady these days. There are thousands and possibly millions of MIDI's out there and people are stealing them left and right and often not making any changes or just a few subtle ones. Now you've got Melodyne with DNA which is really going to make this even worse.

I personally love the guitar in Aerosmith's "Dream On" - There is no midi for it, so I just popped it open in Melodyne, opened up the DNA, did a little editing, and bam I had the melody for the song. On top of that, I sampled the guitar so it sounds identical while giving me the flexibility to work with MIDI. Don't worry, I'm not releasing a stolen melody from "Dream On" - It's just a personal remix.

Hopefully this will help shine light on why this is possible. Contracts don't mean anything anymore. What I've been told by multiple well respected people in this business (I asked around A LOT regarding the REM remix) is that unless you're making a lot of money, nobody is going to give a shit.

And, to just be particular, there is a website you can go to where you can "register" for using the melody of another track. You cannot use ANY elements from the track, but you can legally use the melody (You have to pay a mechanical fee which is 7 or 8 cents per sale)

And, don't forget that 99% of EDM artists don't bother to formally copyright their music (I would recommend Peer Music based out of LA) so even if they did decide to fly around the world filing lawsuits, they wouldn't win them!

Is it all shady, and somewhat "lame" ? Absolutely.....but there's really not much we can do about it except frown upon those who do it, continue to call them out, and withdraw any and all support for the "artist"

I don't have a problem with Blake Jarrell doing a cover of a Police tune (he did a great job) and I don't have a problem with Kenneth Thomas doing a cover of "Wish you were here" which was another great job. They were projects with a lot of work put into them and for the most part relied on original production talent. I don't have a problem with that.

Stealing a melody flat out and thumbing your noise at the dance community along with disrepecting the artists of those melodies is beyond unacceptable. Hopefully producers, and more importantly listeners/clubbers/labels, will start to have some integrity and stop supporting artists who do this. (Especially multiple offenders)

Tiesto and his label have not received one red cent from me in the past 7 years. It's hard for me to sit here and say that because I am close with an artist that Tiesto is very close to, and I don't want that to interfere with my relationship, but what Tiesto has done and continues to do is unacceptable, lame, and should be frowned upon by all in the dance community.

Hope some of this helps to clear up the picture. If there is anything else you've got on your mind post it. I like to help the forum out as much as I can since I get so much help with production and I rarely can ever give help back. This is one thing that I actually know a bit about.

tiesto is such a n00b

He is easily the biggest poser in Trance, period. The guy cares nothing about making quality music himself and just wants to sit on stage with his hands in the air as if he enjoys all of this attention he is getting from playing other peoples music. it's pretty funny actually. I usually regard EDM listeners and producers as intelligent ethical, and hard working, but it looks like my theory on that is not true. He's been a poser all his life. His early years were just sets that used tons and tons of tracks Paul Oakenfold was already using. So Tiesto decided to be the little poser he is and started playing A LOT of the same tracks as Paul. I don't really know much more after that as I lost quite a bit of respect for him for that and some other bullshit he had done (and continues to do) - He played here in Nashville a couple of years ago and one of my friends was opening for him and he absolutely destroyed the place. Then came on Tiesto and and the two were not even comparable. I left 40 minutes into his set.

Re: Re: L O ****ing LLLLL!

