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Any good book on EQ out there?

I was well dissapointed with the last book I bought blind - Rick Snomans Dance Music Manual. It was sh1te, in fact worst than that!

I need something that really gets deeps into EQ as for me personaly this is the area I find the most challenging.

I use my ears and have the best monitoring room I can achieve and depsite somthing like 20 hours per week in producing and an obsessive nature, I find the bass end in particular a challenge.

I know the basics - shaving off under 50hz (some say 30, some even 20)and how do set the kik and bass at differing peack freqs, side chaining and all the other tricks, but still I struggle.

I also get the point about chosing the right sounds to begin with.

My mixes sound fine on my monitors or headphones but not so in my ca whereas pro mixes do.

There must be something the pros are doing that is fundamentaly different to me when it come to bass. For example scooping out certain freqs.

Forum folk usualy say this;

High pass everything 50
Chose a kick that peaks about 90 / 100 / 80
Choose a bass that peaks around 65-70
Some reverse these (kik 60 / bass at 100)
Remove some boxy freqs - which I think I do - around 120 - 200 but have tried many other variants around this freq band
side chain
velocity automate
compress

So I'm lost really and wonder if a book on EQ might be a help

basslins a hard for me to manly cos my speakers are crap but ive found that layering is the way to go. chexk out airbase on youtube he does some good tutorials on this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siKk...D58B08F&index=5

sorry no books

you won't get around posting a track of yours so we might analyze it

Re: Any good book on EQ out there?

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler I was well dissapointed with the last book I bought blind - Rick Snomans Dance Music Manual. It was sh1te, in fact worst than that! I need something that really gets deeps into EQ as for me personaly this is the area I find the most challenging. I use my ears and have the best monitoring room I can achieve and depsite somthing like 20 hours per week in producing and an obsessive nature, I find the bass end in particular a challenge. I know the basics - shaving off under 50hz (some say 30, some even 20)and how do set the kik and bass at differing peack freqs, side chaining and all the other tricks, but still I struggle. I also get the point about chosing the right sounds to begin with. My mixes sound fine on my monitors or headphones but not so in my ca whereas pro mixes do. There must be something the pros are doing that is fundamentaly different to me when it come to bass. For example scooping out certain freqs. Forum folk usualy say this; High pass everything 50 Chose a kick that peaks about 90 / 100 / 80 Choose a bass that peaks around 65-70 Some reverse these (kik 60 / bass at 100) Remove some boxy freqs - which I think I do - around 120 - 200 but have tried many other variants around this freq band side chain velocity automate compress So I'm lost really and wonder if a book on EQ might be a help

Judging from your post im not sure a book on EQ will help you that much
If you choose the right kick to go with the right bassline, you wont really need much eq apart from the obvious high-passing
Some will say that HP filters are too extreme and instead will notch out freqs in the bass (or the kick) - experiment and see what works for you

One thing ive learnt, particularly from listening to my tracks in my car, versus pro tracks, is that sub-bass can be your enemy
Add to that, long ringing kicks i.e. too much of a sub-tail on your kick - volume envelope is key here

If your using a big subby kick, no point in using a subby bass, the 2 will just end up in a big subby mess

Any samples of your tracks we can listen to?

Ok here's a sample as requested. Note I really like the bass sound I'm using hear and I don't want to layer it more as I like the way it sits unconflicting with the leads etc, but just the EQ of the bass / kick is whats driving me to drink!

Just hit play near the centre of screen.

01 Track 1.mp3 - 6.82MB

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler Ok here's a sample as requested. Note I really like the bass sound I'm using hear and I don't want to layer it more as I like the way it sits unconflicting with the leads etc, but just the EQ of the bass / kick is whats driving me to drink! Just hit play near the centre of screen. 01 Track 1.mp3 - 6.82MB

I'd say the problem there is the kick (and the fact that the hats are WAY too loud).

You'll want a low end and a transient (click) to the kick so try layering two together.

The kick in the clip has neither I don't think.

quote:

Originally posted by tehlord I'd say the problem there is the kick (and the fact that the hats are WAY too loud). You'll want a low end and a transient (click) to the kick so try layering two together. The kick in the clip has neither I don't think.

