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Twiddling EQ's on mixer

Hi all,

I've been getting to grips with DJ'ing for the past 6 months (self-taught), I am pretty comfortable with everything etc. My question is about using the EQ's when mixing between two tracks.

Generally my EQ knobs for both tracks are set to approx 4'o'clock for treble, 3'o'clock for midrange, and 1'o'clock for bass frequencies.

When mixing between two tracks, I normally either:
a) leave everything the same, except on track two use the hamster switch to kill bass, then bring track in, and then at the beginning of a phase swap the bass kills, so track 2 is now the bassline, and track 1 is has muted bass.
b) turn bass knob on track 2 down to approx 9'o'clock, bring track in, and gradually move track 2's bass knob to 1'o'clock while moving track 1's bass knob to 9'o'clock...

What I am trying to achieve is really smooth mixes, generally it's sounding pretty good but I just want to make sure there's not a better way I'm missing out on.

How does everyone else twiddle the EQ's so that their mixes sound smooooooth??? Should I be adjusting the treble eq's as well or is bass enough?

All help appreciated!!
Cheers
Aurora2

wow, 4 3 and 1... i keep mine lined up at 12, all three eq's... maybe thats why your mixes don't sound smooth... don't you get shrieking high vocals or really loud high hats??

everyone seems to have their EQ's in diffrent positions. personaly I think having the eqs all at 12 make everything sound very flat. I have the High and the Mid at 1 - 2. The bass is always more at around 3. Of course it could be diffrent for every record.

Whenever i see a dj spin live their eqs are into the +

There really isn't any point in having all of the EQ's in the + zone. All that does is make everything louder. Instead of +4 +3 +1, having +3 +2 +0 and turning up the volume slightly would have the same effect.

That said, turning up your mids is just plain crazy!

Generally I don't find that my treble is too shrieky, instead sounds nice and crisp (but the occasional record is a little sharp so I turn it down).
The bass sits about 1pm to give the sounds a bit of oomf. The mids have to be turned up quite a bit so that I can hear the tune over all the excessive bass + treble :-)

I've found putting everything at 12'o'clock seems to give quite a flat sound, I personally prefer the "punchier" sound that a lot of top40-style radio stations adopt (ie accentuated bass + treble).

Aurora2.

Ya The extra bass always sounds good. When i play on loud speakers it sounds so much better when i crank the low.

The main live track should be all at 12 or slightly into the + range. If you go to much you'll power out your amp. Either way, the trebble should never be higher than your bass. You must have speaker problems.

And the track you're bringing in should all be in the -, like 10:00 untill you want to make it the main track. Then switch basses so your old main one is now 10:00 and the new main track is at 12:00. Then once the old track is gone bring the new one up + to 1:00 or 2:00 because the bass from the old track is now gone leaving play room.

quote:

Originally posted by aurora2 I personally prefer the "punchier" sound that a lot of top40-style radio stations adopt (ie accentuated bass + treble).

To get this sound it�s not the work of EQ�s but compressors at the end of the radio station.

I personally keep all my EQ's at 12, unless of course I'm mixing, in which case I'll generally adjust the Bass EQ as necessary, rarely ever using the other two EQ�s during the mix.

I think the reason why most people use their EQ�s, all at funny positions, is simply a poorly set up sound system.

I think it depends on your mixer, and also your amplification.

personally, i prefer a smiley face curve as well, bass at about 2 or 3 clock, mids at 0, treble at 2.

BUT! my amp has a wicked 5 band stereo EQ already, so i set THAT with the smiley face EQ.

then, i leave my mixer knobs at 12 all the time, and bring down the bass and treble on songs to about 9 or 10 oclock when bringing in a track.

or sometimes i leave the bass at 12 on both, but hit the kill switch for the bass on the incoming track.

then, at the RIGHT time, i flip off the kill on the bass, and flip on the kill on the other tracks bass.


I'm using a Vestax PCV275 by the way.

it all depends on the track and the energy i'm feeling
sometimes i like to quickly drop the bass then slam in the next track's bass... sounds great especially when it when the bassline hits for the next track

but generally i like to keep my highs at about 2-3, and bass at about 1

i play hard house and the basslines i play are already pretty strong, i also like my highs pretty loud as well

I'm following Spin doctor here. On radio stations and such they use compressors and equalizing at the end of the chain.
Don't forget that most on most tracks a huge amount of time is spent on the mixdown and the mastering. This means that the tune is meant to sound like that with EQ's to default position (12 o' clock) or even bypassed.
The fact that you like the sound better with EQ's boosted everywhere is more a question of equipment. Not only the speaker/amps affect the sound, every other piece of equipment has it's effect (and like always, the weakest link in the chain defines the overall performance).
Just to give an example, when I moved from my first crappy mixer to my Xone, it was a crazy difference. The Xone sounds much more dynamic and punchier.
But the speaker system will probably have the most effect. Don't forget a hifi system speaker will sound completely different from a PA speaker or a studio monitor.
It speaks for itself that if your speakers lacks low response, you'll boost the low frequencies. Keep that in mind.