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Originally posted by DjStephenWiley Well, I'm going to answer your questions purely from a licensing and label standpoint and I'll touch a bit on my feelings regarding it all. It really comes down to one simple thing. There is not enough money (thus care) to go ahead filing lawsuits when things like this happen. There are a multitude of reasons because of this. The two most daunting are the fact that music sales are the worst they have ever been in the history of music (when taking population into account). The second most daunting task is these violations cross international borders. I'm sorry, but nobody is going to hire an international lawyer and go to whatever country to sue for damages on a track that probably won't even produce 4 figures. Is it "lame" ? Yes, but that is the way the cookie crumbles. I can tell you I am personally working on releasing an REM remix of "everybody hurts" - I ripped the acapella from cover vocal done on a random karoake website and had one of my artists remix it for the label. I requested, multiple times, to at least discuss the possibility of doing it the official way with REM and their respective label and I never even got a response. Even EMI responded when I contacted them about obtaining a license to release a remix of Empire of the Sun's "Rule The World" track. Everything is shady these days. There are thousands and possibly millions of MIDI's out there and people are stealing them left and right and often not making any changes or just a few subtle ones. Now you've got Melodyne with DNA which is really going to make this even worse. I personally love the guitar in Aerosmith's "Dream On" - There is no midi for it, so I just popped it open in Melodyne, opened up the DNA, did a little editing, and bam I had the melody for the song. On top of that, I sampled the guitar so it sounds identical while giving me the flexibility to work with MIDI. Don't worry, I'm not releasing a stolen melody from "Dream On" - It's just a personal remix. Hopefully this will help shine light on why this is possible. Contracts don't mean anything anymore. What I've been told by multiple well respected people in this business (I asked around A LOT regarding the REM remix) is that unless you're making a lot of money, nobody is going to give a shit. And, to just be particular, there is a website you can go to where you can "register" for using the melody of another track. You cannot use ANY elements from the track, but you can legally use the melody (You have to pay a mechanical fee which is 7 or 8 cents per sale) And, don't forget that 99% of EDM artists don't bother to formally copyright their music (I would recommend Peer Music based out of LA) so even if they did decide to fly around the world filing lawsuits, they wouldn't win them! Is it all shady, and somewhat "lame" ? Absolutely.....but there's really not much we can do about it except frown upon those who do it, continue to call them out, and withdraw any and all support for the "artist" I don't have a problem with Blake Jarrell doing a cover of a Police tune (he did a great job) and I don't have a problem with Kenneth Thomas doing a cover of "Wish you were here" which was another great job. They were projects with a lot of work put into them and for the most part relied on original production talent. I don't have a problem with that. Stealing a melody flat out and thumbing your noise at the dance community along with disrepecting the artists of those melodies is beyond unacceptable. Hopefully producers, and more importantly listeners/clubbers/labels, will start to have some integrity and stop supporting artists who do this. (Especially multiple offenders) Tiesto and his label have not received one red cent from me in the past 7 years. It's hard for me to sit here and say that because I am close with an artist that Tiesto is very close to, and I don't want that to interfere with my relationship, but what Tiesto has done and continues to do is unacceptable, lame, and should be frowned upon by all in the dance community. Hope some of this helps to clear up the picture. If there is anything else you've got on your mind post it. I like to help the forum out as much as I can since I get so much help with production and I rarely can ever give help back. This is one thing that I actually know a bit about.

Yeah I know there's nothing that can be done it just is hilarious that the clown hasn't learned his lesson despite it happening numerous times.

I also barred Tiesto when I went to his show locally almost a year ago. I honestly wanted to sue him. He was redlining of course; and it was a small system. Myself and all of my group (around ten people) all had pretty severe hearing damage for up to a week. I had never had that happen before. I know he was redlining because there was heavy distortion even on vocals! It sounded so bad. On top of that he was doing his thing where he does no eq'ing in his transitions at all. Whole track in, whole track out, roffl. He was playing an nrg set and it was just horrific. I vowed never to play a Tiesto production again. I don't mind buyin a track from his label or a remix that someone did of a track of his but I will never play that retard fuck again.

I know everyone knows he does this; so why has someone up high not gone public? Because Tiesto has such a huge fan base?

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Originally posted by mfitterer1 I know everyone knows he does this; so why has someone up high not gone public? Because Tiesto has such a huge fan base?

Because, contrary to Stephen's optimistic perception of the average intelligence and integrity of EDM fans and producers, this music scene is chock full of clueless people, poseurs, and conniving opportunists who will cut as many corners as they can get away with if it means they can climb the ladder to fame and fortune.

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Do you honestly think this has something to do with Ti�sto?

He owns the label does he not?

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Because, contrary to Stephen's optimistic perception of the average intelligence and integrity of EDM fans and producers, this music scene is chock full of clueless people, poseurs, and conniving opportunists who will cut as many corners as they can get away with if it means they can climb the ladder to fame and fortune.

So much for the love of the music!

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Originally posted by DjStephenWiley He is easily the biggest poser in Trance, period. (.........) Then came on Tiesto and and the two were not even comparable. I left 40 minutes into his set.

I haven't been around for a while, read a little occasionally, but never felt like reacting anymore. However, this I can't go by without giving my opinion.
I'm sorry Stephen, but your post is utter bullshit. It's your opinion, so don't period us! So what if he played a lot of the same tracks Oalkenfold played. When you where just a baby boy, Ti�sto already was producing and DJ-ing. The first tracks, he produced himself, after that, he got a producer team behind him which - till this day - produces his tracks for him. Who are you to say that he doesn't give a damn about making quality music!

I'm getting so sick of some ignorant pricks that - probably out of jealousy - flame another DJ. Ti�sto did a lot for trance music in general, and still does. I've seen him play a couple of times and it was really great!! He really deserved it to be no1 DJ of the world.

Period.

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Originally posted by Energy_3 So much for the love of the music!

Oh, you can love the music without loving every last person involved with it. Don't get me wrong, I love trance and there are many great and genuine fans and producers in addition to the fools and the cheats.

