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No election for now!

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OTTAWA - The NDP says it will support the Conservatives on a crucial budget motion Friday - and keep propping up the government long enough to pass EI legislation to help unemployed workers. The news appears to rule out a fall election - as long as EI legislation is still in play. It comes a day after the Bloc Quebecois announced that it will vote for the minority government's ways-and-means motion, averting an immediate election. The motion is considered a matter of confidence, meaning the government needs the support of one of the opposition parties to survive. New Democrat MP Thomas Mulcair says his party will support the Tories until they pass legislation that would extend EI benefits to long-tenured workers. That means a Liberal non-confidence motion expected the first week of October is likely to fail.

Sucks that harper had to give in to the EI demands of the NDP though. Longer EI means less incentive to look for a job. Ive seen this first hand with someone i know.

But its better than wasting money on an unneeded election.

Re: No election for now!

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Sucks that harper had to give in to the EI demands of the NDP though. Longer EI means less incentive to look for a job. Ive seen this first hand with someone i know. But its better than wasting money on an unneeded election.

I definitely agree with you 100%
Although the job market isn't in the greatest shape, there ARE jobs out there. People who abuse the EI system make me sick.
Even though I don't vote Conservative, wasting money on an unneeded election doesn't seem like the brightest idea, especially in the current state of the economy.

Re: No election for now!

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Sucks that harper had to give in to the EI demands of the NDP though. Longer EI means less incentive to look for a job. Ive seen this first hand with someone i know. But its better than wasting money on an unneeded election.

Getting in bed with the NDP.....not a good move.

Its not saving any money......an election within a year is most likely going to happen so they are just putting off the expense for a few more months. Personally, I think Harper stood a better chance of gaining a majority if an election happend now.

lol, how can you abuse EI? max bi-weekly payment is like $700

that won't even cover RENT

Either way i really dont want an election now. Enough already!

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Originally posted by mute79 lol, how can you abuse EI? max bi-weekly payment is like $700 that won't even cover RENT

it does if u are in subsidized housing or not having to pay rent. Trust me ive seen it. And when it comes to those who can only get part time minimum wage work the EI works out to about the same so why work?

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Originally posted by mute79 lol, how can you abuse EI? max bi-weekly payment is like $700 that won't even cover RENT

it's about $800 actually

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Originally posted by mute79 lol, how can you abuse EI? max bi-weekly payment is like $700 that won't even cover RENT

That's not neccessarily true.
people who live with roommates or parents pay much less than that if anything.
I have 2 other roommates in my house, and we each pay just over 400/mo after all the bills(gad hydro cable water) are paid. So it's more than enough for people to be able to abuse the system.

There is no doubt that welfare begets more welfare. Its a sad fact.

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Originally posted by lopi That's not neccessarily true. people who live with roommates or parents pay much less than that if anything. I have 2 other roommates in my house, and we each pay just over 400/mo after all the bills(gad hydro cable water) are paid. So it's more than enough for people to be able to abuse the system.

how is that "abusing the system"? if you're forced to live with 2 roomates, you're not really that well off, lol.. they're not living it up in the carrib, ffs

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Originally posted by mute79 how is that "abusing the system"? if you're forced to live with 2 roomates, you're not really that well off, lol.. they're not living it up in the carrib, ffs

Collecting free money in lieu of working and not looking for work because you are getting free money is abusing the system. Go out and earn that $400 for rent instead of making the rest of us pay for it.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 There is no doubt that welfare begets more welfare. Its a sad fact.

And then there are those like myself. I have just gone back to work, construction, after breaking an ankle 6 weeks ago (out of work accident comp does not apply). I have never used EI since I started in the work force. Having bought A condo just one month before I had very little savings left. If it were not for EI, I would have surely missed a payment at least. Yes there are those who abuse, but I would be surprised if it's even 10%. If you would question that number, you may as well back it up with statistics cause I've heard all the hearsay stories "i know this guy"etc.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 it does if u are in subsidized housing or not having to pay rent. Trust me ive seen it. And when it comes to those who can only get part time minimum wage work the EI works out to about the same so why work?

EI only pays 55% of your income to a MAX of nearly 800 every 2 weeks. A minimum wage job would pay less than 200/wk on 40 hours.

