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-- the structure of build up's

the structure of build up's

I'm wondering if anyone could help me out, i'm basically always stuck at getting really good build up's at the breakdown of the song just before it starts into the main chorus, the ones with lots of energy to them so that it sounds exciting. i know about uplifting sounds like white noise etc but it's the actual structure of the build up's is where i'm lost.



So could anyone explain this a little or could do a tutorial on it.

any help would be grateful


Waza

Are you talking about from a typical epic trance perspective?

Just keep adding percussive elements, at a quicker and quicker rate, right up to the buildup's end.

Totally cliche kick drum example:

K---|---K---|----K---K---K---K---K-K-K-K-K-K-K-K-KKKKKKKK


Not really sure what you mean, outside of that. Most of that sort of buildup is uplifting sounds/fx (white noise, highpass filter, etc.)

Maybe post an example for further help.

its all about creating tension ie thinking in reverse transitions are very widely used to. when you make a track do you start at the top or the bottom because in most cases it's best to start at the bottom with kick bass and percussion.

i'm talking about the tension of the track,

i have all the structure in place from verse to bridge and even main melody all i need to do is build the tension from the bridge to the main melody. I do bring stuff like fx etc into it but always feel it lacks energy.

Octave changes can sometimes help....ultimately (and obviously) you need change.

Usually by the addition of elements, although maybe by taking them away. Uplifting and tension building stuff is as others pointed done by adding more elements to a track and progressively adding them more quickly. Use white noise sweeps and play with filter automation on your lead sounds. Automating your filter is classic. I'd avoid the snare rolls and kick rolls unless you're talking break down. Just automate your resonance and actually up the volume on the sounds you're trying to build. (Automate it up and automate the volume down of whatever you feel is hurting the energy)

Though it's a fairly cheap trick, I'm still a fan of a steadily increasing reverb on the entire track/master channel which cuts back off at the finish of the buildup.

Have you tried automating the release of notes on certain tracks (like leads or bass) so that notes get progressively longer and more powerful. That and the reverb thing above work well.

quote:

Originally posted by Waza i'm talking about the tension of the track, i have all the structure in place from verse to bridge and even main melody all i need to do is build the tension from the bridge to the main melody. I do bring stuff like fx etc into it but always feel it lacks energy.

maybe post up an audio sample of that section so people can comment on it that way, that may be best!

But the real trick is in making sure after that massive build, the momentum and power continues into the chorus - sounds obvious - but loads of tracks suffer with a chorus less powerful than the build, so it's a very fine balance to achieve.

I've really gone off kick / snare rolls.

quote:

Originally posted by david.michael Though it's a fairly cheap trick, I'm still a fan of a steadily increasing reverb on the entire track/master channel which cuts back off at the finish of the buildup.

Love it lol easy as hell but loads of fun when someone does it on a dancefloor

quote:

Originally posted by Sonic_c Love it lol easy as hell but loads of fun when someone does it on a dancefloor

Yeah, I fully admit it's a cliche and cheap trick, but I like it anyway. Sometimes I'll do this "live" on the mixer when DJing with a reverb effect (and also cutting frequencies slowly out with EQ or filter).

quote:

Originally posted by Waza i'm talking about the tension of the track, i have all the structure in place from verse to bridge and even main melody all i need to do is build the tension from the bridge to the main melody. I do bring stuff like fx etc into it but always feel it lacks energy.

Usually I work in 16 bar increments since it gives my elements more time to develop; and then when I'm trying to build tension I'll still be in 16 bar increments but add in minute details in 8 bar increments to give things a feeling of building/speeding up quickly. An example is adding clap/snare/hi hats during a breakdown and truncating note lengths and variations as the end of the build gets closer and closer.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler But the real trick is in making sure after that massive build, the momentum and power continues into the chorus - sounds obvious - but loads of tracks suffer with a chorus less powerful than the build, so it's a very fine balance to achieve. I've really gone off kick / snare rolls.

This is actually a thing I see happening way too much. people do this epicly long amazing build and then they don't transfer the energy through; makes me very sad

quote:

Originally posted by mfitterer1 This is actually a thing I see happening way too much. people do this epicly long amazing build and then they don't transfer the energy through; makes me very sad

I agree.. But equally, it can be just as effective to actually drop it right back down again to some of the key elements straight after the massive build up/tension/crescendo - maybe even just the kick and bassline.. And then progress it upwards again to the next break, or full-on drop.. A lot of artists do this nowadays..

i'll post a sample up of the tune i'm working on when i get home.

all good info here thanks.

and when it goes into the chorus so you can let me know how it sounds.