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Originally posted by DjStephenWiley I usually regard EDM listeners and producers as intelligent ethical, and hard working, but it looks like my theory on that is not true.

Does no one in your area do X or LSD?

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Originally posted by Theran I haven't been around for a while, read a little occasionally, but never felt like reacting anymore. However, this I can't go by without giving my opinion. I'm sorry Stephen, but your post is utter bullshit. It's your opinion, so don't period us! So what if he played a lot of the same tracks Oalkenfold played. When you where just a baby boy, Ti�sto already was producing and DJ-ing. The first tracks, he produced himself, after that, he got a producer team behind him which - till this day - produces his tracks for him. Who are you to say that he doesn't give a damn about making quality music! I'm getting so sick of some ignorant pricks that - probably out of jealousy - flame another DJ. Ti�sto did a lot for trance music in general, and still does. I've seen him play a couple of times and it was really great!! He really deserved it to be no1 DJ of the world. Period.

This first part of your gripe is legit. While i'm sure its possible he could have intentionally copied Paul's style; there's no way of proving that.

Tiesto also did a lot for trance; this is true.

However; he definitely is undeserved of the number 1 spot in the dj poll. Just because he does shady bullshit like that and is constantly taking advantage of people.

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Originally posted by Theran I haven't been around for a while, read a little occasionally, but never felt like reacting anymore. However, this I can't go by without giving my opinion. I'm sorry Stephen, but your post is utter bullshit. It's your opinion, so don't period us! So what if he played a lot of the same tracks Oakenfold played. When you where just a baby boy, Ti�sto already was producing and DJ-ing. The first tracks, he produced himself, after that, he got a producer team behind him which - till this day - produces his tracks for him. Who are you to say that he doesn't give a damn about making quality music! I'm getting so sick of some ignorant pricks that - probably out of jealousy - flame another DJ. Ti�sto did a lot for trance music in general, and still does. I've seen him play a couple of times and it was really great!! He really deserved it to be no1 DJ of the world. Period.

#1 Little boy? I'll bet I'm older than you and have been involved in dance music longer as well. I'm well aware of Tiesto's rise to success through the Magik 6 series (The only tune to ever come from those compilations was "Cloud Sixty - 69 Ways" which was produced by our very own Laurent), however; that doesn't mean shit for what is going on in 2009 and what will continue to go on in 2010

#2 So what if he was playing everything Oakenfold played and doing the Jesus pose?!?!?!?!? If that isn't a poser, I don't know what is.

## I CAN say he doesn't give a damn about making quality music because he USED to (key word here is used to) make great music but now it's total garbage and obviously lacks effort and creativity. So instead of using his god given ability, which he made known world wide with great music, he has gone into a shell and turned into another celeb wannabe DJ who hires ghost writers because he can't be bothered to sit around and schedule studio time. And before you get your panties in a wad, all top jock DJ's do this, which is why you hear so many complaints about them.

#5 I'm not flaming anybody. Just stating the facts, but apparently they bother you or you live in a fantasy world. Tiesto is not as good a producer or DJ as he used to be and you won't find anybody who thinks otherwise.

#6 You, sir, are the ignorant prick with an obvious hard on for Tiesto. It couldn't be more obvious. You even put the two dots in the E of his name in your post LOL.

Why don't you do some research before holding strong opinions about things you obviously and completely have no grasp on.

He went where no other dj went before. He is undoubtfully the dj with the most impressive achievements behind his name. Playing on the Olympic games? First dj ever to fill up a stadium around his own persona? That's right, Tiesto.

I've only been present at one live set by him in person which I didn't like at all.

Why this talk about Tiesto at all when Mac & Mac should be the actual subject of this conversation? To bad this subject is highly informative.

And people that complain about his ghost-writers... ROFL! Get a real job, you obviously don't have one if you have time to care about such details. If he wouldn't be as famous as he is this subject wouldn't even have been debated thus I can only conclude Tiesto and the people that surround him are doing a great job.

Tiesto doesn't have "ghost writers" anyway. His collaborators are listed on the album liner notes, which is more than you can say for some people who have hired help.

Re: Re: L O ****ing LLLLL!

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Originally posted by DjStephenWiley I personally love the guitar in Aerosmith's "Dream On" - There is no midi for it, so I just popped it open in Melodyne, opened up the DNA, did a little editing, and bam I had the melody for the song.

Sorry to go off-topic, but Melodyne DNA hasn't been released yet and even the public beta release has been delayed until at least September, from what I've been hearing. How are you using it already?!

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Originally posted by mfitterer1 He owns the label does he not?

On paper, sure, but how much does he actually take part in running it?

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Originally posted by mfitterer1 He owns the label does he not?