I've got 3 layered there believe it or not!
I had more low end and it conflicted with the bass line a high volume in my car (again this does not happen with decent pro tracks in my car).

Anyway keep the comments comming.

loose the animal sounds.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler I've got 3 layered there believe it or not! I had more low end and it conflicted with the bass line a high volume in my car (again this does not happen with decent pro tracks in my car). Anyway keep the comments comming.

Really?!

Sounds like a single kick, although I did listen on some media speakers.

If you've got plenty of sub bass going on you might not even need much low end in a kick but a sneaky, narrow boost around 50hz can help too.

If you read that you should never boost ignore it imo

Richard, I think the "rules" which can be useful as a guideline, are in this case are leading you astray.

I high pass anything that isn't a low component, in a lot of cases to 250hz and higher if that sound does not do anything for the low end. Many sounds just have unnecessary harmonics that create a muddy mix so it's better to remove them.

Also, I think that 80hz for a peak of a kick is low by my experience - I do the sharpest rollof (48db) I can to bass frequency sounds (except for sounds that are purposely subs) around 50-70hz - you still get some of the lower frequencies but it tightens it up a lot.

The easiest way to learn to cut is just to sweep the hipass until something disappears from the sound, then playing with that boundary eventually teaches you where you should cut iff.

The do this with sounds that overlap in in terms of frequencies and decide where some are to finish and some are to start.

You also need to realise that in modern EDM a lot of the "bass" sounds are (in the traditional engineering sense) more like low mids - a lot of EDM has basslines that are often above 120 and going far higher than that, and are not true "bass" frequencies.

Finally, what speakers are you using?

I can hear a lot of DC Offset especially in the breakdown.

not exactly eq related but if you haven't read this i say its mandatory your mixes will improve quite a bit after reading this book

http://www.amazon.com/Art-Mixing-Mi...o/dp/0918371171

The Mixing Engineer's Handbook - invaluable resource for any producer IMO. It has a whole chapter on EQing.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler I've got 3 layered there believe it or not! I had more low end and it conflicted with the bass line a high volume in my car (again this does not happen with decent pro tracks in my car). Anyway keep the comments comming.

It sounds weak. Grab something from VEC3 and just drop it in. It doesn't sound very trancey to me. The lowmids for the bass seem to be lacking especially on the lower notes. Sounds like you might have high cut the bass, you might want to try a bell or a high shelf so that it still has some minor presence. You could try RBass to boost it's perception.

Just listening on headphones but the kick doesnt seem heavy enough to my ears
Its midrange could be softened a bit, but it doesnt have enough low end i dont think
The bassline itself sounds fine imo, could maybe do with a touch more lowend but its hard to tell what a difference a new kick could make....

I notice youve got a lot of stuff coming in at the breakdown, do those elements stay in for the rest of the track?
Reason i ask is they seem to have a lot of stuff that could interfere with the kick/bass unless they are highpassed a bit more - you could automate an eq so you can still hear them nicely in the break, but then they wont interfere when it comes back in...

Have your track playing in its busiest section, then (without looking at the EQ curve if you can avoid it) slowly sweep your highpass filter upwards on whatever track and listen
When you start to hear a change - stop - then maybe roll it back a little bit
Do this for everything and you can always automate your EQs back down when the kick and bass arent playing

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux You could try RBass to boost it's perception.

Do you know he has this plugin? Waves plugins are pretty expensive.

quote:

Originally posted by derail Do you know he has this plugin? Waves plugins are pretty expensive.

MaxxBass is 130.

Buy the book "Mixing with your mind"

You wont regret it...

The best bit of advice I could give you is that if you choose / produce sounds that work extremely well together to begin with you will not need to depend on EQ half as much. Instead of shaping sounds with EQ, I will usually shape them at the sound source. The same goes for live recording. instead of fixing things with EQ, just move the microphone position or change the mic.

The only time I really use EQ is to either remove unwanted low-end frequencies or to add character to a sound using a nice outboard EQ.

Wow, thanks for all the advice everyone, very interesting.

I think I'll try VEG3 for kicks, as I get fed up fiddling with my own kiks and layering, then burning to cd only to find in my car or other consumer systems the kick is wrong.

This process I have done literally hundreds, if not thousands of times - there's no way airbase (thanks for the video link) has to hop in and out of his car everyday, after having exported a track and burnt to cd!

