TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Production Studio
-- Lowering the master volume
Pages (3): [1] 2 3 »

Lowering the master volume

If your track goes over 0db, is it safe to lower the volume of the master, instead of each individual track on the mixer.

In my experience with cubase, if you have the master bus slider lower than 0db you will end up with a 'quiet' file at export, that can be messy to boost back up to normal levels depending on how much you reduced the slider.

Not sure if it works the same way in other apps, but yeah with cubase i think it is better to leave your master at 0db and adjust the individual channels (which you can link and do all at once to retain the relative differences).

If your output is only slightly peaking above 0db you could try using a limiter on very relaxed settings so as not to alter the dynamics much but just prevent some clipping.

True true, but I'm blasting over 2+ db. Just thought instead of lowering each channel, I could just lower the master.

quote:

Originally posted by sako487 True true, but I'm blasting over 2+ db. Just thought instead of lowering each channel, I could just lower the master.

what most people do is put a limiter on the master set to -0.1 then when they're ready to master the track, they take the limiter off, drop the slider so there's 5-10db of headroom, bounce as a 24bit then bring that file back in to master.

by the end of my records my limiter gets pushed 2-4db but i'm use to mixing with it like that so it works for me.

I always thought to never mix down on a limiter, I'll try that next time.

quote:

Originally posted by Osmodiar In my experience with cubase, if you have the master bus slider lower than 0db you will end up with a 'quiet' file at export,

This is nonsense. You use the master fader like any other you can have your master slider at -6 and your mix will still be hitting 0db due to the cumulative gain structure.

quote:

Originally posted by sako487 I always thought to never mix down on a limiter, I'll try that next time.

This is generally good advice for people starting out because it forces them to learn to watch their headroom when mixing. However, once you know what you are doing you can mix into a master chain and it sounds just fine.

cubase gives ou 6db headroom so its not too bad to go over "0 db" once in a while

quote:

Originally posted by gr8ape cubase gives ou 6db headroom so its not too bad to go over "0 db" once in a while

Nope dont tell him that, its not ok to clip on any digital system. So what your saying is that in cubase 0db actually means -6db which is not the case. If you mix something to -0.1 db in cubase then put it into any other wave editing program it will be at 0.1 not -5.9

quote:

Originally posted by Sonic_c This is nonsense. You use the master fader like any other you can have your master slider at -6 and your mix will still be hitting 0db due to the cumulative gain structure.

In the past when i have set the cubase (SX3 back then) master output into the negative, the resulting file has been too quiet and i've had to run processing over it to bring the levels back up, which can mess up the transients in your tune.

I got advice on this problem from others a couple of years ago and ever since then i have left the master slider between 0 and -2 at the least, and my exported files have always had good levels since then. It solved my problem, and i thought that information might help the OP.

So i don't think it's nonsense personally, i'm talking directly from experience i've had with the same problem and describing how i solved it.

quote:

Originally posted by Osmodiar In the past when i have set the cubase (SX3 back then) master output into the negative, the resulting file has been too quiet and i've had to run processing over it to bring the levels back up, which can mess up the transients in your tune. I got advice on this problem from others a couple of years ago and ever since then i have left the master slider between 0 and -2 at the least, and my exported files have always had good levels since then. It solved my problem, and i thought that information might help the OP. So i don't think it's nonsense personally, i'm talking directly from experience i've had with the same problem and describing how i solved it.

Its 4am here so if i get this wrong forgive me. The master fader doesnt determine the level of the mixdown. For example if you have a kick playing at 0db the master fader will show the same 0db. Add a bassline at 0db and your master level is now well into to red yes? So you trim the master down to say -3db so your master 'level' is back peaking at 0db you then mix that down are you trying to say that the resulting mixdown will be too quiet?

Its wrong it will come out at whatever level the cumulative gain is at not what the master fader is set to. You agree?

I'm not saying it will, i'm just saying in my experience with cubase that it was.. except that it was more extreme than your example, i had all my tracks running hot, not clipping themselves but by the end of a tune my master slider was way down to keep the final output from clipping. Then yes, even tho the output levels were high when played back within cubase, the exported file was really quiet and needed heaps of boosting.

