TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Production Studio
-- Tricky mastering of an album....suggestions welcomed

Tricky mastering of an album....suggestions welcomed

I'm currently working on an album to release through my label that contains tracks from other labels such as Black Hole, Bonzai, etc. The tracks are already mastered obviously. Another obvious thing, not much is going to likely need to be done once I mix it, but I was wondering if anybody has any experience or suggestions with this?

Yes, I have friends online who have opinions. Yes, I run a label. Yes, I have my own opinions. No, I don't know everything. Sorry - I felt I had to write this after reading comments in other threads questioning my intelligence with regards to licensing and distributing music. I'm not perfect and I'm a big believer in getting as many opinions as possible and there are some smart people on here.

Personally, I assume just mix the damn thing and open it in oZone and do what I feel/hear is proper and go with it but I want to know what others think and how they would approach it. I'm going to be using around 20 tracks. (A two "disc" mix compilation)

Thats a good point, if you take a mastered track and run it though ozone or whatever are you not double, or maybe triple compressing something. Wouldnt it just turn to flat mush?

then again the clubs all have big compressor rigs etc and dj's play mastered tracks through them.

Good thread! be interested to hear the answer

don't neccesarily have to compress. don't forget about all of the multi-band options with ozone either. that's one of the main reasons i would lean towards using it. i want a tool that gives me the most autonomy over my mix as possible. i just am not quite sure if there are any "standards" or certain things you should "almost always" do when taking on a project like this. It's not that uncommon, but probably uncommon to most everybody who posts here but maybe not.

if your talking about multiband compressors i heard they were quite bad for the sound..

(heard it from the interview with that german minimal dj/mastering engineer.) his names robert babicz

he says it destroys tho sound.

(although im using one on the vocals for a track im making now)

Multiband comps are a tool designed to correct serious irregularities within the mix; they shouldn't even be considered for normal work most of the time, yet most bedroom producers quickly become awed as to how fast they can get something better sounding from their mix, when in reality they're usually just pumpin' the extreme low and high end and then write a topic here as to how top producers have such rich, full and clear sound (no pun intended )

Stephen, my food for thought is this. All mastered music nowadays is limited quite heavily to 0db. When you're in middle of a transition, the mid+high parts volumes add up to an approximate 4 - 6 dB volume increase, which will lead to clipping in each transition should you have your channel strips on zero. My advice is this, have your channel set so that peaks never get higher than -4, that way you'll never reach 0 dB on master, thus, no clipping. Afterwards, apply some gentle (gentle!) compression on the master and limit for a few dB, try to get as near to 0 as possible.
On the compressor, determine the good audible threshold and just play with the ratio in the 2:1 area, softest knee possible, around 15-20msec attack and shortest sustain/release times available. That way you won't be altering the sound too much, mostly really just gain controlling.
For the limiter, try +3 db first, then work from there. have fastest attack, and again, shortest sustain & release times. Do not dither, since finished masters are already dithered.

This way you'll get a slightly more punching mix, with some imagination it'll sound like it was recorded live, and and generally be more, well, lively

Personally I wouldn't use Ozone plugs for this kind of job, if you're bound to software, get Sonnox Oxford plugins, they're ideal for this kind of post-processing.

Let us know how it goes!

if your mastering an album and the source material is already mastered then your options are limited. i would reccommend you obtain premaster versions of all the tracks and mix/master the album as a whole putting each track on a seperate channel, applying comp/eq to each and then use the master channel with mild compression and a limiter with a high threshold level so you dont squash the heck out of your tunes.

there will be variations in the volumes of the mastered tracks that you have (unless your very lucky) and therefore putting any kind of dynamic control over the master channel is gonna work well on the quieter tracks and crush the loud tracks, not really ideal!

quote:

Originally posted by studiobob if your mastering an album and the source material is already mastered then your options are limited. i would reccommend you obtain premaster versions of all the tracks and mix/master the album as a whole putting each track on a seperate channel, applying comp/eq to each and then use the master channel with mild compression and a limiter with a high threshold level so you dont squash the heck out of your tunes.

That is ideal, but that is basically making him master all the material himself, which will not produce the same sound of the tracks as they are, and it will be noticeable.

quote:

there will be variations in the volumes of the mastered tracks that you have (unless your very lucky) and therefore putting any kind of dynamic control over the master channel is gonna work well on the quieter tracks and crush the loud tracks, not really ideal!

