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Do any of you guys with pro gear....

...actually do anything useful with it?

i have been reading trance-addict threads for ages and pay close attention to the production forums mainly.
i like looking at other peoples home studios on the pictures topic but sometimes have a real problem understanding why so many people have gear costing $$$$$$ when no matter what they do it sounds like generic boring stuff that could be made on fruity loops and the bundled vst synthhesisers. In particular i see some studios that looks so good that i search for music by the studio owners and then wonder how the hell they could need so much good gear for the rubbish they have made. its more the total lack of artistic ability than the technical side of things i guess. why are there so many gear heads here, and so little musicians?

It's easier to buy gear than it is to improve music-writing skills.

Doesn't mean that everyone with nice gear makes bad music, in fact I would say it's often the opposite as many people with *really* nice studios have been in the game for at least five or ten years and honed their skills and broadened their tastes and artistic efforts over that time. There are probably even more crappy songwriters out there who downloaded a cracked copy of Cubase or FL a year ago and are well on their way to making generic junk that copies the style of one or two of their favorite artists.

Re: Do any of you guys with pro gear....

quote:

Originally posted by DEAD_MOOSE why are there so many gear heads here, and so little musicians?

You should look up the definition of musician - it's a person who makes music. Aside from perhaps a few trolls, every person on this forum is a musician. A few questions for you:

1) what do you define as "pro" gear? Based on your FLS statement, I assume that you are referring to hardware? Guess what? Hardware is not "pro" gear any more than software is "amateur" gear. Until the last few decades, everybody learned on hardware - some of us started on bargain bin junk and others started on pro gear or custom hand-made instruments handed down from our parents, etc.

2) Why the hell do you care what people spend their own hard-earned money on? If a beginner wants to buy a $3000 Andromeda or Moog to learn on, how is that a problem for you? Some people like things like knobs, sliders, keyboards, etc. and understand that the resale value of hardware is generally much higher than software.

3) Since you made the accusatory remarks, why don't you show some backbone and give us some examples of these gearheads/non-musicians who have $$$$$ invested in their studio, but are producing "rubbish" and have a "total lack or artistic ability" in your opinion. Oh yeah, and while you're at it, why don't you provide a link to your own music so we can put your opinions regarding other people's music in perspective?

Re: Re: Do any of you guys with pro gear....

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik You should look up the definition of musician - it's a person who makes music. Aside from perhaps a few trolls, every person on this forum is a musician. A few questions for you: 1) what do you define as "pro" gear? Based on your FLS statement, I assume that you are referring to hardware? Guess what? Hardware is not "pro" gear any more than software is "amateur" gear. Until the last few decades, everybody learned on hardware - some of us started on bargain bin junk and others started on pro gear or custom hand-made instruments handed down from our parents, etc. 2) Why the hell do you care what people spend their own hard-earned money on? If a beginner wants to buy a $3000 Andromeda or Moog to learn on, how is that a problem for you? Some people like things like knobs, sliders, keyboards, etc. and understand that the resale value of hardware is generally much higher than software. 3) Since you made the accusatory remarks, why don't you show some backbone and give us some examples of these gearheads/non-musicians who have $$$$$ invested in their studio, but are producing "rubbish" and have a "total lack or artistic ability" in your opinion. Oh yeah, and while you're at it, why don't you provide a link to your own music so we can put your opinions regarding other people's music in perspective?

+1,000

Great first post. I bet you're not trying to stir up shit at all.

Re: Re: Do any of you guys with pro gear....

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik You should look up the definition of musician - it's a person who makes music. Aside from perhaps a few trolls, every person on this forum is a musician. A few questions for you: 1) what do you define as "pro" gear? Based on your FLS statement, I assume that you are referring to hardware? Guess what? Hardware is not "pro" gear any more than software is "amateur" gear. Until the last few decades, everybody learned on hardware - some of us started on bargain bin junk and others started on pro gear or custom hand-made instruments handed down from our parents, etc. 2) Why the hell do you care what people spend their own hard-earned money on? If a beginner wants to buy a $3000 Andromeda or Moog to learn on, how is that a problem for you? Some people like things like knobs, sliders, keyboards, etc. and understand that the resale value of hardware is generally much higher than software. 3) Since you made the accusatory remarks, why don't you show some backbone and give us some examples of these gearheads/non-musicians who have $$$$$ invested in their studio, but are producing "rubbish" and have a "total lack or artistic ability" in your opinion. Oh yeah, and while you're at it, why don't you provide a link to your own music so we can put your opinions regarding other people's music in perspective?

1. 'Pro' Gear doesnt have to be hardware i know this. You got to be in some way or another thinking 'pro' when you invest in a waves bundle/logic pro/an access virus/moog.this stuff costs a fortune.

