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-- This is the good old fashioned Liberal Switcharoo....

This is the good old fashioned Liberal Switcharoo....

being done by THE CONSERVATIVES!

I have to say that this is complete BS. Raising EI and CPP is one of the ways the Liberals "balanced" the budget back in the 90s. Sorry guys, but this IS a tax hike. A tax is something imposed by the government that MUST be paid. I dont care what fancy name you give it, its a tax.

And its even worse for self employed people like me who have to pay both ends of this tax. I am writing a letter to MP Lois Brown as we speak.

Ridiculous.

quote:

OTTAWA - Canadian workers could see their employment insurance premiums rise by $632 over four years while employers may face even bigger hikes if the government is to meet its economic update targets, according to economic forecaster Dale Orr Economic Insight. The analysis, released Tuesday, estimates that Finance Minister Jim Flaherty's revenue projections on the EI account builds in a sizable employment tax hike for both workers and employers of about $15.5 billion by the 2014-15 timetable laid out in last month's update. When it issued the update, Ottawa said it could return to balancing the budget after the 2014-15 fiscal year without raising taxes, but did acknowledged it will likely entail increases in employment insurance premiums to balance the account over time. The new analysis puts a firm figure on just what it will take to do so. Economist Dale Orr says premiums must rise from the current $1.73 per $100 of earnings - which will be frozen for another year-to $2.33 over the next five years. That will result in an accumulated extra payment of $632 for every worker earning more than the bottom threshold of $42,300. As well, employers will need to fork over about $884 per worker during the period. "The government may not call it a tax, but if it quacks like a duck, it's a duck," said Orr in an interview. The economist added that employment taxes are among the worst a government can levy because it discourages employers from hiring by making employees more expensive. Orr, who usually does not make recommendations in his report cards on government fiscal policies, made an exception in this case, saying Ottawa would do better to increase the GST by one point for two years to make up the difference. He said if Ottawa were to do neither - raise premiums or the GST - it would set the date for balancing the budget back by about two years, to 2017-18.

so first they announce a great plan to extend ei benefits:
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/...onal/fedelxn_ei

then they quietly raise the premiums, stupid fucks

You are going to have to start your own party Jayx....does not look like there are any conservatives left in Ottawa....or is this another of your excuses for a minority governemnt to hang on to power?

Re: This is the good old fashioned Liberal Switcharoo....

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Raising EI and CPP is one of the ways the Liberals "balanced" the budget back in the 90s. Sorry guys, but this IS a tax hike.

Actually, it's worse than any old tax hike because it's a tax on labour. At least with income tax there's a chance that the money would otherwise be spent frivolously; raising EI/CPP guarantees that 100% of the funds are being diverted from truly productive economic activity and makes the Canadian labour market less competitive with American outsourcing or foreign off-shoring.

Tax increases and deficits. Just like the last federal conservative governments. No surprises here... well maybe that jay actually started this thread.

a nice follow-up to the following link I posted in your 'no election for now' thread a few weeks ago, Jay.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...article1285249/

no one cared at the time though

lol

quote:

Originally posted by miketg23 Tax increases and deficits. Just like the last federal conservative governments. No surprises here... well maybe that jay actually started this thread.

As much as I did not like Mulroney, I have to say that the reason why they were in such a mess back then was due to the hangover of over a decade of trudeau. We were stuck with hardcore social programs that had no means of being paid for. Chretien and Martin "balanced" the budget on the backs of other governments. Also they had the benefit of governing during one of the longest stretches of growth in the history of our country. Both Mulroney and Harper have had to govern during recessions.

As for Harper, unfortunately the EI benefits being blackmailed out of them by the NDP have to come from somewhere. Although it must be noted that EI has shown a surplus and that both the liberals and conservatives have been putting that surplus into general revenue. I dont think EI hikes are the way to go and i dont like the idea of it being advertised as not a tax hike when it is.

I want to see what would happen under a majority conservative government when they can govern as they see fit. Will they still be quasi-liberals with their spending? Or shift back to being fiscally conservative? If they suck then we kick them out. For now all i see is a minority conservative government doing what it has to to avoid two elections per year.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 I want to see what would happen under a majority conservative government when they can govern as they see fit. Will they still be quasi-liberals with their spending? Or shift back to being fiscally conservative? If they suck then we kick them out. For now all i see is a minority conservative government doing what it has to to avoid two elections per year.