I asked about this and the advice i got was to cool off my individual tracks and try to leave the master slider as close to 0db as possible, in practice i keep it above -3 as a rule and all my output files are sweet now..

quote:

Originally posted by Osmodiar I'm not saying it will, i'm just saying in my experience with cubase that it was.. except that it was more extreme than your example, i had all my tracks running hot, not clipping themselves but by the end of a tune my master slider was way down to keep the final output from clipping. Then yes, even tho the output levels were high when played back within cubase, the exported file was really quiet and needed heaps of boosting. I asked about this and the advice i got was to cool off my individual tracks and try to leave the master slider as close to 0db as possible, in practice i keep it above -3 as a rule and all my output files are sweet now..

All i'm saying is the level of your final mixdown is determined by the cumulative volume of all the tracks fed into the master. So if the master is low but the overall volume is ok your final file will be loud enough. Even if the master was well low but the volume is fine the fact the master is low wont make your mix quiet.

Just put the slider down to about -7 db for some 3 db headroom, sounds perfectly fine to me, like my original mix just quieter.

The volume on a non clipping export depends on how huge your peaking transients are.

If you have big peaks the export volume will be lower, if you have no peaks it will be louder.

Changing the volume on individual channels or the master channel doesnt make any difference at all.

quote:

Originally posted by Sonic_c Nope dont tell him that, its not ok to clip on any digital system. So what your saying is that in cubase 0db actually means -6db which is not the case. If you mix something to -0.1 db in cubase then put it into any other wave editing program it will be at 0.1 not -5.9

at the mixdown it adds 6db, so just reduce the master volume of your highest peak minus 0.1 or something for the mixdown.

but during editing 0 is -6

you know what I mean :P

quote:

Originally posted by gr8ape at the mixdown it adds 6db, so just reduce the master volume of your highest peak minus 0.1 or something for the mixdown. but during editing 0 is -6 you know what I mean :P

Nono, try importing a track which is already at 0db and you will see the master channel will also be at the same.

quote:

Originally posted by gr8ape at the mixdown it adds 6db, but during editing 0 is -6

I have never heard this in my life? this cant be true.

quote:

Originally posted by Sonic_c I have never heard this in my life? this cant be true.

You wont hear clipping when editing if the master goes over 0db cause cubase has 6 db headroom. it warns you though (little red square)

but if you audio export with a red square, its bad news cause youll be actually clipping


IN THE END

you dont want to go over 0db when you export your mix thats for sure

quote:

Originally posted by gr8ape You wont hear clipping when editing if the master goes over 0db cause cubase has 6 db headroom. it warns you though (little red square) but if you audio export with a red square, its bad news cause youll be actually clipping IN THE END you dont want to go over 0db when you export your mix thats for sure

Lol dude what you said was its ok to go over 0 now and again and that cubase boosts the mix by 6 in the mixdown. Which is not true. All programs and desks have some room after 0 that doesn't mean they built in headroom it just means its over 0. Lol and yes i'm aware of the little red square just about =p

If it wasn't ok to use the master volume there wouldn't be one would there!

Osmodior. What the hell are you on about?

quote:

Originally posted by Sonic_c Lol dude what you said was its ok to go over 0 now and again and that cubase boosts the mix by 6 in the mixdown. Which is not true. All programs and desks have some room after 0 that doesn't mean they built in headroom it just means its over 0. Lol and yes i'm aware of the little red square just about =p

im pretty sure there is 6db built in headroom with cubase

take a sound that reaches 0db, listen to it in cubase, then export it and listen to it with foobar or wtv. im pretty sure its going to be louder in foobar

anyways im terrible at explaining lol

The level shown on the master channel in Cubase is the same level it'll be if you export the song and put it on a CD, or load it into an audio editor like soundforge or wavelab.

If you put a limiter on the master with an output of -0.1 dB, that's what the output level is. There's no difference in the output level between listening to your song and exporting a mixdown.

I have no idea where the thought that there's a 6 dB difference came from. It's very easy for anyone using Cubase to try this out themselves and see that this information is false.

i may be telling a bunch of nonsense but ill test at home to be sure

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.