2.i dont really care if someone wants to waste their money on gear they will never take full advantage of - i have on many occasions benefitted from buying used gear cheaper off these fools who jump in head first before knowing if they will really stick with the whole music making bandwagon thing thats going on. i suppose im sour because im an artistic thinker who requires a bit more gear than i can afford (being artistic and a bit deep means i struggle to stick with a dead end job like office work). on the flip, the majority of people who can afford the type of gear i require tend to be the types who are unartistic, non musical people who are more of the mindset to fit right in working for an insurance broker or telesales firms (thus the solid day job can pay for this stuff).

3.im not going to post my own music because i dont care for the opinions of those who will be trying their hardest to pick my works to pieces. Id say though that your myspace page pretty much sums up what i mean in terms of musical output. sure, the style is fluffy, happy, bouncy etc. sounds clear and well produced yes, but from reading your kit list i see an access virus, nord lead, etc, but from listening to the tracks on your player i dont hear any real milking of your equipment, or very much creativity. i just hear sounds that sound like the virus/nord presets that the bundled fl synths try to replicate.

surely someone else must see and hear what im talking about? this sort of thing is exactly the reason why music is at its all time low. im not trying to be nasty, im being honest and truthful to my own opinions. and the fact that you jumped in so quick with a carefully thought out response would suggest that in some way i hit a sore point or touched upon a deep rooted thought you might have had youself. can you honestly say that you really make the most of all that gear you got, and that you wouldnt make just as much progress with a midi controller and a copy of reason?

So if you don't want to post your own music:

What electronic artists (present or past) do you think show a high level of creativity and sounds that don't sound like FL studio presets? Curious what you are using as standards of comparison.

OP is coming across as an untalented bitter hack with a dead end job.

I have gear and software because I enjoy having it and because I believe it adds something to my workspace which I was missing out on before. I don't mind having spent a couple of grand this year on music gear/software/samples. If my songs sound like a fruity loops preset to you or anybody else I wouldn't be happy but on the other hand that doesn't matter much either.

I take pride in the stuff that I have collected (and worked for) and I enjoy my own productions and enjoy making them even more. That's what matter's most. Your opinion is immaterial to me. If you like it I'm happy, if you don't I don't mind, I have more important things to worry about .

To most people it's mainly a hobby anyway.

Some people spend their money on cars but it doesn't mean they are race car drivers. It's the same with music gear.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery To most people it's mainly a hobby anyway. Some people spend their money on cars but it doesn't mean they are race car drivers. It's the same with music gear.

^ my thoughts exactly

Re: Re: Re: Do any of you guys with pro gear....

quote:

Originally posted by DEAD_MOOSE Id say though that your myspace page pretty much sums up what i mean in terms of musical output. sure, the style is fluffy, happy, bouncy etc. sounds clear and well produced yes, but from reading your kit list i see an access virus, nord lead, etc, but from listening to the tracks on your player i dont hear any real milking of your equipment, or very much creativity. i just hear sounds that sound like the virus/nord presets that the bundled fl synths try to replicate.

Fair enough. I don't claim to have the most original sounds and, if you've been hanging around here very long at all as you mentioned in your OP, then there's a good chance that you've heard my reasoning for this - I prefer the vocals to be the main focus of my tracks and I try to avoid having too many sounds that detract from that. I use expensive hardware gear because I've been a musician and synth programmer for 30+ years and that's the way I prefer to work. Now that I'm older and settled down with a family and pretty high-paying career, I'm at a place in my life where I can afford to have nice gear. Unfortunately, my family/career/lifestyle limit my personal time a lot, so I don't get to use it as much as I'd like, but that's a whole other story.

Also, I will mention that the 20-some songs on my myspace player represent a small fraction of the music I've written/produced in my life (I have a degree in music, btw), so you may want to be a little careful about your assumptions when it comes to making generalizations about other people's capabilities - just because someone isn't showing you the range of one's creativity, knowledge, etc., on their myspace page doesn't mean that it isn't greater than your perception.

quote:

Originally posted by DEAD_MOOSE and the fact that you jumped in so quick with a carefully thought out response would suggest that in some way i hit a sore point or touched upon a deep rooted thought you might have had youself. can you honestly say that you really make the most of all that gear you got, and that you wouldnt make just as much progress with a midi controller and a copy of reason?

