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Random Breathalizer Tests? Another step towards a Canadian Police State!

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The federal justice minister is considering a new law that would allow police to conduct random breathalyzer tests on drivers, regardless of whether they suspect motorists have been drinking. Justice Minister Rob Nicholson raised the prospect recently at a meeting of Mothers Against Drunk Driving, according to MADD chief executive Andrew Murie. If random testing were to be adopted, it would be a major change to Canada's 40-year-old breathalyzer legislation, which stipulates that police may only administer a test if they suspect a driver has been drinking. In June, a House of Commons parliamentary committee recommended changing the legislation to allow for random testing, arguing it is an effective deterrent. The change would also bring Canada in line with a number of other countries in Europe and countries like Australia, which have adopted similar measures. Murie said its biggest selling point is that it improves road safety, with drunk driving fatalities dropping 36 per cent in Australia after legislation was introduced, and 23 per cent in Ireland when it made the change. Tests could infringe on civil liberties "In the European Union, they demand that their countries, as part of membership for road safety, have sophisticated random breath testing because of the difference it's made in lives saved," he told CBC News. Murie said the change would allow police at roadblocks to conduct about three times as many breathalyzer tests because they would not need to spend time determining whether there is "reasonable" suspicion a driver has been drinking. The issue for civil libertarians, however, is that changing the law to allow random testing would be a violation of a person's right to protection against unreasonable search and seizure. "It has no real place in a democratic society," said Richard Rosenberg of the British Columbia Civil Liberties Association. "Giving police power to act on a whim is not something we want in an open democratic society." Liberal MP Ujjal Dosanjh, the former attorney general of British Columbia and a member of the House justice committee, said the question of whether any legislation would be allowable under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms would come down to implementation. Constraints on police power needed: MP "It remains to be seen what the actual legislation is when the minister brings it forward because we want to make sure that it's appropriately constrained and it's not too much of an infringement on civil liberties," Dosanjh told CBC News. Dosanjh said the charter does allow for constraints on rights when they are deemed reasonable, but said he would need to see how those constraints are implemented before judging any future legislation. "For instance... I wouldn�t want the east side of Vancouver monitored more than the west side of Vancouver because there is a clear economic division in the city," he said. "We want to make sure that areas are not unnecessarily excessively focused on and that's why I think that we need to make sure that the legislation is properly drafted with appropriate constraints and guidelines for the police," he said. But Dosanjh pointed out that driving is not a right itself, but rather a privilege subject to licences given by government authorities. Nicholson could not be reached for comment.

I really hope the conservatives ignore this recommendation. I have to say that one thing this article fails to mention about australia and europe is that both places have way more laxer drinking laws to begin with. You can drink on the street, no last call etc. I would gladly accept stricter drunk driving laws and even a zero tolerance instead of .08 in exchange for the types of civil liberties given to drinkers in those parts of the world.

And this is one more reason to laugh in the face of MADD when the come trolling annually for donations.

If everyone drives drunk, surely they can't put us all in jail!

HAH HAH who will have the last laugh now?

Re: Random Breathalizer Tests? Another step towards a Canadian Police State!

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Originally posted by Jayx1 I really hope the conservatives ignore this recommendation. I have to say that one thing this article fails to mention about australia and europe is that both places have way more laxer drinking laws to begin with. You can drink on the street, no last call etc. I would gladly accept stricter drunk driving laws and even a zero tolerance instead of .08 in exchange for the types of civil liberties given to drinkers in those parts of the world. And this is one more reason to laugh in the face of MADD when the come trolling annually for donations.

As far as I'm aware, you can't drink in the streets over here in Australia

You can drink in parks etc, but only if you're having food with it.

Re: Re: Random Breathalizer Tests? Another step towards a Canadian Police State!

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Originally posted by Sushipunk As far as I'm aware, you can't drink in the streets over here in Australia You can drink in parks etc, but only if you're having food with it.

more than you can do here!! The streets part was more aimed at Europe but I do know australia has much looser drink laws than we do. As does everyone outside of saudi arabia

Re: Re: Re: Random Breathalizer Tests? Another step towards a Canadian Police State!

