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Why Obama is a typical left wing social engineer - Soda pop tax???

This goes hand in hand with socialist health care and the left wing's attitude that they should be the ones to dictate lifestyle because "they know better". Sad that this disease is being spread to the US. True its a nation of fat fucks. But thats their decision. The governments role AT THE MOST should be education.

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WASHINGTON (AFP) - President Barack Obama hinted he could support a "sin tax" on fizzy drinks to help lower high rates of US obesity, but admitted it would be an uphill battle against corporate and economic interests. ADVERTISEMENT "I actually think it's an idea that we should be exploring," Obama said in the forthcoming issue of Men's Health, regarding potential taxes levied on soft drinks such as colas and other sugar-filled products. "There's no doubt that our kids drink way too much soda. And every study that's been done about obesity shows that there is as high a correlation between increased soda consumption and obesity as just about anything else," he said in excerpts released ahead of the magazine's mid-September publication. The president -- reported to be one of the fittest US commanders-in-chief in decades -- stressed that "obviously there is resistance on Capitol Hill to those kinds of sin taxes. "Legislators from certain states that produce sugar or corn syrup are sensitive to anything that might reduce demand for those products," he said. In addition, "people's attitude is that they don't necessarily want Big Brother telling them what to eat or drink, and I understand that," Obama added. "It is true, though, that if you wanted to make a big impact on people?s health in this country, reducing things like soda consumption would be helpful." His comments come just six weeks after US health experts told a national conference on obesity in Washington that a significant portion of increased caloric intake in recent decades can be directly attributed to soft drinks and other sugared foods and drinks. The president is currently embroiled in the most compelling domestic priority of his presidency, a reform of the US health care system. Obama, who said he works out nearly every day in order to clear his head and reduce stress, described himself as "a healthy eater" with low blood pressure. He keeps a bowl of apples in the Oval Office. "It was our first step toward health reform," he said. Two-thirds of American adults are obese or overweight and obesity-related illnesses cost the United States nearly 150 billion dollars a year, health officials were told at the July conference.

Why do i get the feeling mcguinty is going to copycat this?

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Originally posted by Jayx1 the left wing's attitude that they..."they know better".

'We know better' is, I'd say, an apt albeit short description of the attitude maintained by many right-wing thinkers.

Re: Why Obama is a typical left wing social engineer - Soda pop tax???

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Originally posted by Jayx1 This goes hand in hand with socialist health care and the left wing's attitude that they should be the ones to dictate lifestyle because "they know better". Sad that this disease is being spread to the US. True its a nation of fat fucks. But thats their decision. The governments role AT THE MOST should be education.

Don't care.

Re: Why Obama is a typical left wing social engineer - Soda pop tax???

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Originally posted by Jayx1 The governments role AT THE MOST should be education.

who are you to say this is as far as it should go? You of all people should recognize the power of education. Look at the war on drugs, termed 'education'....How many truthful facts can you draw off of them. Either they're in, or they're out. Completely. And American health will be poorer if they stay out. Book it.

Re: Why Obama is a typical left wing social engineer - Soda pop tax???

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Originally posted by Jayx1 This goes hand in hand with socialist health care and the left wing's attitude that they should be the ones to dictate lifestyle because "they know better". Sad that this disease is being spread to the US. True its a nation of fat fucks. But thats their decision. The governments role AT THE MOST should be education.

Wait, so you think the Gov can organize education in a good and effective way but not healthcare?

Why not have BOTH? Both Gov sponsored/provided support for education and healthcare etc. Is that so bad?

Re: Re: Why Obama is a typical left wing social engineer - Soda pop tax???

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Originally posted by Sly_Guy Look at the war on drugs, termed 'education'....

Uh... isn't this implying that the government can't really be trusted with education? And given that, why would you go on to say that they should be "in" more things?

Anyway... I'm not touching the healthcare bullshit in yet ANOTHER thread with a 20-foot pole. I will however point out that virtually every canned or bottled drink is owned by one of the soft-drink corporations, and they tend to "harmonize" the prices, which is why you presently pay the same for a bottle of water vs. a can of coke. The net result of this tax would just be a higher cost of living for everyone who eats out; not one person will actually end up drinking any less Pepsi as a result, and they certainly won't be thinner or healthier.

