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-- What's the difference between Downtempo & Trip-Hop?

What's the difference between Downtempo & Trip-Hop?

I've been organizing my music lately and I've come across music very similar to one another. When I look up the genre they would be included in, some are include in Trip-hop, some in Downtempo and some in both. Can anyone help me distinguish between the two?

For example, why would

Theivery Corporation be considered Trip-Hop (lets says their Richest Man In Babylon CD) and the Urbs - Toujours Le Film... be considered downtempo?

Would it be appropriate to categorize them as the same thing?

Thanks for any help you guys can give me,

Mike

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but trip hop was a term coined for the UK scene in the mid-90s with groups like Tricky, Portishead, Amon Tobin etc... it started off as a blend of hip hop and electronica, but evolved like all music. In essense, trip hop is downtempo.

If I was you, I'd categorize it all as downtempo.

Chill out.

tricky is awesome.

quote:

Originally posted by corjay9 Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but trip hop was a term coined for the UK scene in the mid-90s with groups like Tricky, Portishead, Amon Tobin etc... it started off as a blend of hip hop and electronica, but evolved like all music. In essense, trip hop is downtempo. If I was you, I'd categorize it all as downtempo.

your correct on the history behind it. Do you think I should still categorize groups like Tricky, Portishead, Massive Attack under the same genre. I mean if you listen to them and then you listen to a group like Pretty Lights, you can tell there is a distinct difference.

Pandora kind of explains the difference:

They say that "Downtempo is an all-inclusive term for laid-back electronic music that falls between electronic dance music (house, trance, techno) and ambient music (Brian Eno, Steve Roach, etc.). Like electronic dance music, downtempo has a definite beat and structure. However, it is slower, and is more likely to use dub-like hypnotic effects a la ambient music."

They say that "Trip-hop in its broadest scope is any type of electronic music with enhanced texture over beats from rap music. Trip-hop was developed in England in the 1990s, and gained popularity through artists like Portishead, Massive Attack, and Tricky.

Musicologically, trip-hop is characterized by the heavy use of samples and breakbeats, mellow tempo (85-110 bpm), minor key tonality, swung 16th notes, and heavy emphasis on sung vocals. "Trip-hop roots" refers to music that utilizes the musical aspects of trip-hop."


However, what I've found is that there are select songs that Theivery Corporation has produced that have "dub-like hypnotic effects a la ambient music" for example the outernationalist and radio retaliation just to name a few. DJ Krush has a song called "On The Dub-Ble" (Fabulous song by the way) that also shares these effects as well. The problem with this, is that they are both categorized as Trip-hop. That's my main problem. I'm a bit anal when it comes to organizing music, so I hate for this to be anyone's problem, i just maybe need an easy way/better way to explain each genre. That way, I'll be able to distinguish between the two. My instincts tell me that the two are quite different from one another. There are obvious differences, but describing them is the most difficult.

Thanks,

Mikey

I've found some more things. This actually makes it easier for me to understand. One guy posted on another forum that the differences is:

"If a track is mellow, with strong soul, jazz and/or house elements, but too slow for working up a sweat on the dancefloor, that's downtempo.

If a track is slow, dark, with surreal or trippy effects and a heavy, reverbed beat, that's trip-hop."


And then http://www.triphop-music.com/faq#1 has posted what trip-hop consisted of.

Now I'm about 90% positive I know the difference between the two now. Does anyone disagree with anything I've said thus far?

Too slow = down-tempo

Trippy elements = trip-hop

kk

The main difference between the two is tempo, trip hop is usually mid tempo while downtempo, well is just that. Also Trip Hop is typically funk drum beats, but some rock fusion as well. Trip Hop also usually incorporates other techniques that are standard traits, like sampling drums or a loop from an old track and using it in the new track "Turntablism", scratching or other Hip Hop techniques.

I remember being that anal about organizing my music too, however these days I'm glad I grew out of it, especially after seeing posts like this. Completely pointless dilemmas and needless headaches that are only good for diverting your attention from the music itself.

You'll have to understand that there are no official rules for genre naming, and that there are no electronic music headquarters that have all the electronic music classified by some standards. Everyone has a different label for a certain area of music, and you'll get nowhere if you try to reach an agreement over some questionable label (like downtempo) over the forum.

So it's best to discard the labels all together, but if you really have to have the "genre tag" filled up it's best to do it the way you think it fits. At the end, it's not really a tragedy to have Massive Attack categorized under downtempo, together with Ulrich Schnauss and The Orb for example.

Sljiva is right. When you just start learning about all the different genres out there you think they are scientific categories with specific meanings. After a couple of years, you realise they're the opposite.

"Downtempo" is not a genre. It just means "slow music".

"Trip-hop" is a term coined by Mixmag to refer to the solemn, soulful hip-hop coming out of Bristol at the beginning of the 90s.

Ninja Tune > all of your mothers.

I don't think it's really that bad to spend time categorizing stuff so long as you aren't totally conditioned or obsessed

so I took a shit and thought about this ...

they are both subgenres of breaks & basically interchangeable terms. "downtempo" is a little more inclusive while "trip-hop" is historical.