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Originally posted by Jayx1 more than you can do here!! The streets part was more aimed at Europe but I do know australia has much looser drink laws than we do. As does everyone outside of saudi arabia

Seriously? So if you go and have a picnic in the park or something, you can't take a cooler with beer, or some wine?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Random Breathalizer Tests? Another step towards a Canadian Police State!

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Originally posted by Sushipunk Seriously? So if you go and have a picnic in the park or something, you can't take a cooler with beer, or some wine?

in canada no

You need a permit to do so.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Random Breathalizer Tests? Another step towards a Canadian Police State!

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Originally posted by Sushipunk Seriously? So if you go and have a picnic in the park or something, you can't take a cooler with beer, or some wine?

Aww you're so romantic. Got a gf? lol j/k

Re: Re: Re: Re: Random Breathalizer Tests? Another step towards a Canadian Police Sta

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Originally posted by Sushipunk Seriously? So if you go and have a picnic in the park or something, you can't take a cooler with beer, or some wine?

technically, it's against the law..open alcohol in public...but it does happen

during the summer here you can walk along our beaches and see coolers everywhere...the cops have better things to do

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Random Breathalizer Tests? Another step towards a Canadian Police

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Originally posted by geroin in canada no

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Originally posted by Dior Homme You need a permit to do so.

That's lame! Are permits easy to get though?

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Originally posted by *~LiSa-LoO~* Aww you're so romantic. Got a gf? lol j/k

Haha, I do

Permits are not easy to get. You need to be having a special event and then have everything roped off and check ID.

But yeah drinking outside a licensed area is a fine and confiscation of liquor.

No drinks at beaches, parks etc.

Also we have last call at 2 and a ban on alcohol sales from 2 am to 11 am so champagne breakfasts are also illegal

And they do enforce it.. My uncle got done at the beach for having an open beer even though it was in a cooler. Apparently the cops were watching with binoculars?!?!?

they enforce it but not hard core

walk along woodbine beach on a weekend and coolers are everywhere

hanlans point might as well have a permit...booze everywhere and you can get high breathing in the air

people behave, no complaints, no big brother

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Permits are not easy to get. You need to be having a special event and then have everything roped off and check ID. But yeah drinking outside a licensed area is a fine and confiscation of liquor. No drinks at beaches, parks etc. Also we have last call at 2 and a ban on alcohol sales from 2 am to 11 am so champagne breakfasts are also illegal And they do enforce it.. My uncle got done at the beach for having an open beer even though it was in a cooler. Apparently the cops were watching with binoculars?!?!?

Jesus, that's a bit harsh. Lol at binoculars.

I think last call here depends of where the actual venue is. In Brisbane here, we have an 'entertainment precinct' in the Valley, and all the clubs/bars go right through until closing time at 5am. A lot of the cafe/bar type places open an hour later for breakfast (no alcohol until 9am though, I think).

Bars outside that precinct aren't normally open that late though. A couple near me close at about 2am, from memory.

And as far as driving goes, the legal limit is 0.05

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Originally posted by Sushipunk Jesus, that's a bit harsh. Lol at binoculars. I think last call here depends of where the actual venue is. In Brisbane here, we have an 'entertainment precinct' in the Valley, and all the clubs/bars go right through until closing time at 5am. A lot of the cafe/bar type places open an hour later for breakfast (no alcohol until 9am though, I think). Bars outside that precinct aren't normally open that late though. A couple near me close at about 2am, from memory. And as far as driving goes, the legal limit is 0.05

We dont have a special area for licensing. In fact the area that was zoned for clubs is now being zoned for condos... You dont even want to know the lengths they have gone to to try and get rid of the clubs.

Sad...

The only time we get close to an entertainment precinct is when TIFF is in town and the suits want to party. Otherwise its "war on clubland"

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Originally posted by torontobarfly they enforce it but not hard core walk along woodbine beach on a weekend and coolers are everywhere hanlans point might as well have a permit...booze everywhere and you can get high breathing in the air people behave, no complaints, no big brother

Tell that to my uncle, his lost 6 pack and his fine! Cant remember how much... something along the lines of a few hundred bucks. I think it was ashbridges bay.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 We dont have a special area for licensing. In fact the area that was zoned for clubs is now being zoned for condos... You dont even want to know the lengths they have gone to to try and get rid of the clubs. Sad... The only time we get close to an entertainment precinct is when TIFF is in town and the suits want to party. Otherwise its "war on clubland"

It used to be the same here, before the precinct came to be a few years ago. All the apartment tenants were complaining that there was too much noise coming from the clubs, and too many people wandering around the area. In fact, it's probably still like that in many areas around Brisbane for clubs/bars that aren't lucky enough to be in the Valley area.