We need one more minority Conservative Government so Harper can get the boot....after that I wouldn't mind seeing a majority government...be it conservative, liberal, communist, or whatever....just not NDP

I understand why the Liberals didn't want Harper elected.

It's because his "hidden agenda" is THEIR agenda.

I don't see why this is a surprise. All conservative governemnts from the past few decades have spent like drunken sailors and it always takes the liberals to fix their screwups.

Raising Taxes or taxes in itself is perfectly fine, its needed and required. It's the cons approach to cutting taxes yet increasing spending that makes no sense. Cutting the stupid GST by 2% and some token minimal cuts to income taxes is creating a huge problem for us. The cons are bad manager of finance when economy is good, and atrocious when economy is bad.

Liberals have always been the remedy to fix the fiscal mismanagement of the cons. There's nothing conservative in spending by the cons, they're only conservative in shoving right wing religious views.

quote:

Originally posted by gilboman I don't see why this is a surprise. All conservative governemnts from the past few decades have spent like drunken sailors and it always takes the liberals to fix their screwups. Raising Taxes or taxes in itself is perfectly fine, its needed and required. It's the cons approach to cutting taxes yet increasing spending that makes no sense. Cutting the stupid GST by 2% and some token minimal cuts to income taxes is creating a huge problem for us. The cons are bad manager of finance when economy is good, and atrocious when economy is bad. Liberals have always been the remedy to fix the fiscal mismanagement of the cons. There's nothing conservative in spending by the cons, they're only conservative in shoving right wing religious views.

You can make all the comments you want about this, but the fact remains that much of the Conservative spending from THIS government was forced on it by the lunatic left who made demands "or else we'll topple the government and force an election", who then subsequently start crying foul when deficits are the (obvious) result.

If Paul Martin had been re-elected, we'd be paying for a Billion (For translation from Liberal to layman, see: multi-billion) dollar national daycare system. How the fuck would we be paying for THAT?

If Dion had been elected, we'd be paying out of our asses to cover carbon emissions that we're not even absolutely sure are going to destroy the world.

Give me a break.

If the Cons could actually govern like they wanted to, there'd have been TONS of spending cuts to go along with their tax-reductions.

quote:

Originally posted by gilboman I don't see why this is a surprise. All conservative governemnts from the past few decades have spent like drunken sailors and it always takes the liberals to fix their screwups. Raising Taxes or taxes in itself is perfectly fine, its needed and required. It's the cons approach to cutting taxes yet increasing spending that makes no sense. Cutting the stupid GST by 2% and some token minimal cuts to income taxes is creating a huge problem for us. The cons are bad manager of finance when economy is good, and atrocious when economy is bad. Liberals have always been the remedy to fix the fiscal mismanagement of the cons. There's nothing conservative in spending by the cons, they're only conservative in shoving right wing religious views.

Nothing you say in this post is consistent with what's actually happened. Canada had a "good" economy but lagged significantly behind the U.S. during the Cretin and Martin administrations. Now during Harper's 2nd term we're kicking their asses during the recession. I'm not necessarily saying that Harper's government is solely responsible for this but it certainly doesn't jibe with your statements.

Could they be doing better? Absolutely. But they have a minority government, and as such, their ability to make spending cuts is severely curtailed. What's "needed and required" other than redundancy is not tax hikes, it's spending cuts. But often what happens with a minority fiscal-conservative government is that the tax cuts go through (because they're popular with everyone) but spending cuts get shelved (because they're unpopular with tax-and-spend liberals).

It's also very easy to say that Conservative governments from the past "few decades" have spent like "drunken sailors" when the only Conservative government we've actually HAD in the past few decades was Mulroney's - and if memory serves, the problems were largely during his 2nd term, which is why he got re-elected the first time around.

I would love to see a government of fiscal conservatives and social liberals - believe me, I don't like the social conservative ("right wing religious" is a tad dramatic) views either. But real life involves trade-offs, and in the long haul, social conservatism is less damaging than fiscal liberalism, largely because society naturally becomes more socially liberal over time whereas fiscal mismanagement and nanny-statism almost always gets worse if left unchecked.

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