But hey, it's your equipment, as long as you don't clip, I guess it's ok.

yeah.i keep my lows at around 10 oclock,but im playin through a gigatube stereo, any higher and the rattlin gets to me. i turn up the highs and mids to around 1 and 2.

On top of this, most good club systems will have racks and racks of graphic equalisers etc so they can specifically set up the sound system tailored to the environment of the club. It�s actually quite bewildering as to the range and extent of equipment that some clubs have in their set-up between the DJ and the audience.

I know, but in most clubs it's just a shame how bad they use all this gear. Except some clubs, the sound isn't really that great. Most clubs prefer to emphasize the low frequencies a lot, resulting the sound to drown in bass. But hey, they think that's why the crowd is coming for.

OK cool, these are all good and interesting suggestions/comments. I'm learning a lot here.

My mixer is a Numark 3channel DM3002X, don't know if this is supposed to be a good mixer or whether it is dodgy. Either way, I have the output going to a component amp and then to some rather large speakers.
I have also run the mixer into my computer and I am happily able to record keeping the levels just under 0db. I'm going to play around with the "line" outputs on the back of the mixer too, as someone said that this would probably give better quality..????
I've cut a few CD's of mixes and played them in my car (with approx 7 speaker setup + subs) and it doesn't over-drive the system, which must be a good thing...????

I will try the suggestions above...... :-) We'll see how it goes.

Keep the comments coming.. is the general consensus that you would put the incoming track's bass at approx 10am, bring slider to middle, crossfade bass to 2pm-ish at end of phase?

Cheers for all the help!!
Aurora2

There is no consensus about EQ use. It all depends on your own style and the tracks you are mixing. Each mix needs another twiddling.

Also I see most actual dj's think tweaking the EQ's is absolutely necessary. That's not the case. I would even be so crazy to claim that in fact you should be able to perform a good blend of tracks without even touching the EQ's (keep in mind guys like Carl Cox started of with mixers without EQ's). Look at the EQ's as a tool to either do tricks, or either make a smooth mix even smoother. Don't use EQ's as a cover for every mix, just because it's "a consensus" to use the knobs.

quote:

Originally posted by aurora2 I've cut a few CD's of mixes and played them in my car (with approx 7 speaker setup + subs) and it doesn't over-drive the system, which must be a good thing...????

if you haven't over driven ( aka saturated ) your system , then clap clap, that's already proof you're on a good track , but the second point ; you might not be achieving the maximum output your music could give , let me explain a little bit of "theorical" crap :

if you record something at let's say -4db well it won't sound the same at different volumes, cause some parts will be "faded" out due to the non linearity of the sound.

Solution : normalisation my man, easy,convenient, and must do thing will record audio or mastering tracks you've produced yourself.
Normalisation brings the sound to 0db hence the sound will be the same at any volume.
you can, and should, normalize your stuff with apps like soundforge wavelab, it's easy and you'll probably even notice a drastic improvment!

I don't get all this talk about eq ?

all djs use their eqs extensively and they should, unfortunately with the way you're talking about equeing is as if the only thing djs have to do was beatmatch have a decent eq and that's it, NO NO NO.

When you mix, first off change the eq constantly, for literally every track, be a maniac! One track to another has specific highs and lows that can only be compensated and enhanced with personnalized equeing
Second make the sound sweep! Equeing like a mad man is the key to a killer set!
Third , don't over eq, it can get annoying, and can cause saturation , oh and don't use it as a means to amplify your sound, which it will obviously do , but try leaving that task to the faders and crossfader.


Lastly learn to listen to the music with flat eqs, it can be a pleasure without you "polluting" a track on which thousands were spent on the producing and the mastering; tracks were made to sound one way without you distorting them.... and seize the importance of equeuing by seeing were it's really neeeded( audio system correction for example, but that's not your main goal , the overall system should be corrected with a dedicated eq, it might cost you some that you don't want to spend, be a pain for beginners to understand how to run and configure for each new hall, but it's a key component ( like mentionned earlier in the thread )


conclusion , the eq is for : enhancement, creation, and correction. To you the task of finding the middle key between all these points.



gotta love my sound engineering classes I've taken

I may ha have the bass plus 2 o clock if the bass is weak on that record but other then that everything is a @ 12 o clock...

What I have been hearing mostly is all intresting.. but i agree with the fact that using the eq should be just considered as a tool for enhancement. There is no "right way" to dj.. it can be considered an art in a way.. use the tracks EQ to create a work, the work is the best way you feel it fit to represent the music you love /respect and or produce.