To be honest, I might actually support something like this if it had any hope in hell of actually working. I generally don't have a problem with consumption taxes as opposed to income taxes. But because of the way beverages are produced, distributed, and priced, it won't work, and is therefore just another Obama cash grab to cover up for the fact that Uncle Sam is bleeding money.

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Originally posted by Nick Cenik 'We know better' is, I'd say, an apt albeit short description of the attitude maintained by many right-wing thinkers.

Really? So right wing thinkers are micro engineers? Social conservatives tend not to support things like gay marriage but usually arent nanny state types.

Left wingers love these types of laws. Just look at our own examples. Miller, McGuinty and now Obama.

Re: Re: Why Obama is a typical left wing social engineer - Soda pop tax???

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Originally posted by Sly_Guy who are you to say this is as far as it should go? You of all people should recognize the power of education. Look at the war on drugs, termed 'education'....How many truthful facts can you draw off of them. Either they're in, or they're out. Completely. And American health will be poorer if they stay out. Book it.

At the most means its a stretch to go that far. Who am i to decide how far it should go? I have a better question. Who is the government to decide how we should run our own lives? My premise is simple. If something you do only harms yourself its no one else's business. And spare me the "cost and effect on society" routine because this can be argued against just about anything we do.

The war on drugs is a failure no doubt. But this type of policy is inherently different from the micro engineering that this pop tax represents. I dont agree with either policy. In fact one could argue that the war on drugs led to the idea that a war on sugar drinks is also acceptable. And if thats acceptable, whats the next target?

PS: Both the left and the right in the US has wholeheartedly supported the war on drugs with the exception of some libertarian groups.

Re: Re: Why Obama is a typical left wing social engineer - Soda pop tax???

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Originally posted by The Ear Don't care.

You cared enough to open the thread and read it

Re: Re: Why Obama is a typical left wing social engineer - Soda pop tax???

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Originally posted by Endlesswave Wait, so you think the Gov can organize education in a good and effective way but not healthcare? Why not have BOTH? Both Gov sponsored/provided support for education and healthcare etc. Is that so bad?

Im not against universal health care. Im against a completely public run system. I also think Obama is foolish to thrust a one trillion dollar program onto a nation that is already broke.

The danger socialist healthcare does bring is the next stage of the game where selfish people and governments start feeling it is their right to impose certain lifestyle choices on people in order to save the state run healthcare system money. We already see that here in Canada and even in some of the attitudes of TAs.

As for education, with the scandals that have gone on in our province alone id say that this is yet another government body prone to abuse and waste. But this pales in comparison to what goes on in health care. Just look at ehealth

Re: Re: Why Obama is a typical left wing social engineer - Soda pop tax???

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Originally posted by The Ear Don't care.

Trance what?

Re: Re: Re: Why Obama is a typical left wing social engineer - Soda pop tax???

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Originally posted by Jayx1 At the most means its a stretch to go that far. Who am i to decide how far it should go? I have a better question. Who is the government to decide how we should run our own lives? My premise is simple. If something you do only harms yourself its no one else's business. And spare me the "cost and effect on society" routine because this can be argued against just about anything we do. The war on drugs is a failure no doubt. But this type of policy is inherently different from the micro engineering that this pop tax represents. I dont agree with either policy. In fact one could argue that the war on drugs led to the idea that a war on sugar drinks is also acceptable. And if thats acceptable, whats the next target? PS: Both the left and the right in the US has wholeheartedly supported the war on drugs with the exception of some libertarian groups.

but by saying 'education is as far as it should go' that is an indication that you have passed judgement on just 'how far' the g'ment should step in.

I used the 'war on drugs' analogy not because it was a polarizing issue, but simply because the war on drugs works under the premise that by 'educating' the population means people will make the choice that the g'ment has invested interest in them making. But what they're doing is not education, it's a propaganda campaign. Poll the people outside of a website like this vs the people who on it are about their views on drugs, and I'll guarantee you'll find opposing opinions. But that being said, are the people on this website more likely to be the fuck ups, the general scourge on society that the g'ment drug 'education' would have you believe? Hardly.

