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Music & Technology Education or Conservative Education?

Hi all,

This is a heavily complex situation that essentially boils down to me deciding whether to study music & technology at as an international (more expensive) University student (more expensive all be it studying what I'm 'passionate' about) or doing music in combination/on my own whilst pursuing a more 'conservative' education at a local (less expensive) but reputable University.

I wonder if a BA degree in Music & technology would be something that wouldn't stand up well if things didn't 'go to plan'? Obviously a more conservative education resulting in a BS or something of the sort would be superior in this sense, but I'm wondering if the BA in Music & technology would stand up at all in less fruitful times. I also wonder if, though undoubtedly I'd learn things in the course, I'd be fine without the formal instruction, as many people end up that way in the industry?

I'm sure there have been a plethora of threads on this in the past, but as I'm under very real time constraints, and as such, I'd very much appreciate some advice/thoughts on the matter.

EDIT: apostrophes around 'passionate' are simply there because I feel the word has lost a lot of its gravity as it is thrown around by certain people who aren't really 'passionate' about what they say they are...so I feel a little off saying it sometimes

Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

From personal experience I would learn everything on your own. You really dont need to study a degree to gain an exceptional understanding of music technology and its related subjects.

BTW Having a degree in music technology (in the uk anyway) will not get you a job in anything music related. You are much much more likely to get a job in music if you are knowledgable in that field and have done work experience, had previous achievments and of course have contacts etc.

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Originally posted by xphonix From personal experience I would learn everything on your own. You really dont need to study a degree to gain an exceptional understanding of music technology and its related subjects. BTW Having a degree in music technology (in the uk anyway) will not get you a job in anything music related. You are much much more likely to get a job in music if you are knowledgable in that field and have done work experience, had previous achievments and of course have contacts etc.

Thanks for your response. I hear and understand what you're saying about being able to be self taught and have a mastery over it.

As for having a degree in music technology--does it make any difference that the program is music AND technology (as in not just learning to be an engineer or being taught 'gear' rather than concepts)?

What do you mean by "conservative" education? Something dependable like engineering or accounting?

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles What do you mean by "conservative" education? Something dependable like engineering or accounting?

Conservative by ways of comparison. Undecided as of now, but a bachelors of science in something most likely. Zoology or cellular biology might be avenues I'd look at, both of which aren't as inherently vocational as an engineer or accountant, but are seemingly/more commonly perceived as "safer" in the current climate than a degree in music

Have you considered majoring in the more "conservative" degree and getting a minor in music technology or something related? If it was me, I'd be very skeptical that I could land a good paying job with a degree in anything music related in today's climate, and it sounds to me like you're already concerned about that as well. Speaking as a guy who got a degree in music (BA in Theory/Composition) and went on to get a BS and MS in biology, looking back, I'm glad I decided to change directions. I have a great job as a scientist and can afford (along with my wife's income) to live comfortably in a nice house, raise our son, etc., and still afford the toys I want for my music and other hobbies. I make music on my time and when I feel like it and on my own terms, without having the burden of it be my job, meeting deadlines or other people's expectations, etc. which for me personally, would probably cause me to lose interest in it.

I had the option to pursue a music education but went into engineering instead. Of course I'm not doing either as a career now, but I can say without hesitation that I'm way better off with the engineering degree than I would have been with a BA in music.

The thing is, if you've got a decent-paying "regular" job then you can always keep at the music on the side. But if music is your career then you can't exactly get a lucrative white-collar job on the side - as a musician/producer/whatever, you're going to be living very frugally unless you make it to superstar status.

Also, with music, especially electronic music and production, nobody really cares about your credentials, they just care about product. There are exceptions, but generally you're not going to find yourself at any advantage with a BA. If you want to learn the material, you can always take the courses individually, at your own pace, and not worry about the piece of paper.

I'd say it just isn't worth the risk - if you have the opportunity to get an education in a field that's in relatively high demand, go with that.

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Originally posted by DigiNut Also, with music, especially electronic music and production, nobody really cares about your credentials, they just care about product. There are exceptions, but generally you're not going to find yourself at any advantage with a BA. If you want to learn the material, you can always take the courses individually, at your own pace, and not worry about the piece of paper.

I agree. Also, I'd add that, in my observations, well-rounded experience balanced with in-depth expertise in a few areas are probably more important credentials to have than a degree in music (unless perhaps you plan on teaching).

Thanks Cryo and Digi...