IMO

when i play my tracks i like to get the mids and treble really sounding in teh track. but depending on teh track it varies on to what i wish to accomplish in my set

usually i set my treble to around 3 ocklock, mid 2 ocklock and base to around 11:30 12:00... WAIT did someone say lunch time? lol

anyways so yeah also keep in mind what DamnDirtyApe said..

quote:

Originally posted by DamnDirtyApe There really isn't any point in having all of the EQ's in the + zone. All that does is make everything louder. Instead of +4 +3 +1, having +3 +2 +0 and turning up the volume slightly would have the same effect. That said, turning up your mids is just plain crazy!

so basically these are just fine adjusting nobs. if you want more leniacy keep your levels low but in porportion to the output you want to give.. always leave some slack so you can really crank it when you need to as well!!

Ive been only djaying for 3 months now and those who know alot just try and dumb it down with more tehical than theory.. cause that helps out. you gotta know what the machine does before you can take it to full power

"SPIN OUT!!!!!!" (junkfood junkies )

-Nrg2Nfinit

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit so basically these are just fine adjusting nobs. if you want more leniacy keep your levels low but in porportion to the output you want to give.. always leave some slack so you can really crank it when you need to as well!! "SPIN OUT!!!!!!" (junkfood junkies ) -Nrg2Nfinit

no offense, and I know that trance djs in general are more conscious , but I've always had the feeling DJs are the worst sound engineers ( it's all about the volume not the quality ! for a lot of them at least )

I see things that way cause I've been doing sound engineering ( mostly live bands etc ) for years and I know my stuff pretty well and when I see crappy djs trying to mix and saturating everything that pisses me off.

But don't worry that rarely applies to trance djs , you're all smarter then the stupid secular saturday night crappy commercial djs .....

so jdat, you say that volume amplifies the sound curve?

in that case do you suggest keeping the eq levels fairly high?

im sorry i dont get it

-Nrg2Nfinit

quote:

Originally posted by jdat no offense, and I know that trance djs in general are more conscious , but I've always had the feeling DJs are the worst sound engineers ( it's all about the volume not the quality ! for a lot of them at least ) I see things that way cause I've been doing sound engineering ( mostly live bands etc ) for years and I know my stuff pretty well and when I see crappy djs trying to mix and saturating everything that pisses me off.

Gotta agree on that one. How many times have I seen dj's pushing the mixer in the red zone (I've even seen one where the leds didn't even blink anymore) just thinking it will make it louder and more dynamic.

Studying for sound engineer also, and gotta admit it's only then you only start to listen to achieve maximum quality (stay near 0dB guys). Trance dj's are pretty careful about that, but I gotta say D&B dj's are even more. They can't really afford to saturate their sound with their kinda music.

One comment on normalisation though. The most important is the recording. If you set your recording levels well you don't need normalisation. If you recorded your set at low levels, normalisation will also boost the noise.
Besides there are two types of normalisation : peak and sustained. The names speak for themselves.

Believe me, starting with a good recording is essential. The less fiddling you have to do to make it sound good, the better.

Sweet, all this feedback is great!!

Regarding normalisation, if recording a mix to PC I will check that none of my tracks peak over 0db. This means that peaks in any of my waveforms are just about hitting 0db but not clipping.
Hopefully this is giving a decent quality recording. Certainally have no complaints when playing my CD's.. they sound pretty good.

I have adjusted my EQ's now, though at 12/12/12 it does sound a little flat, so I have it set to about 3pm treble, 1pm mid, 1pm bass... which sounds sweet.
I agree it's definitly better to EQ the sound out at the end of the line before it goes to air, as if you overdrive it from the mixer then there will be a distorted signal to work with later down the line.

Does it make a difference what type of music you are mixing as to how you'd twiddle the eq's to get a smooth mix? Ie with house are we looking to blend the basslines together and then gradually crossfade treble, or with hard house slam bass in etc?? I know there is no hard-and-fast rule about these things, as every dj style is different, as is every track.

The thing I found with my one of my earlier house mix CDs is that you can hear when I move the crossfader to the middle, as it has probably too much signal coming from both tracks = overdrive. This is where I was asking about a technique to twiddle eq's to keep the mix a bit smoother...

Keep it coming !! :-)
Aurora2

quote:

Originally posted by aurora2 Does it make a difference what type of music you are mixing as to how you'd twiddle the eq's to get a smooth mix?

in theory you EQ to make ajust the bands and make the sound flat.

while mixing you want to push what needs to sound more out there, so it's all a question of personnal preference, but use you're mind and it wouldn't hurt to go in a book store and look for the Yamaha sound reinforcement manual and read it ( nah I'm not suggesting to buy the book I know you won't ).... it's a theory till you die type of book but go to the EQueing section and you'll have more questions answered then you'd ever think about ( take notes ! )

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