That's why we have gain controls on mixers, or any program if the mix will be made on computer

mmm gain pots. useless if one of your tracks on the album has been "mastered" to a +20DB and is one big nasty square wave from start to finish...cos you cant do anything with it.

if you want a sense of cohesion to the album then mastering them all yourself is the way forward.

quote:

Originally posted by studiobob mmm gain pots. useless if one of your tracks on the album has been "mastered" to a +20DB and is one big nasty square wave from start to finish...cos you cant do anything with it. if you want a sense of cohesion to the album then mastering them all yourself is the way forward.

impossible

quote:

Originally posted by Tarpex Multiband comps are a tool designed to correct serious irregularities within the mix; they shouldn't even be considered for normal work most of the time, yet most bedroom producers quickly become awed as to how fast they can get something better sounding from their mix, when in reality they're usually just pumpin' the extreme low and high end and then write a topic here as to how top producers have such rich, full and clear sound (no pun intended ) Stephen, my food for thought is this. All mastered music nowadays is limited quite heavily to 0db. When you're in middle of a transition, the mid+high parts volumes add up to an approximate 4 - 6 dB volume increase, which will lead to clipping in each transition should you have your channel strips on zero. My advice is this, have your channel set so that peaks never get higher than -4, that way you'll never reach 0 dB on master, thus, no clipping. Afterwards, apply some gentle (gentle!) compression on the master and limit for a few dB, try to get as near to 0 as possible. On the compressor, determine the good audible threshold and just play with the ratio in the 2:1 area, softest knee possible, around 15-20msec attack and shortest sustain/release times available. That way you won't be altering the sound too much, mostly really just gain controlling. For the limiter, try +3 db first, then work from there. have fastest attack, and again, shortest sustain & release times. Do not dither, since finished masters are already dithered. This way you'll get a slightly more punching mix, with some imagination it'll sound like it was recorded live, and and generally be more, well, lively Personally I wouldn't use Ozone plugs for this kind of job, if you're bound to software, get Sonnox Oxford plugins, they're ideal for this kind of post-processing. Let us know how it goes!

I really like this idea and approach. Best one I've heard yet. I did plan to record soft but not this soft. Will prob do this almost exactly as you've described. Will let you know how it goes. Give me a few weeks.

quote:

Originally posted by studiobob mmm gain pots. useless if one of your tracks on the album has been "mastered" to a +20DB and is one big nasty square wave from start to finish...cos you cant do anything with it. if you want a sense of cohesion to the album then mastering them all yourself is the way forward.

Oh god, he said he's getting his tunes from top labels, which kinda have their music properly mastered (and even those that ain't top usually care about quality of their releases), don't complicate stuff too much mate. There's a reason mastering gear costs 20k+ in total, and no software plugs can achieve the same, now you're telling the guy to scrap the masters already done and remaster on software? Has to be one of the silliest ideas I ever heard.

Stephen, you can contact me anytime for any mastering / question related stuff, I've got incoming releases on Black Hole & Armada at the end of the year, and I know a thing or two about music

Peace.

quote:

Originally posted by studiobob if your mastering an album and the source material is already mastered then your options are limited. i would reccommend you obtain premaster versions of all the tracks and mix/master the album as a whole putting each track on a seperate channel, applying comp/eq to each and then use the master channel with mild compression and a limiter with a high threshold level so you dont squash the heck out of your tunes. there will be variations in the volumes of the mastered tracks that you have (unless your very lucky) and therefore putting any kind of dynamic control over the master channel is gonna work well on the quieter tracks and crush the loud tracks, not really ideal!

Wrong

quote:

Originally posted by studiobob mmm gain pots. useless if one of your tracks on the album has been "mastered" to a +20DB and is one big nasty square wave from start to finish...cos you cant do anything with it. if you want a sense of cohesion to the album then mastering them all yourself is the way forward.

And wrong again. Aren't you a mastering engineer? I hope I'm just recalling incorrectly because you've made some very stupid statements noted above.

Heres a good thread on this subject i read recently over on a&b forum..

Maybe youve seen it, maybe you havent.

Always wandered how the TATW show is a powerful volume...im glad he said never use it as a reference..ive spent many times trying to match the volume and just crushing the whole dynamics of my tracks just to match it....and then just thinking im crap. hehe

Well here it is.

http://www.anjunabeats.com/forum/in...showtopic=31854

Steven the best advice I can give you is to get your gains as close as possible in your mix. Mastering a mixed project can only be done properly if there are no huge disparities between your tracks. I mix to -5db and then pull everything up in the mastering session.