SYSTEM-J, you are definitely wrong about "downtempo" - house and techno both have tracks below 110bpm but they still retain their genre characteristics.

quote:

Originally posted by mehta SYSTEM-J, you are definitely wrong about "downtempo" - house and techno both have tracks below 110bpm but they still retain their genre characteristics.

What's your point? "Downtempo" isn't a genre and so doesn't have any genre characteristics. You will find everyone from house and techno producers to drum 'n bass and progressive house guys making downtempo tracks. There are even downtempo rock songs.

Fair enough, we disagree.

You think "downtempo" is a literal term whereas I see that it has genre characteristics. It can describe a great deal of music, all of which uses predominantly breakbeats, lower tempos, and "atmospheric" content.

Lots of music described as downtempo is aesthetically connected. To reduce it to a tempo signifier is inaccurate.

quote:

Originally posted by mehta Fair enough, we disagree. You think "downtempo" is a literal term whereas I see that it has genre characteristics. It can describe a great deal of music, all of which uses predominantly breakbeats, lower tempos, and "atmospheric" content. Lots of music described as downtempo is aesthetically connected. To reduce it to a tempo signifier is inaccurate.

Is it possible that a lot of the downtempo music you listen to is aesthetically connected?

Trouble is, breakbeats + low tempo + "atmospheric" = trip-hop, abstract hip-hop, ambient house, dub, dubstep, atmospheric drum 'n bass, psychill, world beat, progressive breaks, illbient...

The fact that slow tracks tend to be atmospheric and that producers tend to use gentle shuffly rhythms on these tracks doesn't make it some giant, interconnected genre.

thanks for all your help guys.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Is it possible that a lot of the downtempo music you listen to is aesthetically connected?

Good question, but I don't really listen to much downtempo. I'm just defending its status here because you seem like someone who won't get too bothered from bouncing some ideas around.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J The fact that slow tracks tend to be atmospheric and that producers tend to use gentle shuffly rhythms on these tracks doesn't make it some giant, interconnected genre.

I'm not talking about "gentle shuffly rhythms" - the easiest difference to notice between types of dance music is the kick pattern. house/techno/trance predominantly uses a kick on each quarter note - breaks don't. Pretty simple.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Trouble is, breakbeats + low tempo + "atmospheric" = trip-hop, abstract hip-hop, ambient house, dub, dubstep, atmospheric drum 'n bass, psychill, world beat, progressive breaks, illbient...

Psychill is a genre while downtempo is not? Atmospheric drum & bass and dubstep are low tempo? Ambient house is a type of breaks? Bizarre! You belie your authoritative knowledge with this paragraph.

You are right that downtempo includes a huge variety of subgenres & includes lots of mostly unrelated stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by mehta I'm not talking about "gentle shuffly rhythms" - the easiest difference to notice between types of dance music is the kick pattern. house/techno/trance predominantly uses a kick on each quarter note - breaks don't. Pretty simple.

I know exactly what you're talking about, and my point stands. Your claim has little basis, anyway. House, techno, disco, trance and most hardcore all use a kick on each quarter note. Doesn't make them one giant genre, does it?

quote:

Psychill is a genre while downtempo is not? Atmospheric drum & bass and dubstep are low tempo? Ambient house is a type of breaks? Bizarre! You belie your authoritative knowledge with this paragraph

1. Psychill is a clearly defined scene with noted labels and artists who frequently collaborate together and play the same events. That's a genre.

2. Atmospheric drum 'n bass is low tempo, typically between 75-90bpm. The breaks merely play in double time. Same with chilled dubstep - it's all composed at 70bpm.

3. Have you actually listened to the definitive ambient house records? The Orb's Adventures Beyond the Ultraworld? William Orbit's Strange Cargo? The KLF's Chill Out? Lots of breaks, very few 4/4 kicks. Don't think that the word "house" in the genre title means anything.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J House, techno, disco, trance and most hardcore all use a kick on each quarter note. Doesn't make them one giant genre, does it?

It's all closely related. There are huge differences in tempo, timbre, approaches to melody & harmony, but the basic beat pattern is a powerful defining force.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J 1. Psychill is a clearly defined scene with noted labels and artists who frequently collaborate together and play the same events. That's a genre.

You are describing a scene, not a genre. What are its definitive sonic characteristics?

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J 2. Atmospheric drum 'n bass is low tempo, typically between 75-90bpm. The breaks merely play in double time. Same with chilled dubstep - it's all composed at 70bpm.

Disagree. Dubstep hangs out somewhere between 125-150bpm. Drum & bass is generally 160+. Neither is low-tempo although sparse breaks can give that impression.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J 3. Have you actually listened to the definitive ambient house records? The Orb's Adventures Beyond the Ultraworld? William Orbit's Strange Cargo? The KLF's Chill Out? Lots of breaks, very few 4/4 kicks. Don't think that the word "house" in the genre title means anything.

OK, you are absolutely right about this - historically, "ambient house" is part of downtempo. I was thinking of more contemporary ambient house such as Foal or STL.

I think the problem we are having here is that you use scenes, seminal artists/albums, and history to define "genre" whereas I use a system based entirely on sound patterns.

quote:

Originally posted by Schadenfreude Ninja Tune > all of your mothers.

also Buck 65.

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