Waza

I have a very good tip for you.

One of the easiest but most effective techniques there is. And I may sound sarcastic but truly I am sincere when I tell you to analyze tracks! If you want to get your tracks up to a certain standard you should listen analytically to the kind of music you wanna compare to! All the time, not just once or twice to a couple of tracks! Listening analytically with sharp ears to music, seperating elements, interpreting production techniques and understanding composition is an artform in and of itself. Going back and forth, comprehending all happenings and transitions.

Ever heard this phrase before?

"Listen and learn!"

There's something to it.


Hope it helps!


PS: If you want an understanding of how to build tension in a break listen to.. no not just listen to... listen analytically to Ocean Drive Boulevard by Leon Bolier.

^^^^ Very, very good point.

Monkey hear, monkey do.

Many producers will tell beginners that a good way of learning to produce is trying to replicate your favorite tracks. Waza, you are obviously no beginner as I have heard the quality of your work, but as the poster mentioned above, perhaps some critical listening would really help. Find things in tracks you like and re-create them. If you hit a wall, post a clip on here and see if somebody can help. Rinse, repeat, and get better every day.

Cheers LenieNt for the tips and actually your right in this, so this weekend i'll have a look at the track you said.

also thanks stephen on your coments, the track you heard has changed alot, i just need to get the build up dpwn to the way i want it and i'll let you have a listen to it again.

Some techniques I use:

White noise with low pass filter slowly opening filter. Can do the same with pad, melody etc.
Same again with HP filter and also using both in conjunction i.e. two different sounds, one opening one closing. This also works great with pads.

Typical drums rolls as explained earlier increasing drum activity mainly on kicks, hats and crashes.

changing the pitch of a constant synth sound either using lfo or pitch modulation with huge range.

If you have a melody that is say 16 bars that has been playing up to the break, at the break only repeat the first 4 or 8 bars so it becomes repetitive then on the last 16 bar section before the beat cuts in again, play the whole melody again but add a couple of unexpected note changes on the last few bars. Even do all of this but up an octave.

It sometimes helps to do all of the above but cut it all before the main beat and throw in something completely new.

Adding more reverb slowly or increasing the release on the synth melody also produces great fx.

Now do all of this in one break and you will have created some great tension to drop in the phatest beat ever!!

As somebody mentioned previously, it's all about change and getting a balance between predictability and unpredictability

quote:

Originally posted by Waza Cheers LenieNt for the tips and actually your right in this, so this weekend i'll have a look at the track you said. also thanks stephen on your coments, the track you heard has changed alot, i just need to get the build up dpwn to the way i want it and i'll let you have a listen to it again.

Leon is a true master of his craft so don't get discouraged if you don't get as much energy to it as he does. Bare in mind that track has one of the best breaks ever made, when it comes to energy build (not kidding. my personal opinion.)

Usually I do typical reverb/drum rolls/uplifting effects that lead up to the last 2 measures of the buildup, then I'll usually add a crash or a reverb kick or something. I let the background stuff play as normal for those two measures, maybe add another uplifter behind it or a small snare roll. Those two relatively calm measures allow for a better lead into the section when you reintroduce the beat, and it's especially helpful if you think that part is typically less energetic than the build-up.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about :

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...8&forumid=74&s=

quote:

Originally posted by lenieNt Force Leon is a true master of his craft so don't get discouraged if you don't get as much energy to it as he does. Bare in mind that track has one of the best breaks ever made, when it comes to energy build (not kidding. my personal opinion.)

Agreed. One of my fav breaks/tracks of all time. Such an amazing masterpiece. Dudes a God of the production realms.

Ok here's what i've done so far.

let me know what you think and what to add etc.


cheers.


Sample

quote:

Originally posted by Waza Ok here's what i've done so far. let me know what you think and what to add etc. cheers. Sample

Sounds good although I'd personally like it more if it went straight into the chorus instead of evaporating into nothing for a few bars like it did. After the kick roll just do a smaller 1/2 or 1 bar fill and then get into the chorus; it will transfer the energy better.

A god tip for this would be to use existing tracks taken from the genre you are producing which have proved successful when it comes to the breakdown/drop.

Insert a track (beat match/time stretch to your tracks bpm). Then by users time markers map the breakdown so you can see where elements are being added and what elements are being added.

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