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Originally posted by miketg23 And then there are those like myself. I have just gone back to work, construction, after breaking an ankle 6 weeks ago (out of work accident comp does not apply). I have never used EI since I started in the work force. Having bought A condo just one month before I had very little savings left. If it were not for EI, I would have surely missed a payment at least. Yes there are those who abuse, but I would be surprised if it's even 10%. If you would question that number, you may as well back it up with statistics cause I've heard all the hearsay stories "i know this guy"etc.

Er, yeah, but this legislation is about extending the period of UI (I refuse to call it EI) anywhere from 5 to 20 weeks extra - that's on top of the rather generous time already given (usually at least a few months).

So if you went on UI for 6 weeks... fine. This is about people who are on it for 6 months. If it takes you that long to find work, then you're probably not looking very hard.

People tend to go look for a job when they have fire lit on their ass

Give people zero incentive to find work and guarantee their survival, why would anyone work?

Fuck. I'm lazy as hell sometimes and if I'm guaranteed minimum level of living standards, I'd bum off EI too

I'm not gonna disagree with anything previously said. People should not abuse the welfare system. But I love how one detail is discussed whilst leaving out the fact that for someone to get the "extended" benefits they have to have paid into EI for 10 years.

Anyways this thread is about the strike being adverted so lets all say it together... thank you 'socialists' and 'separatists' for doing the right thing.

Sorry to interrupt I'll let the neo-cons continue to do what they love to do.

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Originally posted by Time2Burn Anyways this thread is about the strike being adverted so lets all say it together... thank you 'socialists' and 'separatists' for doing the right thing.

Lol... strike?

We should be so lucky, to have the NDP go on strike.


Oh, and I'm aware of the requirements for extended UI benefits, but you should see some of the things the NDP actually wanted that Harper didn't concede to them - things like dropping the minimum work requirement to 360 hours and eliminating the 2-week waiting period. Can you imagine? Work for 9 weeks, quit, and get 2 months of EI, hah!

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Originally posted by DigiNut Er, yeah, but this legislation is about extending the period of UI (I refuse to call it EI) anywhere from 5 to 20 weeks extra - that's on top of the rather generous time already given (usually at least a few months). So if you went on UI for 6 weeks... fine. This is about people who are on it for 6 months. If it takes you that long to find work, then you're probably not looking very hard.

in this bill, arent they reducing the wait time period as well?


id rather see the wait period go, and leave the length as is....3-4 months should be enough for anyone that is competent to find a job.

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Originally posted by DigiNut Lol... strike? Work for 9 weeks, quit, and get 2 months of EI, hah!

I thought EI didnt apply when you quit or get fired? only when laid off or position is being killed

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Originally posted by DigiNut Lol... strike? We should be so lucky, to have the NDP go on strike. Oh, and I'm aware of the requirements for extended UI benefits, but you should see some of the things the NDP actually wanted that Harper didn't concede to them - things like dropping the minimum work requirement to 360 hours and eliminating the 2-week waiting period. Can you imagine? Work for 9 weeks, quit, and get 2 months of EI, hah!

Ooops. Perhaps in my head I wish the entire government would go on strike. Maybe then this country would have some order.

Oh, and don't worry Aaron I know you're well informed. But I do think its important for others to get more of the story as opposed to the just "the most convenient information to support my argument". What the NDP 'wanted' is irrelevant to a discussion of what actually is being proposed.

Its not like getting UI (yes I prefer to call it that too) is as easy as picking up the phone and asking for it. There is plenty of red tape and hoops to jump through to weed out the cheaters. Really I suppose this new amendment proposed is to cater to those long tenured highly skilled tradesmen who may have been laid off due to the current economic state. I guess they should apply at McDonalds - however in my experience I tend to not hire applicants at my company who are 'over qualified'.

Is it so bad that people get money from the government through a program that all working Canadians pay into for this very purpose? Even if we calculate the maximum benefit over the maximum duration against the actual amount paid into over 10+ years of employment the difference really becomes negligible.

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Originally posted by devnull I thought EI didnt apply when you quit or get fired? only when laid off or position is being killed

Yeah, you know what I mean though, there are plenty enough ways to "quit" without actually "quitting".

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Originally posted by Time2Burn Is it so bad that people get money from the government through a program that all working Canadians pay into for this very purpose? Even if we calculate the maximum benefit over the maximum duration against the actual amount paid into over 10+ years of employment the difference really becomes negligible.

I'm fine with the way UI is now - it could use some revisions, like every government program, but there are far bigger fish to fry right now, which is why you don't see me or any other fiscal conservatives (sorry, "neo-cons" ) complaining too much about this. UI is not welfare, we pay into this service.