The mastering process when dealing with mixes is based on making everything similar. So stereo width, depth, and slight compression (I use PSP Vintage Warmer because I like the color it gives). I also use the waves L3 MM Plug in as the last plug in my chain (highly recommend for everyone to pick this up).

quote:

Originally posted by Tarpex Stephen, you can contact me anytime for any mastering / question related stuff, I've got incoming releases on Black Hole & Armada at the end of the year, and I know a thing or two about music Peace.

Tarpex, i may have to pick your brains one day on this subject ?!

quote:

Originally posted by pactdonkey Heres a good thread on this subject i read recently over on a&b forum.. Maybe youve seen it, maybe you havent. Always wandered how the TATW show is a powerful volume...im glad he said never use it as a reference..ive spent many times trying to match the volume and just crushing the whole dynamics of my tracks just to match it....and then just thinking im crap. hehe Well here it is. http://www.anjunabeats.com/forum/in...showtopic=31854

Yup; the waves C series and L series are used by most of the big radio shows; they are fucking outstanding products!

Anytime pactdonkey, my PM box is always open

Steven if you're interested I'll do this for free for you. You've always made yourself available to me whenever I've had any questions or wanted some feedback.

I'd be more than welcome to help your label displace some of the muppets currently monopolizing the industry.

You can check any of my mixes in the link in my sig if you'd like to see what my techniques can accomplish.

quote:

Originally posted by Tarpex Multiband comps are a tool designed to correct serious irregularities within the mix; they shouldn't even be considered for normal work most of the time)

have to disagree with you there. The problem is that people think these tools are to fix big problems and that is why you get people using them when they should just automate things instead.

quote:

Originally posted by Tarpex Oh god, he said he's getting his tunes from top labels, which kinda have their music properly mastered (and even those that ain't top usually care about quality of their releases), don't complicate stuff too much mate. There's a reason mastering gear costs 20k+ in total, and no software plugs can achieve the same, now you're telling the guy to scrap the masters already done and remaster on software? Has to be one of the silliest ideas I ever heard. Stephen, you can contact me anytime for any mastering / question related stuff, I've got incoming releases on Black Hole & Armada at the end of the year, and I know a thing or two about music Peace.

well he didnt actually say that. i'm giving general advice, i have no idea whether the source material is top notch or crap. and i dont know much about the labels he's mentioned. we dont know whether the masters were done in a pro mastering studio or in some guys bedroom. maybe i missed something...

quote:

Originally posted by mfitterer1 Wrong And wrong again. Aren't you a mastering engineer? I hope I'm just recalling incorrectly because you've made some very stupid statements noted above.

um yeah i am, whats wrong with with what i've said?

That's what I was wondering. I think there wasn't anything wrong with what you said (and from an engineers standpoint definitely the way to go for the best result), although it's a lot of work doing it the way you described. Getting pre-masters is even more work. It's just unpractical.

I'd just set the volume on all tracks so that they sound equally loud and then some gentle compression on the master output. Most likely that's the easiest way to go.

quote:

Originally posted by studiobob um yeah i am, whats wrong with with what i've said?

"if your mastering an album and the source material is already mastered then your options are limited."

This is untrue. Just because something is mastered already doesn't mean it can't be adjusted or benefit from subtle changes or sweetening of the sound.

"therefore putting any kind of dynamic control over the master channel is gonna work well on the quieter tracks and crush the loud tracks, not really ideal! "

The thing is all tracks should be the same, despite what their sources are. So say you have an track with an rms of 10 and a track with an rms of 8 (fairly squished); once recorded if done efficiently they'll be near the same as an end product. I think you're overestimating how much post processing is done when mastering an entire mix OR what type of post processing is done on an entire mix.

"useless if one of your tracks on the album has been "mastered" to a +20DB and is one big nasty square wave from start to finish...cos you cant do anything with it." This is also untrue. The technique I use for these tracks is mixing them in about 1-2 db lower than the rest of the mix. This allows my post processing to actually reestablish some dynamics (or give the feelings of that) and give it some much needed room that was taken away in the original mastering process.

Mastering a mix is MUCH different than mastering a single track.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.