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A few questions about switching over.

Hey guys, as i started uni this semester (finance major) I've been taking my heavy ibuypower laptop around to classes. This laptop has been my main source of everything for about two years now. Not too mention its a 17 inch beast of computer that weighs an obscene amount and the charger itself is extremely heavy.


Basically i want to buy a 15 inch macbook pro as it is all around more portable and whatnot. But i dont want to stop there, I'm also seriously considering transferring over to logic. At this point i already know how to use cubase 4, reason 4, and FL8. So i just have a few questions i need to ask.

1) After knowing those programs, how is the learning curve for logic?
2) Seeing as I've bought a decent amount of VSTi and VST at this point, is there any way to transfer them to the AU format? Or are the included synths and effects more than sufficient?
3)How stable and overall workable is the Rewire function in logic 9 with reason?
4) I have two interfaces at the moment, m-audio firewire 410 and a behringer fca 202, will i need to purchase a new one?
5) I heard that there are problem with logic and the virus TI functioning properly, does this still persist?

And also guys any other information you guys may have about making the switch from PC to Mac is really appreciated. Please feel free to add anything that is relevant, thanks in advance guys. All i ask is please don't let this become a flame war for PC vs Mac or anything like that.

4)
Your M-Audio Firewire 410 will work on macs!

I've been casting around for a new laptop, if you go to the Ableton forums, you can find a thread called the ableton performance test, where people compare the power of their computers. I found that thread pretty helpful, because up until then I was going to buy a macbook pro for its build quality, and then run windows on it.

My computer (3 years old in march) was running at about 55% with spikes to 70. A new macbook with the fastest Core2duo processor was running about 70% in some cases.

Generally, the macs were running slower than the eqivalent PCs, and definately no faster than my 3 year old laptop. And if you look at some PC laptops now, they're starting to use the Core i7 processor, which in those tests was getting as low as 18-20% system usage.

If you need a laptop for taking notes at uni, I'd say get a cheap netbook, and save up for a more powerful laptop or desktop for production. You're wasting cash otherwise IMO. The macbooks are pretty underpowered.

PS
I realise this thread has nothing to do with ableton, but the test seemed like a good benchmark to use for audio production.

quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips I've been casting around for a new laptop, if you go to the Ableton forums, you can find a thread called the ableton performance test, where people compare the power of their computers. I found that thread pretty helpful, because up until then I was going to buy a macbook pro for its build quality, and then run windows on it. My computer (3 years old in march) was running at about 55% with spikes to 70. A new macbook with the fastest Core2duo processor was running about 70% in some cases. Generally, the macs were running slower than the eqivalent PCs, and definately no faster than my 3 year old laptop. And if you look at some PC laptops now, they're starting to use the Core i7 processor, which in those tests was getting as low as 18-20% system usage. If you need a laptop for taking notes at uni, I'd say get a cheap netbook, and save up for a more powerful laptop or desktop for production. You're wasting cash otherwise IMO. The macbooks are pretty underpowered. PS I realise this thread has nothing to do with ableton, but the test seemed like a good benchmark to use for audio production.

Not sure if ableton is the best example, i assumed that logic was much more efficient on Mac than any other DAW because it was optimized to be so. Correct me if i'm wrong.

I think you wont have much problem in terms of learning to get the basics out the way and start making beats. A month or 2 and learning all the deeper stuff and keyboard shortcuts etc should get you on your way. I went from R4 and some use of cubase to using logic for a few weeks a fairly easy cross over. Logic was very nice to take in, and enjoyable to use.

I havent used it in a while since and gone back to reason because it wasnt my machine, but cant wait to start using logic again. I'm looking at buying a mac right now.

quote:

Originally posted by Stef Not sure if ableton is the best example, i assumed that logic was much more efficient on Mac than any other DAW because it was optimized to be so. Correct me if i'm wrong.

yeah true, and logic won't run on any other system. So I guess its a question of whether you're set on using logic. Seems like any other DAW you run will be slower on a mac, and its not clear to me whether Logic's optimisations will offset the mac's inferior power.

Re: A few questions about switching over.

quote:

[i]Basically i want to buy a 15 inch macbook pro as it is all around more portable and whatnot. But i dont want to stop there, I'm also seriously considering transferring over to logic. At this point i already know how to use cubase 4, reason 4, and FL8. So i just have a few questions i need to ask

Why would you even consider this...are you having trouble with other daws...

Re: Re: A few questions about switching over.

quote:

Originally posted by isrefel Why would you even consider this...are you having trouble with other daws...

Nope, its just few small things like compatibility with my producer friends here, portability of a mac(i'll be leaving to japan in a few months or study abroad), logic seems really awesome with version 9, and is definitely an upgrade from cubase educational 4

quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips yeah true, and logic won't run on any other system. So I guess its a question of whether you're set on using logic. Seems like any other DAW you run will be slower on a mac, and its not clear to me whether Logic's optimisations will offset the mac's inferior power.