Yes, this "deep-rooted thought" gets discussed here a lot, that's why we're so quick to jump in with these types of responses. And, yes, I could easily (and sometimes do) make the music I make with far less gear and a simpler setup, but I don't want to. Also, as I mentioned previously, I like the resale value of hardware. Now that I have the initial investment out of the way, I buy/sell/trade gear pretty often for the sheer joy of playing with new toys, with no out-of-pocket cost (and, often at a profit). That doesn't work with software.

quote:

Originally posted by DEAD_MOOSE 3.im not going to post my own music because i dont care for the opinions of those who will be trying their hardest to pick my works to pieces.

Well, then there's no nice way to say this - you can talk about how "deep" and "artistic" you are until the cows come home, but if you are too afraid of something as simple and harmless as having your music criticized, then you are a coward. And, you're the worst kind of coward and hypocrite because you take the time to point out other's perceived flaws and blame us for not being creative, but are too afraid to show us how creative you are??? It's not like we really care; it happens all the time on EDM forums - the people who blast others for not being creative are almost invariably the ones who fall into one of two categories: 1) their music is even less creative, so they play the blame game to make themselves feel superior, or 2) they produce very "creative" music that is weird for the sake of being weird and appeals to almost nobody.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Great first post. I bet you're not trying to stir up shit at all.

Agree. The OP is most definitely not a troll.

Re: Re: Re: Do any of you guys with pro gear....

First of all who the fuck are u to come in here and start telling people that there songs sound plain...
Who gives a damn if u use a preset in a track if it sounds good and works
obviously your just trying to wind people up or your just a knob
armin uses presets I've seen a interview when he admits it... Would you call the worlds number one Dj in the world non musical and uncreative.. Doubtful
run back to ur hole and stop trolling

and I'm sure the reason u don't want to show your music is because maybe your the uncreative one?

Thoughts??

Re: Re: Re: Re: Do any of you guys with pro gear....

quote:

Originally posted by johncannons1 [...] obviously your just trying to wind people up [..] run back to ur hole and stop trolling [..] Thoughts??

Seems like he's succeeding.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles So if you don't want to post your own music: What electronic artists (present or past) do you think show a high level of creativity and sounds that don't sound like FL studio presets? Curious what you are using as standards of comparison.

a couple of artists id say have thought out of the box in terms of sounds and styles:

1. M.I.K.E on his production of YDR's 'Feel Free'. even now, it doesnt sound cliche of the time. That was thinking out of the box when they decided to apply an automated volume on the main lead.

2. Stuart Price on his rmx of lady gaga's 'paparazzi'. the vocal work he has done is amazing. its original artistically and technically.

3. schossow is making the most out of what ever gear he is using. 'beast' for example. i had not heared many a track with such unnatural sounds sounding so organic and human until i heared this.

4. Mark Broom 'Twenty Nine' - mark broom may well be the current 'go to' for all these boring and lifeless wannabe superstar dj's with soundcloud accounts, but listen closely and you hear a real artisticly talented man at work.

5. Stephen Bodzin 'io' - need i say more?

all these tracks stand out and shout out the sheer musicality and originality that lurks within the minds of the musicians that wrote them.

Re: Re: Re: Do any of you guys with pro gear....

quote:

Originally posted by DEAD_MOOSE i suppose im sour because im an artistic thinker who requires a bit more gear than i can afford (being artistic and a bit deep means i struggle to stick with a dead end job like office work).

What sort of gear do you require? If so, what are you basing your requirements on - the way the gear sounds? If you happened to acquire this gear, let's say a Virus (I have no idea what kind of gear you're after), would you then make it sound totally unlike a Virus? Why not just make a VST synth sound totally unlike itself and save yourself the money? If you're sick of people getting 'Virus sounds' out of Viruses, why would you want one?

(it's interesting that in the same paragraph you say "can you honestly say that you really make the most of all that gear you got, and that you wouldnt make just as much progress with a midi controller and a copy of reason?") - on the one hand, you "require a bit more gear", on the other people should just use a midi controller and Reason - which is it?

It seems like you're frustrated, and unfortunately that is leading you into massive generalisations which won't help your state of mind one bit:

"why are there so many gear heads here, and so little musicians?"

"the majority of people who can afford the type of gear i require tend to be the types who are unartistic, non musical people who are more of the mindset to fit right in working for an insurance broker or telesales firms"

Realise that these are only your opinions. This is your truth, not "the" truth.

Don't expect that because you believe that you are an amazing musician that things will be handed to you. There's nothing wrong with believing that you're an amazing musician (on the contrary, it could be very helpful for inspiring you to get in the studio to make music), but if you truly love music and want to bring yours to the world, then do whatever it takes to make that happen. Not many people want to do office work - there are millions of musicians out there who don't love their office jobs, same as you. But a lot of them do use the money they earn to improve their studios, and do use their evenings and weekends to create beautiful music. They realise it's a long journey and commit themselves to it.

