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To listen and follow the advice of the popular producers, or not?

I personally have refrained from critically listening to tracks I enjoy. I have taken parts of various random tracks and tried to recreate them though.

Here is my question, just wondering what others think....

Do you think it is smart to listen to and yield advice from producers and try to do the things they do in order to achieve whatever it is you're trying to achieve.


OR


Do you think it is a smart idea to distant yourself from ideas/recommendations from "professionals" and not watch their tutorials. At first, this sounds really dumb, but I think we can all agree that music is beyond stagnant, and one of the reasons is because everybody wants to do what everybody is doing. Well, what if we just quit trying to learn the tricks from others and spent hard work making our own? Wouldn't that help to diversify our music (which is needed badly)) ?


I know most of you are going to say that the answer falls somewhere in between these two extremes, but let's pick one and go with it. I personally think avoiding major advice and trying to do what successful producers do is not a good idea. I think that learning and developing your own style, tricks, FX chains, and whatever else is beyond better for too many reasons to list but I'll name a few. At the end of the day, you'll be a better producer for it and it will most likely increase your ability for creativity. It will without question help you to become more efficient with the synths and plug-ins you are using because you'll be doing a lot of experimentation and not copying settings from somebody else or loading Deadmau5's Lead preset. I think younger producers like me should always ask for help, but I feel that now (more than ever,) that producers need to quit trying to do what others do and create their own tricks and brand their own styles. I personally havn't fully listened to a DJ mix from somebody else other than my own in the past year. It's not that I think I'm the best or anything, but in the past I found mixes I listened to rubbing off into my sets (playing the same tracks) and I didn't like it. Now that I completely ignore the "big names" I enjoy DJing much more and take a lot more pride in my mixes because I picked out the tunes myself and didn't rely on the latest track listing from "insert flavor of the month here"

As for watching video production tutorials from "big name" producers I've watched 5 or less over the past year. Not trying to brag or anything here, that's just how I operate. I've got nothing bad to say about others on the other side of the fence except, in my opinion, they're adding to the stagnation of current EDM.

Just my .02 cents.

What is yours.

I think that tutorials and recommendations are two different things. You can watch tutorials to learn new techniques, understand your tools better, etc. and apply those techniques and tools to your own compositions. To me, that's not the same thing as a recommendation by the other producer that you should use those tools/techniques.

In my mind, the only thing that you should do is what you think works for your song. That's one of the reasons I hate (and usually ignore) comments from other forum members who say things like "...you need to add this, or you need to change that...". That's total BS - we don't need to do anything with our songs just because someone else says so - they have no idea what your vision of the song is. That's not to say that their suggestions are no good, but they aren't necessities. So, my advice is to just take recommendations for what they're worth, consider the person making them, and consider if it fits your vision of your track.

Well, i really think it depends on what you do with the information extracted from any tutorial.
You can just copy and apply it to your track (if it works) or you can use the information and take it as a foundation for an extended approach (something the original author wasn't thinking about).
So, it doesn't hurt to know what others do, it could be helpful in another way.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik I think that tutorials and recommendations are two different things. You can watch tutorials to learn new techniques, understand your tools better, etc. and apply those techniques and tools to your own compositions. To me, that's not the same thing as a recommendation by the other producer that you should use those tools/techniques. In my mind, the only thing that you should do is what you think works for your song. That's one of the reasons I hate (and usually ignore) comments from other forum members who say things like "...you need to add this, or you need to change that...". That's total BS - we don't need to do anything with our songs just because someone else says so - they have no idea what your vision of the song is. That's not to say that their suggestions are no good, but they aren't necessities. So, my advice is to just take recommendations for what they're worth, consider the person making them, and consider if it fits your vision of your track.

Good point there Cryo

me personaly i like to try and recreate a certain bassline or lead etc just to polish up on my sound design, it's a little satisfying know that i can create those patches.


I also like watching tutorials as you do learn different techniques if you already dont know how to create them/ every day is a school day. (a long time ago lol.


I don't see the harm in recreating the structure of a sound or arrangement from someone else, but it's also good to have your own style and sounds.

I think producing is a lot like dancing in that it takes a while before you can produce with your own unique style. When you start out, you're not really trying to completely reinvent the wheel; you probably copy someone very influential and as you go along you pick up new and different techniques. You keeps the ones you like, and drop the ones you don't. At the end you have something unique that is totally your own.

Stephen -

You are already working on a platform that several people have helped to build. If you want to take it to extremes, might as go all the way and program your own DAW, engineer your own synths, design your own operating system, etc.

Depending on what DAW you use, it will influence you to work in certain ways and every DAW has it's own limitations. If you really wanted to free yourself you would have to make your own.