Unfortunately I can't minor in it, as of the Universities I'm able to go to, only one has Music and Technology as a major, and that's the one abroad (meaning considerably more expensive, and therefor not where I'd be looking to get a degree matching something I could get here for much less, as or more reputable). I spoke to my old record label manager and he's pretty jaded on the music degrees too, saying that most of the people he knows who did that at Uni wound up as frustrated artists teaching to make a living. If I was less of an over-thinker, I may have just gone for it, as it's in a different country, I want a big change like that, it'd make for good life skills and I'd be doing what I love to do...but I listen to the reasonable side of myself as well, and it's not really bought the viability of the degree so far

Don't think I've had someone say it's a great idea beyond highlight the area of sound design and how I'd get better at that, but I want nothing but honest opinions so I'm grateful for the input

will im going to be studying audio and video technology in october at uni. 90% if graduates find work within 6 months in various fields. its what i enjoy doin plus it covers other areas which i have never thought about and to be a sound engineer at the end would be pretty cool.

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Originally posted by sterilis will im going to be studying audio and video technology in october at uni. 90% if graduates find work within 6 months in various fields. its what i enjoy doin plus it covers other areas which i have never thought about and to be a sound engineer at the end would be pretty cool.

Well that's certainly an attractive percentage!

Does the same principle of being able to be self taught/'let the talent speak for itself' hold true for areas in sound design for media (meaning video games, adverts, etc)?

I was browsing through video game companies' job occupancies, and saw this as a requirement for an audio position:

"University degree in music, sound engineering or equivalent."

That seems like one of the few instances I've seen in my time looking into this where it's been to your advantage to have a degree like that. Is this rather uncommon, then? Or could equivalent simply mean bachelors degree+strong portfolio/demo reel?

Having the experience through a conservative and a technical school. I would say do whatever that makes you happy.

Id go for something in engineering. I'm taking mechanical engineering. Which basicly means I will always be needed. Always. Its a pretty broad field..covers everything from engines to structures, and anything else that uses gears and chains and sprockets and such. Maby I will get a job at Rolex :P

Problem getting a degree in audio or visual is.. 99% of the time, it depends on the economy and its based on entertainment, which changes all the time. No matter how bad the economy is, you need mechanical engineers..but a guy who can use virtualdub and photoshop?...I don't know man.

I'm starting a Music Technology course in September. Quoted from their prospectus:

"Successful students can pursue a career in computer music, production techniques and sound engineering. Employment opportunities also exist in radio, television and teaching."

Maybe it's bullshit, but i'm just taking it for the expierience.

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Originally posted by sterilis 90% if graduates find work within 6 months in various fields.

Not to nitpick, but I think "various" is the key word - how many find work within their chosen field?

90% is actually not such a great statistic. Right now that's exactly on par with the U.S. unemployment rate - depending on where you live it may even be higher than the unemployment rate. Some of the more expensive post-grad programs here actually guarantee that you'll find a job within 3 months AND above a certain pay level, otherwise you don't have to pay the tuition. Others are a little less aggressive but still post something like 98-99% employment rates, and within 2-3 months not 6 months.

It may not sound like much, but it's the difference between 1 in 10 being unemployed (or employed in some totally unrelated field) and 1 in 100. Think about it.

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Originally posted by xphonix BTW Having a degree in music technology (in the uk anyway) will not get you a job in anything music related. You are much much more likely to get a job in music if you are knowledgable in that field and have done work experience, had previous achievments and of course have contacts etc.

This is bullshit I am doing a degree in music tech and part of my course is to go out to major labels and help in studios meet contacts etc etc. My teachers have also offered me paid work outside of university plus the networking with bands musicians and not to mention the record company contest that was held last year to get signed or a job etc.

Dont post stuff you dont know about just because you cant get work dont mean we (me) cant or doesn't.

plus having a degree in anything can get you onto graduate programs for example the council here are advertising for any graduates to train to be health and safety advisors to the council starting on �30k

Fujitsu took my friend on as an account manager with a degree in geography and he earns 40k oh and my friends girl has got a job in HR with a degree in geology.

Dont be negative people like you put people of following the music ed route.

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Originally posted by sixofour.604 Id go for something in engineering.

I agree with this.

Engineering is very closely linked with music and is a degree that is actually worth something. "Music Technology" is a bullshit degree that any dumbass can do and is thus of questionable value. If I was a betting man, I'd say you could get industry internships just as easily without a music degree, so long as you actually knew what you were doing.

If you do engineering, you'll have opportunities to specialise in areas of math, physics and DSP that are specific to music. I think this is the best choice. This will give you a massive edge over the typical "oh hi i can use protools/plug in a compressor/set up a PA" noob. Likewise, if your career doesn't work out too well in the music industry (pretty likely), you can do music related engineering - DSP programming, circuit design, acoustics etc.

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Originally posted by echosystm I agree with this. . "Music Technology" is a bullshit degree that any dumbass can do and is thus of questionable value.

Lol thats a silly thing to say my course includes music history where I have to do university level harvard referenced 5000+ word essays on for example how "music has influenced or contributed to racism in america" Your average idiot prob couldnt do that.

It also includes contextual studies where I have to do uni level discussion essays and public speaking.

In compositon we look at how music is composed and song writing its effect on mood etc.

I also study music industry where I had to give a 20 minute presentation on how copyright works and Digital rights management.