I high pass every sound. In the break where there is less bass and no kick I automate the lower freqs of other sounds back in until the chorus where I re-fade the lower freqs away so as the bass and kick are'nt compromised.

Thanks for the book recs - but I'm under no illusion a book will really resolve my empass.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler I think I'll try VEG3 for kicks, as I get fed up fiddling with my own kiks and layering, then burning to cd only to find in my car or other consumer systems the kick is wrong.

I think this implies that you need to learn your monitors better. Ideally you would get to a stage where you trust your monitors and know that when a mix works on them it will translate well on a variety of mediums.

Just to add to the Topic started. I usually have my Plucks/ Stabs sit around 2hz to 5hz. really good results in my mix downs.

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux MaxxBass is 130.

But you didn't recommend MaxxBass, you recommended RBass. As far as I can see, the cheapest bundle you can get that in is the Renaissance bundle which is currently priced at $429 (that seems to be with a 35% discount taken off, so normally it's more expensive).

Regarding the OP, it's as Wave Alchemy is saying - start at the initial sounds, find sounds that fit together well, set appropriate levels and get to know your listening setup so you'll know how it translates to other playback systems such as your car.

I realise it may not sound very helpful, if you're at a stage where you're feeling frustrated and you're looking for some "killer tip" which you've somehow missed, and which will suddenly give your productions a massive boost. "Choose sounds which fit well together and set appropriate levels" sounds very trite, and obvious, and you probably read that and think "gee thanks, big help".

It sounds very easy, but it takes many years of mixing to train your ears to a degree where your mixes sound great without EQ, reverb or other effects. (Obviously, then you add EQ processing, reverb, delays and so on and the great mix sounds even better).

If your kick consistently sounds wrong, spend a few weeks just putting together a kick, a simple bassline and maybe some other drum sounds. Put together 40 or 50 sets of sounds, export the loops as audio and burn it to a CD, listen to the CD in your car and make notes as to which ones sound better, which ones sound worse, and what it is that makes them sound better or worse - maybe in one the bass is too boomy, another the kick has too long a tail, another the kick doesn't have enough weight. Guaranteed there will be several among the 50 which sound significantly better than others, which will give you a new frame of reference as to where to start, in terms of building the foundation of your next few songs.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler Wow, thanks for all the advice everyone, very interesting. I think I'll try VEG3 for kicks, as I get fed up fiddling with my own kiks and layering, then burning to cd only to find in my car or other consumer systems the kick is wrong. This process I have done literally hundreds, if not thousands of times - there's no way airbase (thanks for the video link) has to hop in and out of his car everyday, after having exported a track and burnt to cd! I high pass every sound. In the break where there is less bass and no kick I automate the lower freqs of other sounds back in until the chorus where I re-fade the lower freqs away so as the bass and kick are'nt compromised. Thanks for the book recs - but I'm under no illusion a book will really resolve my empass.

If your kick sounds good when at your PC, but crap in your car, then your problem is your monitoring situation

What monitors are your running?
Do you have any room treatment?

quote:

Originally posted by Wave Alchemy The best bit of advice I could give you is that if you choose / produce sounds that work extremely well together to begin with you will not need to depend on EQ half as much. Instead of shaping sounds with EQ, I will usually shape them at the sound source. The same goes for live recording. instead of fixing things with EQ, just move the microphone position or change the mic. The only time I really use EQ is to either remove unwanted low-end frequencies or to add character to a sound using a nice outboard EQ.

This.

You shouldn't really need to EQ at all to get stuff to sit right. Usually high and low passing can help stuff gel a bit better, but its not completely neccesary. If your kick/bass is sounding bad on your car system, this probably has more to do with monitoring and sound selection, as well as inexperience.

Don't look at rules you read on forums. There are no correct settings for every application. Different genres have elements that sit in different places, an anjunabeats trance kick/bass will sound different to a prog trance kick/bass combo from 1997. They'll need different approaches to EQ.

Basically, you're looking to carve each sound a certain amount of space in the EQ spectrum. Sometimes that means that kicks sit about the bass, sometimes it means that the bass sits above the kick. It depends on the track. Equally, you need to be careful about carving too much space in a mix, or the elements sound too seperated.

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