Furthermore, our government is comprised of elected officials. Surprise! By doing that, we entrust them to make some of the choices for us. Some of them being tax laws, some of those even to support the infrastructure we as citizens of this great nation all share. I would argue they have far more right to make a choice like this than you do, with your cheap $0.02 on the fact you believe they can only go as far as education.

My point is, education by the government will still either be too much or too little, depending on your point of view, and how much government interference is tolerable. Government by it's very nature is an institution of interference in our lives, we submit to their authority to enjoy the benefits of cooperation among people, so that we can live in relatively comfortable and safe communities, to enjoy health care, running water and roads for our cars. To get these things we give up some of our freedoms. If you don't like it, vote for anarchists next election, or worse, the Conservative Party of Canada.

Government by nature is an interference in our lives? With that attitude we will be communist in no time!

The war on drugs is not just education but heavy handed laws to go with it.

As i said, education is about as far as anyone should go government or otherwise and you completely missed my point that you should have control over your own behaviour when it only adversely affects yourself.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Why Obama is a typical left wing social engineer - Soda pop tax???

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Originally posted by Sly_Guy Government by it's very nature is an institution of interference in our lives

Spoken like a genuine bona-fade authoritarian commie pinko Canadian. Constitutional government is based on the premise of limiting government interference, and assumes that the primary role of government is to prevent interference by other people or governments.

But the philosophical issue is really a moot point here. How many times does the Left need to be shown that taxation is ineffective as a means of social control before they realize that taxation is ineffective as a means of social control?

Digi,

id say its about more than social control. Its their way of grabbing more cash an more power and subverting democracy in the process. Safety, environment and health are byproducts of all the taxes, bylaws and regulations passed IMO.

Parking, Speed Limits, you name it.... just some local examples

I'd love to add a sin tax to your incessant political insights.

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Originally posted by 7-4-7 I'd love to add a sin tax to your incessant political insights.

im sure you would... socialists hate free speech unless they agree with it.

The governement, either ours or theirs, should tax bottled water, IMO. Bottled water is the worst of all drinks to the environment, and a rediculous idiotic waste of money. This overshaddows any harm pop does.

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Originally posted by Abercrombie The governement, either ours or theirs, should tax bottled water, IMO. Bottled water is the worst of all drinks to the environment, and a rediculous idiotic waste of money. This overshaddows any harm pop does.

Just dont buy it if u dont like it!

Personally i think flouride, chlorine, and lead in our drinking water is far worse

You can't argue with fluoride... I does way more good than harm.

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Originally posted by Abercrombie You can't argue with fluoride... I does way more good than harm.

it causes cancer

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Originally posted by Jayx1 it causes cancer

The World Health Organisation in 2005 reiterated its support for water fluoridation stating that at recommended levels it is a highly effective strategy to control dental caries in both children and adults, and is safe for the environment and human health in general

The causes of primary bone cancer are not known and epidemiological studies show no clear association between fluoride in drinking water and osteosarcoma.

don't go there

You fukk with fluoride, you fukk with my dad, a world renowned epidemiologist.

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Originally posted by Abercrombie The World Health Organisation in 2005 reiterated its support for water fluoridation stating that at recommended levels it is a highly effective strategy to control dental caries in both children and adults, and is safe for the environment and human health in general The causes of primary bone cancer are not known and epidemiological studies show no clear association between fluoride in drinking water and osteosarcoma. don't go there You fukk with fluoride, you fukk with my dad, a world renowned epidemiologist.

WHO.. they are also the same characters behind SARS, Bird Flu and Swine Flu.

Regardless of who backs what i choose not to drink fluoride and chlorine in my water just as some choose not to buy bottled water. We all have our own reasons for doing things.

I don't care if they tax it. At least I still have the choice to drink or not drink it. Better a tax than one of their silly bans.

Aren't most obese people also low-income? And don't most low-income people look for cheap food and drinks so they can survive, and doesn't that mean a LOT of fast-food, and doesn't fast-food usually come with about a half-litre of pop?

If it was taxed, then it might not be the cheapest option, and poor people would either starve to death, and no longer be a plague on the system, or they'd eat healthier, and no longer be a plague on the system...

I think a dollar/can tax is definitely in order.

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