Elimination of the waiting period would be catastrophic, though. First of all, your employer owes you at least two weeks notice or pay, so you're "covered" anyway, and more importantly, the first few weeks after leaving a job are when you're most motivated to get back to work. The longer you sit on it, the harder it becomes, so people do not need disincentives during this period.

Don't tell me you've never left a project half-finished for a few weeks and ended up hating - and I mean absolutely dreading the thought of trying to pick it up again, knowing that you're not really in the mood, and that you've forgotten half of what you did, and it doesn't really seem that important anymore, and so on and so forth... we all do this to some extent, it's human nature.

If you can't survive independently for two weeks then you have a serious budget problem. Most moderate liberals believe in some amount of tough love, the "safety net" is just there in case of an emergency.

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Originally posted by Time2Burn Ooops. Perhaps in my head I wish the entire government would go on strike. Maybe then this country would have some order.

And here i thought with your right wing bashing that your were a left wing commie. All along you are really an extreme right anarchist LOL

Re: Re: No election for now!

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced Getting in bed with the NDP.....not a good move. ...

at least Harper is consistent...consistently a hypocrite!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...article1285249/

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Ottawa's deficit plan would hike EI premiums The Harper government's plan for whittling down Ottawa's deficit by 2015 includes collecting billions of dollars more in payroll taxes than it pays out in Employment Insurance benefits over a three-year period. This is stoking fears that overcollection of EI premiums, starting in Ottawa's 2012-13 fiscal year, could hinder employment growth by unduly burdening companies as they are trying to recover and grow. But the Tories defend the measure as necessary to ensure the EI program breaks even, particularly given a current freeze on premiums that's keeping them artificially low right now. For instance, the deficit or shortfall in the costs of the EI program and the premiums collected - as a result of the freeze - is expected to hit $13.2-billion by the 2011-12 fiscal year. The Official Opposition Liberals, currently gunning to defeat the Tory government, say it's hard to square EI levy hikes with the Tory pledge to avoid raising taxes as they eliminate the deficit. Using information released in Thursday's fiscal update, economist Dale Orr calculates that Ottawa will collect $12.9-billion more in EI premiums from employers and workers than it pays out in benefits or administrative costs between 2012-13 and 2014-15. The Harper government said it's merely trying to ensure that the EI program balances out over time. It wants to recoup shortfalls in EI collections that it expects will have built up over the next few years as a result of the recession � which has sent unemployment skyrocketing. �We committed to freezing EI premiums as part of the economic action plan to help Canadians weather the recession,� said Chisholm Pothier, spokesman for Finance Minister Jim Flaherty. �We are keeping that commitment and rates will remain frozen until 2011.� Jayson Myers, president of Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters, said he wants to avoid a repeat of efforts to balance the books more than a decade ago when the Liberal government over-collected EI premiums. �If they're looking at reducing the deficit by increasing the premiums, then you're going to run into exactly the same problem we saw during the mid-1990s � [and] it will slow down the hiring process,� Mr. Myers said. Liberal finance critic John McCallum said Ottawa should be cautious about trying to resolve a shortfall in EI premium collections too quickly. �I agree with the principle that it should be balanced over the cycle, but what's the cycle?� Mr. Orr said the Finance Minister should have highlighted this plan to over-collect premiums when he released the fiscal update on Thursday, a document that was designed to show the deficit shrinking to what the government assured Canadians will be �manageable� levels by 2015. �He pledged to return to balanced budgets without a tax increase. Isn't an increase in EI premiums a tax increase?� Ottawa's current break-even policy for EI may be hard to stomach for some. As internal government estimates have shown, Ottawa collected $51-billion more in EI premiums than it paid out in benefits over 12 years up to 2005-2006.

Re: No election for now!

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Sucks that harper had to give in to the EI demands of the NDP though.

He didn't really have to though...

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Originally posted by mute79 how is that "abusing the system"? if you're forced to live with 2 roomates, you're not really that well off, lol.. they're not living it up in the carrib, ffs

I resent that.
Not everyone lives with roommates because they can't afford it on their own. Did it ever occur to you that some people live with roommates for company, or to save some of the money that they WORK for?

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Collecting free money in lieu of working and not looking for work because you are getting free money is abusing the system. Go out and earn that $400 for rent instead of making the rest of us pay for it.

What he said.

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