We also cover music theory where nexy year I will be transposing classical pieces into concert pitch which i dont even understand yet but it sounds like something an idiot couldnt do.

Oh and we get to do studio work for example putting music to film or recording local bands using protools and writing essays on cubase vs logic or things like that.

People unless you have a degree in music tech or ar studying for one then you cant comment that its useless as you do not know whats its about.

Echo do you think we sit around learning how to make a drum beat in reason?

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Originally posted by Sonic_c Lol thats a silly thing to say my course includes music history where I have to do university level harvard referenced 5000+ word essays on for example how "music has influenced or contributed to racism in america" Your average idiot prob couldnt do that.

Every degree includes this and from my experience it's a load of shit anyway.

I would play it safe and make music a hobbie. If you're good enough, you'll become a superstar. If not, well you'll have a nice paying job to fall back on

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Originally posted by Fledz Every degree includes this and from my experience it's a load of shit

No not every degree includes this my girl is doing a music related degree that has no assignments apart from practical ones such as guitar pieces etc. Again misinformed.

Secondly doing a degree that teaches Proffesional writing, research, public speaking, industry workings, and all the music tech associated things is a good thing.

I can go to an employer and say I can research etc etc even if its not a music related job. Employers just want to see a person can see things through and is driven enough to get a degree.

You only need to specialise in say engineering if you are going to be an engineer or hairdressing if you want to be a hairdresser etc.

if you dont have a specialist job in mind and are interested in music then music degrees are the same as all the others just as long as you point that out in your job interviews etc by highlighting the skills i mentioned earlier.

I used to have a little recuruitment company so I know a degree is a degree unless ur applying for a specific role.

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Originally posted by psymon.d Thanks Cryo and Digi... Unfortunately I can't minor in it, as of the Universities I'm able to go to, only one has Music and Technology as a major, and that's the one abroad (meaning considerably more expensive, and therefor not where I'd be looking to get a degree matching something I could get here for much less, as or more reputable). I spoke to my old record label manager and he's pretty jaded on the music degrees too, saying that most of the people he knows who did that at Uni wound up as frustrated artists teaching to make a living. If I was less of an over-thinker, I may have just gone for it, as it's in a different country, I want a big change like that, it'd make for good life skills and I'd be doing what I love to do...but I listen to the reasonable side of myself as well, and it's not really bought the viability of the degree so far Don't think I've had someone say it's a great idea beyond highlight the area of sound design and how I'd get better at that, but I want nothing but honest opinions so I'm grateful for the input

Where exactly are you going?

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Originally posted by psymon.d I was browsing through video game companies' job occupancies, and saw this as a requirement for an audio position: "University degree in music, sound engineering or equivalent." That seems like one of the few instances I've seen in my time looking into this where it's been to your advantage to have a degree like that. Is this rather uncommon, then? Or could equivalent simply mean bachelors degree+strong portfolio/demo reel?

If you have a nice portfolio or demos though that will more than qualify for the "or equivalent"

quote:

Originally posted by Sonic_c Lol thats a silly thing to say my course includes music history where I have to do university level harvard referenced 5000+ word essays on for example how "music has influenced or contributed to racism in america" Your average idiot prob couldnt do that. It also includes contextual studies where I have to do uni level discussion essays and public speaking. In compositon we look at how music is composed and song writing its effect on mood etc. I also study music industry where I had to give a 20 minute presentation on how copyright works and Digital rights management. We also cover music theory where nexy year I will be transposing classical pieces into concert pitch which i dont even understand yet but it sounds like something an idiot couldnt do. Oh and we get to do studio work for example putting music to film or recording local bands using protools and writing essays on cubase vs logic or things like that. People unless you have a degree in music tech or ar studying for one then you cant comment that its useless as you do not know whats its about. Echo do you think we sit around learning how to make a drum beat in reason?

I (plus many friends) have had jobs in the industry and i have never ever heard of anyone asking or requiring a qualification in music tech. This may sound bad but is the truth 100%.

I am just stating the truth. Sorry. I would love you you to prove me wrong.

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Originally posted by xphonix I (plus many friends) have had jobs in the industry and i have never ever heard of anyone asking or requiring a qualification in music tech. This may sound bad but is the truth 100%. I am just stating the truth. Sorry. I would love you you to prove me wrong.

Im not saying for a job in the industry if you read my posts I am just saying that if your not sure what job you want to do in life and just want to study for a degree then a music degree providing you find a varied course can be as valueable as any other.

I gave examples of my friends that got unrelated degrees to the jobs they are in now but earn good money and would not have got the job without a degree of some sort.

My point is if you want to be a scientist do a science degree but if your just wanting a degree then people saying music degrees a bullshit are wrong as they still require the student to be academic, they are also nice if you love music the way we all do, and are also handy for networking and wouldn't hurt should you wish to pursue a career in the industry however hard that might be.

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