If a production is a reproduction of another track it's the artists' problem in most cases. Every decent label has a clause about this stuff making copyright issues the artist his responsibility, which it is anyway as they took the initiative to make this reproduction (assuming they did so consciously). Those are the ones you should be whining about.

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Originally posted by DjStephenWiley #1 Little boy? I'll bet I'm older than you

- hmm, that has nothing to do with it. I said you WHERE are little boy while he started out....

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Originally posted by DjStephenWiley #2 So what if he was playing everything Oakenfold played and doing the Jesus pose?!?!?!?!? If that isn't a poser, I don't know what is

- Again, so what?

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Originally posted by DjStephenWiley #3 I CAN say he doesn't give a damn about making quality music because he USED to (key word here is used to) make great music but now it's total garbage and obviously lacks effort and creativity.

- Please... give me some examples.

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Originally posted by DjStephenWiley #5 I'm not flaming anybody. Just stating the facts, but apparently they bother you or you live in a fantasy world. Tiesto is not as good a producer or DJ as he used to be and you won't find anybody who thinks otherwise.

- Hmm, you're not? Than I have to research the definition of flaming again... Does it bother me that you spread your opinion based on your 'so called facts' (which by the way, I'd love to view), yeah they bother me. And is not about just Ti�sto. Everybody these days think they can have an honest opinion about somebody they don't even know, you talking about him as he was your next door neighbour. All I mean to say is, look at yourself before criticizing another. If he wasn't that good, he wouldn't be at the top of the league.

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Originally posted by DjStephenWiley #6 You, sir, are the ignorant prick with an obvious hard on for Tiesto. It couldn't be more obvious. You even put the two dots in the E of his name in your post LOL.

- And I think you say that because I criticize your opinion, so I let you get away with this one. And yeah, If you make somebody an ass, you could at least spell his name right, and no, I do not have a hard on for him. You think Steven Tyler is good, you have a hard on for him? Didn't think so, little childish there Stephen.

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Originally posted by DjStephenWiley Why don't you do some research before holding strong opinions about things you obviously and completely have no grasp on.

I don't see you doing your research before talking shit about him.

I don't mean to be a dick here Stephen, but don't go bad on somebody. It has no use and you are just wasting your time. The time talking shit about Ti�sto, is time you could spend making music ..

ive been a 4-5 tiesto gigs and they are all great memories. though when downloading his sets its mostly garbage (except 99 stuff), when getting his mix-cds its very up and downs, track selection is usualy good but mixing and how the tracks are put after each other usualy sucks. its like he is not building into anything but instead all the track stands on there own in a random follow. then when listening to his own production albums? my god thats some awfull stuff. and when i came to think of it i have never like a single track by him except for Sparkle (some remix), Traffik and Flight 643. Most of his remixes have a good theme though but the general sound and structure are ass. With this i conclude with this is a dude with a real (and i mean really!) passion for music but without talent of production. He (or his team) can make decent melodies but the rest is just shit (except trafik and flight 643 which i assume is made by a totaly diferent producer).

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Originally posted by DjStephenWiley You even put the two dots in the E of his name in your post LOL.

That made me spit water out my nose; roffl!!!!!!

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Originally posted by Storyteller He went where no other dj went before. He is undoubtfully the dj with the most impressive achievements behind his name. Playing on the Olympic games? First dj ever to fill up a stadium around his own persona? That's right, Tiesto. I've only been present at one live set by him in person which I didn't like at all. Why this talk about Tiesto at all when Mac & Mac should be the actual subject of this conversation? To bad this subject is highly informative. And people that complain about his ghost-writers... ROFL! Get a real job, you obviously don't have one if you have time to care about such details. If he wouldn't be as famous as he is this subject wouldn't even have been debated thus I can only conclude Tiesto and the people that surround him are doing a great job.

Tiesto was brought up because he owns Magic Muzik. The Label that put out the tracks. he has been implicated and accused of stealing melody's in the past so this is nothing new. That's why he was brought up.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Tiesto doesn't have "ghost writers" anyway. His collaborators are listed on the album liner notes, which is more than you can say for some people who have hired help.

This is true, he has always listed the co producers/engineers. Yet it's done so only industry folk understand it. So i'm meh on respecting the fact he does it. Like said before it should be in the title as a co production.

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Originally posted by Theran If he wasn't that good, he wouldn't be at the top of the league.

I don't wanna get involved in you guys argument but this is definitely not true. This in fact is how he stays on top despite all of the negative press that surrounds him. He is a brand; an image, and a huge ass team. Tiesto himself and his talent does very little to keep himself at the top. It's all about sales. He has the mainstream market tapped and that's why he will continue to reside at the top despite many of his problems and lackings.

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