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Originally posted by Sushipunk It used to be the same here, before the precinct came to be a few years ago. All the apartment tenants were complaining that there was too much noise coming from the clubs, and too many people wandering around the area. In fact, it's probably still like that in many areas around Brisbane for clubs/bars that aren't lucky enough to be in the Valley area.

WTF are you doing outside of the c0r?

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Originally posted by Cro_Addict WTF are you doing outside of the c0r?

Slow, boring day.

Sorry, I'll go

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Originally posted by Sushipunk Slow, boring day. Sorry, I'll go

hahaha...

No... please stay

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Originally posted by Cro_Addict hahaha... No... please stay

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Tell that to my uncle, his lost 6 pack and his fine! Cant remember how much... something along the lines of a few hundred bucks. I think it was ashbridges bay.

oh i don't deny your uncle got nailed...as i said they do enforce it but not strongly, or at least not strongly enough to deter others from taking their drinks to the beach

i saw a group of guys get nailed on the beach at ashbridges because they had their case of beer sitting right out in the open and they made no attempt to hide it...most people go from cooler to plastic cup without it being so obvious

if you go to carabana or pride you'll see tons of people walking the streets with beverages in their hands and more often than not the cops will turn a blind eye...sometimes someone will get nailed, some get warned, but most are ignored

Re: Random Breathalizer Tests? Another step towards a Canadian Police State!

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Originally posted by Jayx1 I really hope the conservatives ignore this recommendation...

I certainly agree...but can't help note that this is *awfully* soft language, coming from TA's champion of personal freedoms.

had this been a provincial or municipal matter under McGuinty or Miller (or at the federal one under a Liberal gov't, I suspect), your words would be a bit more...animated.

admit it.

IMHO this is a questionable initiative, at best, for anyone who is a staunch defender of personal liberty. that end of it being an "effective deterrent" does not justify the means.

it's one thing to have RIDE where cars are randomly stopped, drivers questioned, etc...but to compel someone to provide a breath sample is taking it quite a step further. doesn't the refusal to provide a sample carry the same penalty as a DUI conviction, btw? that ought to weigh in on the debate...

Re: Re: Random Breathalizer Tests? Another step towards a Canadian Police State!

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Originally posted by MarkT I certainly agree...but can't help note that this is *awfully* soft language, coming from TA's champion of personal freedoms. had this been a provincial or municipal matter under McGuinty or Miller (or at the federal one under a Liberal gov't, I suspect), your words would be a bit more...animated. admit it. IMHO this is a questionable initiative, at best, for anyone who is a staunch defender of personal liberty. that end of it being an "effective deterrent" does not justify the means. it's one thing to have RIDE where cars are randomly stopped, drivers questioned, etc...but to compel someone to provide a breath sample is taking it quite a step further. doesn't the refusal to provide a sample carry the same penalty as a DUI conviction, btw? that ought to weigh in on the debate...

So far its a bi partisan judicial committee. Trust me if a tory introduces this as legislation ill be just as harsh.

This idea is complete BS. Whats next? Random blood tests? Random car searches?

Re: Re: Re: Random Breathalizer Tests? Another step towards a Canadian Police State!

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Originally posted by Jayx1 This idea is complete BS. Whats next? Random blood tests? Random car searches?

We have random drug-driving tests over here now, almost the same as an RBT. They use a mouth swab, and run it through a machine thing, which tests for weed, speed, coke, E, etc.

How do you feel about that?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Random Breathalizer Tests? Another step towards a Canadian Police State!

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Originally posted by Sushipunk We have random drug-driving tests over here now, almost the same as an RBT. They use a mouth swab, and run it through a machine thing, which tests for weed, speed, coke, E, etc. How do you feel about that?

shhhhhh...the government might be watching us....don't give them ideas

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