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux I think producing is a lot like dancing in that it takes a while before you can produce with your own unique style. When you start out, you're not really trying to completely reinvent the wheel; you probably copy someone very influential and as you go along you pick up new and different techniques. You keeps the ones you like, and drop the ones you don't. At the end you have something unique that is totally your own. Stephen - You are already working on a platform that several people have helped to build. If you want to take it to extremes, might as go all the way and program your own DAW, engineer your own synths, design your own operating system, etc. Depending on what DAW you use, it will influence you to work in certain ways and every DAW has it's own limitations. If you really wanted to free yourself you would have to make your own.

That's quite a stretch there dude. Irrational to say the least - re-read the OP more carefully and maybe you ill see what I'm trying to get at.

It's just a two part question. No need to bring up something that will never be done.

Knowledge is power. It's the producers inproper execution of the knowledge that is the problem.

Re: To listen and follow the advice of the popular producers, or not?

quote:

Originally posted by DjStephenWiley At first, this sounds really dumb, but I think we can all agree that music is beyond stagnant, and one of the reasons is because everybody wants to do what everybody is doing. Well, what if we just quit trying to learn the tricks from others and spent hard work making our own? Wouldn't that help to diversify our music (which is needed badly)) ?

You don't think the design of synths and DAWs has an affect on how people make music? When you use synths and DAWs you're using someone else's ideas on what a DAW or synth should be like. You're working the way they think you should work.

Using someone else's idea is using someone else's ideas.

One of the major comments I get on all my tracks is that its different, and it probably has to do with the fact that Ive heard alot less music than one would think. I'm not the guy who gets every album from every artist and blasts through them, and goes to clubs and gets exposed to a clusterfuck of music. My entier music collection is about 4 gigs of mp3s... ranging from pretty much every genra there is, you do the math. And I also rarely take advice from others thats not technical. In that reguard Id say it helped, of course now there is the simple fact that most of my music is niche...doesn't appeal to any mass of people. It won't make me famous or make me money. Unless one of my tracks magicly starts a forest fire in the music industry....unlikely.

/advert

Oh and btw, on linux, you can design your own daw :P I know about 4 DAWs right now on linux, all open source, you can modify them to your hearts content.

/advert

Re: Re: To listen and follow the advice of the popular producers, or not?

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux You don't think the design of synths and DAWs has an affect on how people make music? When you use synths and DAWs you're using someone else's ideas on what a DAW or synth should be like. You're working the way they think you should work. Using someone else's idea is using someone else's ideas.

Synths and DAW's are tools, Are you saying using a ratchet or a crescent wrench for construction is oblique intented because somebody else created the tool? the end result tells all. I love unique sounding tunes, and i also love formulaic rollercoasters a la Airbase. If your productions sound like a direct rip off, then your subject to scrutinization and harsh criticism. I personally like pushing the envelopes the top producers hammer, for a more original sound.

Personally I started making my own style and didnt think much about the rest. That resulted in many shitty songs that only my closest buddies have heard.

Now when I now what I want Ive been looking on the different parts I need to get better. So even if I copy or get inspired by some things the ground is always mine.

The learning curve probably gets longer but Ive always wanted my own sound so this was the only right thing to do in my case.

Cant say I dont listen to peoples advise though, that would be foolish IMO

I think in the beginning...maybe the first few years of
producing is ok...but once you know what your doing...
its time to go your own path...time to ween yourself
off the pros.

No need to go sounding all weird and artsy though...

Re: To listen and follow the advice of the popular producers, or not?

quote:

Originally posted by DjStephenWiley I know most of you are going to say that the answer falls somewhere in between these two extremes, but let's pick one and go with it. I personally think avoiding major advice and trying to do what successful producers do is not a good idea.

I have an issue with this part of your argument. You say "let's pick an extreme" and follow that immediately with "avoiding MAJOR advice".

Already you've started moving away from the extreme towards the middle - can you define what "major advice" and "minor advice" are? Where do you personally draw the line?

edit - actually, I'm not sure what you meant with that sentence - "avoiding major advice and trying to do what successful producers do".

no amount of `not listening` will correct bad taste. The more knowledge , the more power.

Isn't "taste" simply determined by how common your sound is, And the general public's view of that sound?

i have come to learn that over the last year and never before posting on a music form has led to learning new tricks from people/pros and landed up not making any tracks i felt happy with.

it must come down to thinking way to hard about what you make or in this case not make.

i have often contemplated cutting myself out of the loop because in the end i just want to make intresting and orignal tunes.and as time goes on the idea grows more tempting.

quote:

Originally posted by owien i have often contemplated cutting myself out of the loop because in the end i just want to make intresting and orignal tunes.and as time goes on the idea grows more tempting.

Nothing to think about really, I have often been in that situation myself when I "have" to do a track in a certain style and just end up with a boring loop that go nowhere.

