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Headphone-only production

I'm sure this has been discussed before but I haven't seen it brought up since I joined

I really want to step out of the realm of software-only production and start buying some actual gear and develop my own studio. I've considered buying a keyboard synth, but I feel like I should probably invest in some decent monitors first.

I work with AKG K701 headphones, and my question is, what are the benefits to working with monitors and headphones vs just headphones? I don't necessarily produce music to be played live, I understand that monitors are crucial for that, but beyond that are there any pros to producing with monitors that can't be achieved with relatively upper-end headphones like the K701's? Or more specifically, do those benefits justify spending several hundred dollars on them?

I obviously plan on buying some when I can more readily afford them, the question right now is if it's worth buying instead of a hardware synth, because that's what I'm trying to decide between right now.

Stereo field is the biggest. Headphones just are not good at creating a good stereo field (for obvious reasons) - You need to hear both speakers (monitors) in each.

i think the ipod revolution makes it essential to check your mix in headphones. LIke stephen mentioned, the stereo field will differ from monitors in that the stereo field will be much wider as each ear only hears the direct source.

Laidback Luke uses headphones instead of monitors.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQSER4QsrPg

quote:

Originally posted by Alekos Laidback Luke uses headphones instead of monitors. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQSER4QsrPg

and fl studio

i dont trust my new headfones enough. AKG 240 Studio

i use headphones to make tunes then my speakers for the mix-down

Akg 701 and SPL 2control

i don't have good monitors, most if not all my productions are started mono and completed in headphones

The benefits are (a) stereo field and (b) bass. It's certainly possible to produce with headphones just like it's possible to produce with pretty much any equipment, you just need to realize that people will hear a lot of things from stereo speakers that you won't hear out of your cans, no matter how good they are.

If you can test your mixes on anything else, even just some hi-fi speakers, you'll be better off for it.

Sorry, I probably should have clarified more, I know the benefits to producing with monitors, I'm just wondering if those benefits are worth spending several hundred dollars on when I'm already producing with $300 headphones. If it's not I'd rather get a hardware synth.

In my experience, the benefit of being able to accurately judge your bass/ low end is worth paying good money for monitors.

I can have something which sounds great in the low end on my headphones, but I throw it out to the monitors and it doesn't hit me in the chest the way it should.

In my experience, headphones can't give me how the bass "feels" hitting my body, they only gives me how the bass sounds.

It may be possible for others to be able to judge this in headphones, but I can't currently.

yes

headphones will be limited in that the listening character ,no matter how expensive they are, will differ from speakers. This means that your mix might sound great to anyone with headphones but it also might have some serious stereo imaging issues which will only reveal themselves on speakers. You could have some nasty phase distortion present and not realize it. I suppose you could sum to mono and listen but it is always a good idea to reference your tracks on the medium people might be listening with.

quote:

Originally posted by Kysora Sorry, I probably should have clarified more, I know the benefits to producing with monitors, I'm just wondering if those benefits are worth spending several hundred dollars on when I'm already producing with $300 headphones. If it's not I'd rather get a hardware synth.

Just my take on it, but the way I see it, a hardware synth doesn't really give you any abilities you don't already have (at least not when you're in the range of a few hundred bones), whereas good monitors will definitely enable you to hear things that you cannot hear on your cans. So from the perspective of the quality of your work output, monitors are definitely a better investment.

Of course if you're one of those people who does everything by trial and error and some small piece of hardware is going to improve the creative process by allowing you to fiddle at a faster rate than ever before, then I suppose that's the way to go. It all depends on you, really.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Just my take on it, but the way I see it, a hardware synth doesn't really give you any abilities you don't already have (at least not when you're in the range of a few hundred bones)

Mm, well I can play piano and currently don't have a MIDI keyboard, having a synth with a keyboard will help a lot in that regard. I'm also a very hands-on learner and want to learn how to make my own sounds instead of relying heavily on presets, and I feel I could more readily learn on hardware, as you suggested.

