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Master out?

If a label accepts your track and requested you to remove the mastering so you have a flat mix so they can master it, does your mix sound poor once you remove those master output channel devices, and do you have to work at it to bring it up to an acceptable level?

All i have on my master out is low cut EQ and a little tape distortion, as I want to avoid losing the dynamics with limiters/compression and anything else to excite the sound. I just do all that on the individual tracks

I'm still working at getting it how I want it to sound, which is good right now. But I'm also thinking if it sounds great with a bunch of devices on my master out as well then I should just use it.

I've read on other threads many people have all kinds of mastering channel strips templates, but could some of you give me your opinions on this. Preferably if you have releases under your belt or experience to give me some advice.

I'm torn between leaving the master out free or not.


Cheers

Re: Master out?

quote:

Originally posted by music2dance2 If a label accepts your track and requested you to remove the mastering so you have a flat mix so they can master it, does your mix sound poor once you remove those master output channel devices, and do you have to work at it to bring it up to an acceptable level?

If your track sounds poor after removing plugins on the master out then the track is not mixed well enough. You should go back and fix the mix.

quote:

Originally posted by music2dance2 I'm still working at getting it how I want it to sound, which is good right now. But I'm also thinking if it sounds great with a bunch of devices on my master out as well then I should just use it.

Not if the label in question plans to have it mastered separately. If they want to do this, take everything off he master and send them that version.

quote:

Originally posted by music2dance2 I've read on other threads many people have all kinds of mastering channel strips templates, but could some of you give me your opinions on this. Preferably if you have releases under your belt or experience to give me some advice.

I and many others do this because we generally have no reasonable expectation that it will be mastered elsewhere. If any label wants to do their own mastering it is a simple matter to remove any mastering chain plugins and the only thing that should be lost is a bit of level (3-5 dB) and a tiny bit of sheen. There should not be a dramatic change in how your track sounds.

Thanks for the good info dude. I assumed most labels would master any tracks they accept on their label. I take it this isnt the case?

quote:

Originally posted by music2dance2 Thanks for the good info dude. I assumed most labels would master any tracks they accept on their label. I take it this isnt the case?

No not at all, in fact, most digital labels expect a finished product, so you'll either need to master it yourself or pay someone else to do it. Really, the mixing is what is important. Don't mistake good mixing, arrangement, sound design and composition for good mastering. As I said above, mastering should only be about raising the level a bit and adding a tiny bit of sheen. If its doing anything more than that, the mix needs to be fixed.

quote:

Originally posted by Eric J No not at all, in fact, most digital labels expect a finished product, so you'll either need to master it yourself or pay someone else to do it. Really, the mixing is what is important. Don't mistake good mixing, arrangement, sound design and composition for good mastering. As I said above, mastering should only be about raising the level a bit and adding a tiny bit of sheen. If its doing anything more than that, the mix needs to be fixed.

Ok thanks for enlightening me on the label stuff.

Totally agree on the mixing/mastering stuff. Its part of why I hadnt been using anything on my master out to force me to create a great sounds mix before any kind of mastering is done. So any default mastering I turn off if it loads when start a new track.

Many thanks dude will experiment and see how things work out.

i myself would like to hear my tracks mastered by the pros, i generely stick by the said rules and then stick a limiter on the track and it sounds better louder and im happy with that for now

quote:

Originally posted by chrisspob i myself would like to hear my tracks mastered by the pros

If your track is well mixed, you wont really notice a big difference.

careful! most mastering engineers will tell you to take off dynamic/surgical EQ things on your master BUT if you have creative FX on the master to leave them if you're happy with the result (your tape compression/distortion is a perfect example). Usually in a circumstance like this i'll bounce without the tape and with and ask both get mastered and make a decision after. Mastering engineers get paid a lot of money for 30min of work. It won't take him more than 5-10min to do 2 vers.

I use to put vintage warmer on mine and now i don't put anything but if you're coloring your sound on PURPOSE then leave it

quote:

Originally posted by Eric J If your track is well mixed, you wont really notice a big difference.

maybe i think my tracks sound great, but will they sound better if they are pro mastered?