Is there much chance of someone recognising your brilliance, providing you with a top of the line music studio and plenty of money so you don't have to work in your office job anymore? If not, there are a few options - you could keep at it so that the money can support your musical interests, so that you can bring your music to the world. Or you could go on an internet forum of your peers and have a big rant about the world. I'm hoping you decide to focus on your music rather than on things you can't control.

i think if i had the money id just blow it all on a very large monitoring system so i could hear whats going on in my mixes. im happy with my old pc,and a legit copy of logic in terms of editing, arranging, recording and sequencing.

my original post may have been harsh towards some people, but its always good to ruffle a few feathers and say stuff that quite blatantly others think to themselves and never think to say it out of being too polite. i am disgruntled and bitter. and often it takes a grumpy old man to say stuff like this. shame most grumpy bastards tend to be pidgeon holed into the failure / loser category by the happy go lucky numb nuts who fit in so well in our boring modern society.

quote:

Originally posted by DEAD_MOOSE a couple of artists id say have thought out of the box in terms of sounds and styles: 1. M.I.K.E on his production of YDR's 'Feel Free'. 2. Stuart Price on his rmx of lady gaga's 'paparazzi'. 3. schossow 4. Mark Broom 'Twenty Nine' - 5. Stephen Bodzin 'io' - need i say more? all these tracks stand out and shout out the sheer musicality and originality that lurks within the minds of the musicians that wrote them.

Sorry, but that's one of the funniest things I've read around in here in quite some time. Using trance/EDM producers/DJs as your benchmark for musicality and originality is quite hilarious really. No offense to my fellow tranceheads, but if you want sheer musicality and originality, you'll be hard-pressed to find it in trance/EDM, which is highly formulaic and repetitive by design and leaves relatively little room for creativity, performance, expression, etc. compared to most genres. Look around a little and you'll see that it's a widespread problem for many newbie trance producers like yourself to think that they are creating something completely new, when in fact, the vast majority of EDM producers are just following the same old tried-and-true formulas that everyone else is following. That's not to say that there aren't some true pioneers out there in EDM, but you aren't one of them, so get off your high horse already and quit crying about what other people are doing with their time and money. How's that for ruffling some feathers?

Oh, and welcome to tranceaddicts!

Man, I totally agree with you about so many generic sounds out there and lots of people not making enough of their gear, but this stuff about your job and not fitting into "boring modern society" just comes off as whiny. I consider myself a person with a lot of artistic ambition and someone who tries to avoid using cliched sounds and styles, too, and yeah I am sometimes disappointed I can't do music all the time rather than getting a boring regular job, but I try not to get too huffy about it.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Do any of you guys with pro gear....

quote:

Originally posted by johncannons1 and I'm sure the reason u don't want to show your music is because maybe your the uncreative one? Thoughts??

As evidenced by his user name? I'm surprised he didn't put "DJ" in front of it for uber-originality!

- just giving you a hard time, Moose - I consider you family now.

im not upset in the slightest. i understand the ways of Trance-Addict- its a dry place, full of clued up people and lots of easily upset people.

I could suggest a lot more ground breaking artists out of the dance genre, but thought it wise to use some tracks that all can relate to in some way or another. i find it hard to understand how you can question the intergrity of any of these pieces of music (and the artists behind them) that i used as examples.

How bold of you to come here and cite a few examples of great music from great artists as a reason as to why we with all our pro gear suck.

*claps*

thanks for opening our eyes and pointing us in the right direction!

Would you perhaps have some more examples? A light bulb has really clicked in my head after reading your wisdom filled posts.

quote:

Originally posted by DEAD_MOOSE i find it hard to understand how you can question the intergrity of any of these pieces of music...

Because it's dance music. It's very simple music, has very simple melodies and arrangements, and most of them use 4 chords or less. That's not a bad thing - people dancing in a club don't want to hear Stravinsky, but don't try to convince me that the music you listed is among the most creative music being made or that its creators are doing something outstanding in terms of artistic ability or musical creativity. Believe me, I've had quite a bit of musical training and I know the difference.

quote:

Originally posted by DEAD_MOOSE ...(and the artists behind them) that i used as examples.

I was half joking about the artists to make my point about you getting off your high horse. For the record, at least two of the artists you listed supported the original and a remix of a song of mine and I'm very appreciative of that, so the joke was in pretty bad taste (and wasn't funny anyway... ).

quote:

Originally posted by DjStephenWiley Would you perhaps have some more examples? A light bulb has really clicked in my head after reading your wisdom filled posts.

im afraid my examples have dried up for now. keep checking back stephen, keep checking back.

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