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Layer several basses or go for a less is more approach?

Thinking about a lot of responses on trance forums, one of the most common pieces of advice is to use several basses on one track.

For example;

A sub

A low bass (but not sub)often made of more than 1 osc

A rolling mid bass - typicaly made of several osc's

mid bass that mirrors the notes of the low and sub bass - to bring them out

A snycy screaming noord type sound to accompany the bass closely (I don't mean a lead - I mean a bass co - partner that is typically heard in an intro)

IS THIS OVERKILL I'M THINKING?


Lately I'm wondering whether this is the best approach for pro results, or whether to chose one good bass sound and let it do most of the work, with perhaps a rolling bass to.

When I listen close to tracks by above&beyond, thier basses seem very simple actually, yet on forum post after post you see this 'layer it-up' advice.

Any thoughts?

Layer!
Afterall , do you believe that Andy Blueman used only one synth to construct his mid basses?
I dont know about low basses .. I always thought that was kinda unessential(Look at Fast Distance - Big Ben , It only had a rolling mid bass , and a deep sub bass)

The trick in doing these types of basslines is getting sounds that fit together!!!

Yes i do layer my basslines, i always have a sub bass going on just to give the sound deph. but the sub bass does not have to be a sine wave. i choose whatever fits the track..

hey guys this isnt exactly on the topic, but im pretty new in terms of production and getting those 'trancey' sounds, but on what you guys are talking about, how do you go about getting trance sounding basslines happening? e.g a rolling bassline, and do you use midi notes/step sequences/arps etc? any help would be fantastic

Whatever sounds good. If the synth is good, it can sound great on its own. But if you're using a bunch of crap, you may have to layer for it to sound half decent. It'll probably still sound like crap, though.

quote:

Originally posted by alanzo Whatever sounds good. If the synth is good, it can sound great on its own. But if you're using a bunch of crap, you may have to layer for it to sound half decent. It'll probably still sound like crap, though.

Yeah. +1 to that.

quote:

Originally posted by alanzo Whatever sounds good. If the synth is good, it can sound great on its own. But if you're using a bunch of crap, you may have to layer for it to sound half decent. It'll probably still sound like crap, though.

Yes, and keep in mind... using 2 oscilliators or more on a single patch is also a sort of layering.

Let me add a question on this thread.

what is the "right" method to do the bass layering?

-example 1

subbass-->eq+compression and/or the process you want
+
mid-bass-->eq+compression and/or the process you want
+
high-bass-->eq+compression and/or the process you want

all this routed to a group bus where it's processed again, with eq+ and/or any other process and sidechain (if you use it)

-example 2

same as above but without routing to a subgroup, processing all the basses in their respectives channels.

I tried both and "example 2" works better for me.

I know there is no rule to do this but wanna know what is the method used mostly.

thanks in advance

quote:

Originally posted by alanzo Whatever sounds good. If the synth is good, it can sound great on its own. But if you're using a bunch of crap, you may have to layer for it to sound half decent. It'll probably still sound like crap, though.

+1. I've made great tracks with a 4 layer bass line, and I've made great tracks with a single layer bassline.

Assuming you guys are talking about layering by laying 2 or more plugins, I would say you should only layer bass when needed. If you can achieve the effect you want with just one bass then do so.

But like Subtle, using 2 or more osc is sorta like layering.

Assuming you guys are talking about epic/uplifting trance then it seems to have become a standard to have at least 2 layers, but it isnt always needed.

The more you can simplify the amount of processing the better IMO.

Layer is good, be it to create one bass sound or more than one bass sound playing different patterns to create the bassline itself.

Depends on what you are aiming for.

It's not unusual for me to use 6 bass patches for one song, generally 2 saw basses, a sub bass and 3 rolling mid-basses.

Though at the same time I've made trance tracks with nothing but a sub bass, as it's already been said, it depends on what you're looking for.

i produce house and techno so i rarely do more than one or maybe two basslines at a time- the main one and then a more melodic one that's more for variety and flavor than for thump

sometimes i don't even put in a bassline depending on how much low percussion i have- it tends to be overkill or it muddies up the mix.

quote:

Originally posted by Nightshift Assuming you guys are talking about layering by laying 2 or more plugins, I would say you should only layer bass when needed. If you can achieve the effect you want with just one bass then do so. But like Subtle, using 2 or more osc is sorta like layering. Assuming you guys are talking about epic/uplifting trance then it seems to have become a standard to have at least 2 layers, but it isnt always needed. The more you can simplify the amount of processing the better IMO.