Try to do a song you feel is right for you and see what happens. Its not like the end of the world if the result isnt played on ASOT.

I was wondering on whether to mention anything in this thread. As its pretty much been covered by everyone else here. But i am new to producing music, well been at it for 4 years or so and i personally feel that its an advantage to receive information/advice from those more advanced than yourself.

I know we could argue that its debatable as to whether this will become your advantage as it may in fact hinder your progress more so than advance it (as there are multiple means to an end) some more correct then others. But in saying that, its definitely a worth while experience learning from others as they help lay a foundation to which one can work from rather then playing a guessing game on procedure etc etc (which, i guess can be fun as well) then, as you progress and develop your own knowledge/style methodology you able reflect on what was of benefit, and what was of no benefit.

"Its the nature - nurture debate".

Re: Re: Re: To listen and follow the advice of the popular producers, or not?

quote:

Originally posted by Kthought Synths and DAW's are tools, Are you saying using a ratchet or a crescent wrench for construction is oblique intented because somebody else created the tool?

No.

quote:

Originally posted by RichieV no amount of `not listening` will correct bad taste. The more knowledge , the more power.

Yupppppp.

quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 Isn't "taste" simply determined by how common your sound is, And the general public's view of that sound?

No it can refer to a technical aspect as well. In fact just about anything can be referred to as "taste". Taste is a fancy word for opinion.

you have to imitate before you can innovate

Re: To listen and follow the advice of the popular producers, or not?

quote:

Originally posted by DjStephenWiley I personally havn't fully listened to a DJ mix from somebody else other than my own in the past year. It's not that I think I'm the best or anything, but in the past I found mixes I listened to rubbing off into my sets (playing the same tracks) and I didn't like it. Now that I completely ignore the "big names" I enjoy DJing much more and take a lot more pride in my mixes because I picked out the tunes myself and didn't rely on the latest track listing from "insert flavor of the month here"

I think you got the right idea with your DJing. I'm doing that with producing these days, I don't listen to any EDM at all. OK, that's taking if way further than can be expected. It's mostly because I'm totally burned out on listening to EDM.

I haven't watched one producer video. Instructional videos bore me, I just don't have time for that. Would it hurt me to watch one? Probably not, I tend to do my own thing, regardless. I can it see it holding some producers back, if all they do is mimic other producers techniques. If you want to innovate, or develop your own sound, you need to eventually get away from other influences. Tinker and experiment on your own. You'll learn and grow more that way.

i kind of hinting at something similar not too long ago.

i think people could do with more distancing personally. not because it's bad to listen to others, but because people end up trying to copy things that they hear. i think especially in the beginning the reason there is so much great music is that producers made music from their soul. they had ideas that they wanted to translate into sound and they did it. that's why they have tons of aliases with different genres etc, they didn't want any limits and explored them. i don't think enough people do that anymore and if they do they end up thinking "boy this is really crappy, look at these tracks i like, mine don't measure up". well that's not really they case you just have to let the music come out of you and stop comparing your work to others. chances are someone out there is going to enjoy it, you just have to find that audience.

i think it's great to listen to music and appreciate artists that do take a creative approach to their work, but if you are a producer, you should listen to work for inspiration and then go and do whatever you feel, not what you think people want to hear or what you think will sell. just make what's in your heart and be yourself. approach your music with your thoughts and ideas. what inspires you? a picture? a book? a concept? put it into music. that's what the beginning was about. what is space like? what would living underwater be like? how can i explain that acid trip i had? what is it like sitting outside on a sunny day? it's endless. put it into the universal language, music.

Re: Re: To listen and follow the advice of the popular producers, or not?

quote:

Originally posted by zodiac9 I think you got the right idea with your DJing. I'm doing that with producing these days, I don't listen to any EDM at all. OK, that's taking if way further than can be expected. It's mostly because I'm totally burned out on listening to EDM. I haven't watched one producer video. Instructional videos bore me, I just don't have time for that. Would it hurt me to watch one? Probably not, I tend to do my own thing, regardless. I can it see it holding some producers back, if all they do is mimic other producers techniques. If you want to innovate, or develop your own sound, you need to eventually get away from other influences. Tinker and experiment on your own. You'll learn and grow more that way.

haha i'm exactly the same man... since getting more serious about production i never listen to edm anymore, except my own tunes. still listen heaps to music, just not DANCE

i guess i find a lot of edm extremely uninspiring anyway these days... so much of it is so boring and repetitive.. pretty much every major label releases exactly the same song with a slightly different breakdown... i''m not speaking for the whole scene of course, but i find a lot of the time looking for new tunes, on beatport or wherever has become tedious instead of exciting... new imogen heap album on the other hand?? shit yeah!!

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