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Posted by Beatflux on Nov-06-2009 05:39:

Getting a Cleaner Mix In Ableton

I stumbled across this post on Gearslutz called "The Reason Most ITB mixes don�t Sound as good as Analog mixes" and he talked about the importance of gain staging.

edit: I thought I heard a difference between -12 and -20 simpler output levels, but it turns out I left a compressor on one of them.

Posted by kitphillips on Nov-06-2009 06:03:

Its very true that DAW meters suck. Thats one of the main reasons I like to mix hot, because the meter's not that big and its hard to see level fluctuations when the levels lower due to the scale.

Theres actually a few other interesting points in that thread too. Firstly, that digital has a very precise top end that needs taming with low pass filters, secondly, that digital mixes have more dynamic range than analogue because of the lack of tape saturation and distortion, I'm guessing maybe this is why I like having a compressor on the master channel, because it allows a little bit more leeway with the levels.

Posted by RichieV on Nov-06-2009 06:28:

Re: Getting a Cleaner Mix In Ableton

quote:
Originally posted by Beatflux
I stumbled across this post on Gearslutz called "The Reason Most ITB mixes don�t Sound as good as Analog mixes" and he talked about the importance of gain staging.

I started to tinker in Ableton to see if I could improve anything and this is what I did:

Create four channels each with simpler on each one. I had a trance kick, open hihat, close hihat, and a clap running a straight forward trance beat. The default output volume for Simpler is -12db so I left it there and saved the project calling it "gain -12." Next I went into each Simpler and turned down the output volume to -20db saving it as "gain -20." After turning down the volume I turned up my sound card by 8db and compared the two projects.

What was the difference?

I was elated because there was a very noticeable difference. Turning down Simpler made things more clear and less noisy.

can you verify this by boosting the signal in a wave editor by the 8dB ? What if your soundcard adds a little more than 8 dB which would make it a little louder thus to most sound better.

Posted by Beatflux on Nov-06-2009 10:38:

Re: Re: Getting a Cleaner Mix In Ableton

quote:
Originally posted by RichieV
can you verify this by boosting the signal in a wave editor by the 8dB ? What if your soundcard adds a little more than 8 dB which would make it a little louder thus to most sound better.

They null. I don't even remember putting a compressor on one of the tracks, but I did! Haha.

Posted by MrJiveBoJingles on Nov-06-2009 14:25:

Does it strike anyone else as kind of funny that for decades engineers struggled to get as much dynamic range as possible out of analog media, and were overjoyed when digital recording increased the range, only to have people years later think of digital's larger dynamic range as a negative point? It seems strange to hear dance music producers talking about the advantages of processing files at a higher bit depth when most of them never even use the greater dynamic range that the higher bit depth provides.

Posted by RichieV on Nov-06-2009 14:47:

yup. I said the same thing in the bit thread and everyone called me a retard.

Posted by evo8 on Nov-06-2009 19:35:

quote:
Originally posted by RichieV
yup. I said the same thing in the bit thread and everyone called me a retard.

Dont worry about it, gearslutz if full of fucking retards.
I remember one guy posting in one of those "analog is better" threads saying "I can spot an analog lead from the dance floor, not saying i can prove it or anything - i just can"

And the sad thing about it is - im sure he wasnt trolling...