Performance is based on all things considered, so the statement that a mac might be inferior is not accurate.

yes, you can't benchmark logic in any other platform but cubase has in fact been compared and the macbook pros hold their own or toast equivalent price pc laptops. The problem is with ableton's coding, not the mac itself.

Iwas a decade long user of Cubase before I jumped to Logic and I've never looked back. logic is superb to use.

Ah ok, if its an ableton specific problem, then I guess that explains it.

I wonder about this all the time. I see a LOT of big time studios and producers who are Mac, and yet the majority of the amateur market is PC based. If we can all agree that PC vs Mac is a moot point because you can produce equally well on either platform, what is the reason why there is such a discrepancy between the amateur and "pro" studios?

Certainly money factors into it, as most people starting out cant afford Apple prices. Is there really such brand loyalty in the market? I have my own reasons for choosing the Apple platform, but I can afford it. That may not be the case for others. Considering that Mac is such a small percentage of the overall workstation market, why is it that so many studios are Mac based?

In addition, the audio software development market is affected by this as well as they are more likely to put resources into Mac versions of their products than other markets. There is so much software out there that is PC only and that is buoyed by the fact that development on the Windows platform has become progressively easier in this decade, particularly with the advent of managed code such as the .NET Framework. However, in the audio world, you are more likely to see equal development put into Mac versions and rarely do you see PC only versions of audio software.

Just a thought.

quote:

Originally posted by Eric J I wonder about this all the time. I see a LOT of big time studios and producers who are Mac, and yet the majority of the amateur market is PC based. If we can all agree that PC vs Mac is a moot point because you can produce equally well on either platform, what is the reason why there is such a discrepancy between the amateur and "pro" studios? Certainly money factors into it, as most people starting out cant afford Apple prices. Is there really such brand loyalty in the market? I have my own reasons for choosing the Apple platform, but I can afford it. That may not be the case for others. Considering that Mac is such a small percentage of the overall workstation market, why is it that so many studios are Mac based? In addition, the audio software development market is affected by this as well as they are more likely to put resources into Mac versions of their products than other markets. There is so much software out there that is PC only and that is buoyed by the fact that development on the Windows platform has become progressively easier in this decade, particularly with the advent of managed code such as the .NET Framework. However, in the audio world, you are more likely to see equal development put into Mac versions and rarely do you see PC only versions of audio software. Just a thought.

Simply put: stability and maintenance.

We run nearly two dozen macs in the studio and that is every mix, recording and editing computer in the faciliy, aside from some composers personal rigs which are PC. The samplers are mainly PC based.

In a pro studio, down time is money. Serious Money. For example:

When you've got a union gig going with 10 musicians in the live room a 5 minute over run can literally cost thousands becuase of the overtime union rate.

When you are on a deadline of a major TV show and you have to finish the mix so that show can go to air 48 hours later, missing that deadline can cost you that series, that show franchise or even the losing the entire studio.

When you have a limited number of engineers who often have to multitask like you wouldn't beleive, computer maintenance HAS to be the smallest propertion of the job.

I know I'm going to get the PC defenders coming out for this statement but Mac have no where near the random stability issues that PC's have. It's a fact. we've run both (and still do) and the Macs, hands down are so much easier to maintain and simply not worry about than the PCs.

For instance we had a window of 6 hours to format all 4 pro tools macs in one of the studio and reinstall all software and all plugins. Two of us did it in 4 hours. With PC's we simply could not have done it in time.

I'm not saying macs don't crash - they do, but no where near the amount we have experienced with PC's and the fix is just a 30 second restart in 99% of the cases, and that saves serious fallout.

the other reason is pro tools - you've got no choice there and pro studios use pro tools because nothing else can do what it does to it's level of options. Furthermore, people who are paying serious money to rent a studio expect to see pro tools and if they don't see it they don't understand. It may not be right, but it's a fact.

Finally a lot of producers use mac becuase they aren't techincal in terms of in depth computer skill so need something they can switch on and just work on. Macs do, even if you want to try to argue it, have that ability over over PCs.

Macs will continue to be the choice of platform for pro studios for these reasons and I don't see any sign of it changing anytime soon.

I think having the fact that most home users are only running a single PC makes a difference. Formatting one PC which takes 2 hours is ok, but formatting 4 which takes two hours exponentially increases downtime.

The price you pay for this supposed stability is lack of performance though, so I'm skeptical as to whether its worth it for home users given the current discrepancy - by which I mean core2duo vs Core i7.

Re: A few questions about switching over.

quote:

Originally posted by Stef 1) After knowing those programs, how is the learning curve for logic? 2) Seeing as I've bought a decent amount of VSTi and VST at this point, is there any way to transfer them to the AU format? Or are the included synths and effects more than sufficient? 3)How stable and overall workable is the Rewire function in logic 9 with reason?

1) Logic isn't the easiest program to master but it will make things a whole lot easier if you buy the 2 training manuals. They contain step by step tutorials on most of the major functions and it shows you how to do stuff you just wouldn't dream of doing just sitting their playing with things. Highly Recommended.