I think I got all the information I was looking for, though, thanks for the input.

quote:

Originally posted by Kysora Sorry, I probably should have clarified more, I know the benefits to producing with monitors, I'm just wondering if those benefits are worth spending several hundred dollars on when I'm already producing with $300 headphones. If it's not I'd rather get a hardware synth.

You really, don't, have to. It's a luxury (and arguably a necessity if you're a professional) but not entirely necessary.

Do you have a car? Do you have a home stereo? Do you have an ipod dock stereo thing?

Using those things you can really create good mixes with just headphones. Most people forget that... just because you only have headphones DOESN'T MEAN you don't have alternate reference speakers.

There is the catch, that, car stereo speakers won't exactly illuminate what's "wrong" in your mix... however some speaker systems accentuate something "wrong" in your mix.

I've found the best kind of studio reference monitors are the ones that sound "boring." The flatter, the truer, the better... which is why I'd stay away from the Alesis studio monitors (no matter how affordable) and go for some Adam speakers or Genelecs (no Mackies please).

That's my two cents,

Adam

quote:

Originally posted by Ry Thomas Akg 701 and SPL 2control

That SPL 2control is fucking slick and expensive

If you have an acoustically decent room, and space for monitors, then they should come first. Otherwise, there's no point getting them anyway...

quote:

Originally posted by wrzonance I've found the best kind of studio reference monitors are the ones that sound "boring." The flatter, the truer, the better... which is why I'd stay away from the Alesis studio monitors (no matter how affordable) and go for some Adam speakers or Genelecs (no Mackies please).

Does not apply to Dynaudios.

buy a synth, just use computer speakers for monitors.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Just my take on it, but the way I see it, a hardware synth doesn't really give you any abilities you don't already have (at least not when you're in the range of a few hundred bones), whereas good monitors will definitely enable you to hear things that you cannot hear on your cans. So from the perspective of the quality of your work output, monitors are definitely a better investment. Of course if you're one of those people who does everything by trial and error and some small piece of hardware is going to improve the creative process by allowing you to fiddle at a faster rate than ever before, then I suppose that's the way to go. It all depends on you, really.

this is so true (as usual from digi)...

i was actually in the same position as you Kysora, deciding on synth or speakers, and i chose synth and a few months later (thanks tax money) was able to buy speakers as well...

from personal experience i would say that speakers are far more important...
buy a cheap midi keyboard if you need one and some decent, or even cheap monitors before you get a hardware synth.

my production went up so much from having some monitors, and i could actually HEAR what i was doing clearly. As digi said, what i had was a synth that could make nice sounds, but essentially no way to hear if the sounds were actually good or not.

you will find that having monitors means you can get better sounds out of anything (softsynths etc) than you could get out a mad hardware synth if you didn't have the right tools to hear it...

if i had a do-over for my production experience i would go sound-card, speakers, midi keyboard, and then whatever else...

edit: of course, as has been said a few times, it is upto personal preference, but i definitely think that monitors are crucial now, after experiencing life without them for ages, using hi-fi speakers and headphones...

I had the opposite experience with monitors. I bought a pair of Hr824's, and some of my favorite tracks just sound like total shit, not pleasant to listen to at all. And I think to myself: 'gee, if that produce was using this monitors, some of my favorite tracks would of never been made..'

It's possibly because I didn't get the HRS-120 sub that goes with them for another grand. I NEED a sub for this type of music. I'm not even sure that's it.. There's just so much low-mids on the 824's i don't think i can ever enjoy a techno bass drum on them. too much 150-400hz around there it seems. but i guess ill never know unless i drop another grand on the sub that's meant to go with them.

I generally just stick to altec lansing PC speakers and AKG-701 headphones.. I rarely reference on my mackies, although it can be nice for the fresh perspective at times to get the levels balanced.

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