+! the more basses you have in there, the muddier your track will get

I can only reiterate what many people have already said - what sound are you going for? Some trance songs only have a single bass. Others have many layers going on.

It's your decision what you want to do for the song you're working on. Whether 3 basses, 6 basses or 20 basses is overkill is up to you. Whether they get muddy or not is up to you.

@paulmac - quite often those "trancey" midbass lines have some or all of the following - a resonant bandpass filter slowly sweeping up and down a frequency range, some delays, maybe some reverb, generally a highpass filter to get rid of low frequencies, maybe some chorus/flanger/phaser...there are many ways to treat these sounds. There are also many rhythmic patterns you can try out. Either work out a pattern over a bar or two in your step sequencer (then copy this over the whole progression and move the notes up and down when the main bass moves up and down), or use an arpeggiator to chop up long sustained notes - with this method you can quickly cycle through a whole bunch of rhythmic patterns and see if any fall into place nicely.

@beamrider - you can group basses in any way that makes sense to you. Perhaps you can group the kick and sub bass to a group, and put your higher basses in with a synth group. Maybe you route your kick straight through to the master channel and group all your basses together. It's totally what fits best for your workflow/ mindset.

this thread got me thinking earlier when i opened up reason. I usually throw in a lot of shit in the low end. 1 good sub bass and a layer should do nice and sounds much cleaner than many crammed in.

I'm a fan of the less is more approach, even in trance where so many people go layer crazy trying to develop thick and lush sounds.

The problem sometimes can also be your resources. Above & Beyond does use a very simple *SOUNDING* approach, but I guarantee what they're doing isn't simple.

Most of their mid basses sound like simple saw waves, but I'm yet to find one osc from any softsynth that sounds like the saws they're using. The character is just completely different, but also very clean sounding, which makes me think they're not using softsynths at all.

Nor have I ever heard a saw tooth bassline preset that even comes close to resembling their saws. Gotta be a virus or andromeda their using. So Alanzo is on point, your resources are gonna impact a lot of how you work. I use z3ta and sylenth for most my bass and always find them missing essential saw tooth character I hear in other trance songs.
And what I mean by that is if you don't have the money to afford a nice piece of hardware, you're most likely going to lose yourself in a maze of layering with softsynths, continually tweaking, layering, and delivering less then satisfactory sounds.

out of the box you get that character but, I guess if youre clever/good enough you can craft it with softsynth

LOL REVIVAL OF THE SOFTSYNTH CANNOT DO MID BASS THREAD?

Robby the reason why you cannot "find" the sounds they are using is because they shape their sounds and give them their own character.

Most of them probably are simple saw waves but its how they effect and manipulate them that gives them their character. It is not for the sole purpose they use hardware. It's knowing wtf you are doing, which only comes through experience.

Have you ever heard their remix of Tonight by Dirty Vegas? That was ALL software and that lead was done with Sylenth, I believe the bass was too but I can't remember. I saw the video of how they made it (in 24 hours) a while back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ic11nd_TTM

p.s. here's the conference

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1Bp...feature=related

At 8:00 he starts talking about it.

That song is fvckn incredible. I cant believe how talented they are thats amazing.

And that guy on the left in the second video needs to be shot. Its such a good video but he makes it so hard to enjoy.

in all my "better tracks" i have crafted the basslines from scratch. pretty good results.

thanks derail, appreciate it. but when i asked how to get those sounds what i was really after was if anyone could tell me if there are any tried and tested midi patterns for rolling basslines to program midi into your piano roll. like for example to program in a simple offbeat bassline you just punch in midi notes between the kick. when i hear the term rolling bassline i think of trance sounding like giuseppe ottiviani, and tech trance simon patterson style, is that 'rolling' ? any help would be great

rolling is uaully the term used for a bassline that sounds like its rolling in between the kick

usually its short bass notes that are shuffled.

common patterns are:

XbbbXbbbXbbbXbbb

XbBbXbBbXbBbXbBb

XbBbXBbBXbBbXBbB

XBbBXbBbXBbBXbBb

X-bbX-bbX-bbX-bb

X = Kick
b = bass
B = bass +1 octave

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