2) Your VSTs will not work in Logic. Logic is AU only and even if it wasn't or you used a VST Wrapper a Mac VST is different to a PC VST. If you purchased them I would assume technical support would be able to provide you with Mac AU equivalents. I don't use many of the bundled synths and effects but they're still very usable. You could make great music with them for sure.

3) Never tried it but I would say it works fine, never seen anyone complaining about it. Once you learn Logic though you might find you won't want or need Reason any more. I see a lot of threads about rewiring Reason so they can use Redrum but Ultrabeat dicks all over it.

Mobile i7 chips aren't too far away now, I'd wait and get one of those

i bought 13" macbook pro this summer and im happy. also trying to learn logic express 8 but it goes slow. Reason works great on here. Also the new Record works great and so does ableton, all very stabile. Only iTunes and Quicktime has crashed on me, rest is working as a charm. Now that Leopard Snow OS came out iTunes and Quicktime is also alot more stabile. Some things are really annoying in OSX but not as much as Windows (omg i hate windows, i just want to drop a nuke on bill gates, he is the devil himself). After all the bitching i went throw on a PC its really fucking nice to finaly be able to consentrate on the music (or the webbrowsing, or whatever i wanna do) instead of using all my time fixing up, backing up, reinnstalling Windows. When it comes to Logic its really to early for me to say anything. It seems massively overdone, but so does all other daws ive ever tried except Reason.

What would be fucking cool would be to develop my own OS/DAW/Sequencer (all-in-one). This is something ive been really thinking alot about lately, it cant be that fucking hard right?

quote:

Originally posted by palm i bought 13" macbook pro this summer...Only iTunes and Quicktime has crashed on me,...

That's pretty ironic.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik That's pretty ironic.

lol, good call. :P

i switched from cubase sx 3 to logic 8 and found the change over very easy plus the logic built in instruments are top quality. id never change back to cubase.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik That's pretty ironic.

yeah i know. part of the reason why im really sceptical to be totaly into Logic, and was a real sceptic to the whole mac thing in the start. but things is getting better, and im starting to like even iTunes hehe. theres a few weird things on a mac which i would totaly change emidiately but luckely it doesnt affect performance.

quote:

Originally posted by palm yeah i know. part of the reason why im really sceptical to be totaly into Logic, and was a real sceptic to the whole mac thing in the start. but things is getting better, and im starting to like even iTunes hehe. theres a few weird things on a mac which i would totaly change emidiately but luckely it doesnt affect performance.

You should get Bill Gates to pay you a boatload of money to be their new poster boy. Imagine the ad:

"Hi, I'm a Mac and even my own company's products are incompatible with me. So, buy a PC. They just work (with Windows Media Player and other MS apps)."

Remember, you don't have to believe it, just sell it.

problem is that windows is even more shitty solutions, and then all the linux solutions are just wow, is it possible to make something this shitty, 10 times more shit than windows? im not apple-fan-boy lol, i hate big companys in general and all but when theres only two options i go with the one that works fastest for me without any trouble. and the design is awesome. would love to make my own daw though (both hardware and software). my dreamlaptop would have internal soundcard with 4 balanced jacks and one stereo jack for headphone, all 6mm. jesus would that be great.

quote:

Originally posted by palm l, i hate big companys in general .

you do realise every piece of equipment you own comes from a big company whether it be the end product of the circuit boards in them .

probably why i hate almost everything i have and exists on the market except some small-company hifi-solutions. tvs? sucks as, wheres the 11mm led tvs?. playstation3? what a peace of big and noisy junk (not even back-compatible). my car should be running on solarpower and be flying now, its 2010 damnit. economy and big business seems to hold back on technology as long as they earn money on shit. cell phones? geesus... hardware synths? terrible. i like my macbook and my stereo though and thats about it. but why the hell arent laptops equipped with better soundcards? like atleast RCA plugs and a a budget CD player DAC? cant cost that much? I hate external soundcards.

quote:

Originally posted by sterilis i switched from cubase sx 3 to logic 8 and found the change over very easy plus the logic built in instruments are top quality. id never change back to cubase.

Hey bro do you mind if i ask you a few more questions about specifically, like PM or AIM or MSN?

Re: Re: A few questions about switching over.

quote:

Originally posted by Cryogen 1) Logic isn't the easiest program to master but it will make things a whole lot easier if you buy the 2 training manuals. They contain step by step tutorials on most of the major functions and it shows you how to do stuff you just wouldn't dream of doing just sitting their playing with things. Highly Recommended. 2) Your VSTs will not work in Logic. Logic is AU only and even if it wasn't or you used a VST Wrapper a Mac VST is different to a PC VST. If you purchased them I would assume technical support would be able to provide you with Mac AU equivalents. I don't use many of the bundled synths and effects but they're still very usable. You could make great music with them for sure. 3) Never tried it but I would say it works fine, never seen anyone complaining about it. Once you learn Logic though you might find you won't want or need Reason any more. I see a lot of threads about rewiring Reason so they can use Redrum but Ultrabeat dicks all over it. Mobile i7 chips aren't too far away now, I'd wait and get one of those

thanks for the info!

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