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0729 careful! most mastering engineers will tell you to take off dynamic/surgical EQ things on your master BUT if you have creative FX on the master to leave them if you're happy with the result (your tape compression/distortion is a perfect example). Usually in a circumstance like this i'll bounce without the tape and with and ask both get mastered and make a decision after. Mastering engineers get paid a lot of money for 30min of work. It won't take him more than 5-10min to do 2 vers. I use to put vintage warmer on mine and now i don't put anything but if you're coloring your sound on PURPOSE then leave it

Thanks for the advice dude. So at present your master out has nothing on it whats so ever right now?

obviously i cannot do mastering, i will give anybody my track to do a better job than i can do ! if it sounds better then i will u use for all my next tracks and pay you

quote:

Originally posted by chrisspob maybe i think my tracks sound great, but will they sound better if they are pro mastered?

I think you may be missing the point here. Mastering is not what makes tracks sound great. Proper composition, sound selection/design, arrangement and mixing is what makes tracks sound great. Mastering's primary benefits are mostly about getting a 3rd party perspective on your music and squeezing every last ounce of headroom out of your track (especially in the modern era).

If you want your music to sound better than you need to work at composition, arrangement, sound selection and mixing. These are the things that make tracks great. If you think someone else has the skill to make your music sound better than you can make it, you'd be better served hiring a mix engineer, sound designer and/or composer, because any or all of these people are going to have a much larger impact on the final output of your product than any mastering engineer.

Mastering engineers are important to be sure, but far too often they are credited with being able to make OK tracks sound great, and that is simply not the case. No amount of mastering is going to do that. You have all the power you need to make great sounding tracks, its just a matter of time, patience and experience.

quote:

Originally posted by Eric J I think you may be missing the point here. Mastering is not what makes tracks sound great. Proper composition, sound selection/design, arrangement and mixing is what makes tracks sound great. Mastering's primary benefits are mostly about getting a 3rd party perspective on your music and squeezing every last ounce of headroom out of your track (especially in the modern era). If you want your music to sound better than you need to work at composition, arrangement, sound selection and mixing. These are the things that make tracks great. If you think someone else has the skill to make your music sound better than you can make it, you'd be better served hiring a mix engineer, sound designer and/or composer, because any or all of these people are going to have a much larger impact on the final output of your product than any mastering engineer. Mastering engineers are important to be sure, but far too often they are credited with being able to make OK tracks sound great, and that is simply not the case. No amount of mastering is going to do that. You have all the power you need to make great sounding tracks, its just a matter of time, patience and experience.

you sound like a teacher thatsa complimnentand im drunk pal

my music is where i want it be right now, hope you all feel that way

quote:

Originally posted by chrisspob you sound like a teacher thatsa complimnentand im drunk pal

Lol I did wonder while reading your posts.

This thread has a link to the interview and he's pretty much saying what I waS thinking about stuff on the master out and what Zombie0729 seems to also do. It seems I'll keep doing what I'm doing for now and keep my master out free as possible and work on the individual tracks as much as possible.

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...8&forumid=48&s=

quote:

I will say, for me personally, I think the answer lies in a dry master bus and a shitload of sub-groups. I used to just throw a bunch of mastering plug-ins and multi-band compressors on the master bus and tweak the presets and hope for the best, without really doing any sub-groups. (Actually, every record I put out in 2004 had a mild chorus effect on the master bus for stereo widening! I went a bit nuts there for a while.) I was basically using these tools as a fix for the whole mix, when I should have been working on very small sections of it individually. It worked okay for what I was doing at the time, but my standards are higher now and I really want to do everything professionally and properly.

If you know a bit about mastering and the label says they are going to find a studio to master it, it might be a good idea to send over your mastered version and an unmastered version so the studio engineer gets an idea of the sound you're looking for and can use that as a rough idea when doing their stuff.

I hope my point isnt lost here. I'm not looking for my tracks to be mastered. My query was whether to keep on producing without using dynamic devices on the master out or just use them if it sounds good.

I basically want to avoid squashing the signal and improve my mixing skills essentially, until I feel happy to use anything on the master output.

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