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Different Musical Keys Have Different Character?

I've heard it mention on forums and a few webpages that there are difference between musical keys. Do you guys have some kind of mechanical explanation or is there any kind of scientific explanation for it?

I believe each DAW tunes each note to universal interval, meaning transposing keys makes no color difference only tonality. It is in acoustic or physical instruments such as guitar, piano, that the tunings drift between keys.

I like this thread because in the waves tune plugin, you have the option to completely customize your intervals/scale by frequency allowing full custom pitch tuning. I wonder if any pro's use this? like that epic trance lead octave note is pitched up by 10c to "accent" the uplift? or vice versa the minor chords are tuned slightly down to sit under the tonic and sound darker by comparison to the tonic.

I would like to see some insightful replies from the veterans on here, the production studio needs at least a 500% increase in activity to augment my quest for knowledge. :P

Re: Different Musical Keys Have Different Character?

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux I've heard it mention on forums and a few webpages that there are difference between musical keys. Do you guys have some kind of mechanical explanation or is there any kind of scientific explanation for it?

depends on what kind of tuning. With DAWs, unless specified, you are using equal tuning which makes the ratios between each interval identical. Same with pianos.

Just google it. Tuning has a long history. Each method has a trade off. We typically use equal and although 5ths are a little flat, we are so used to hearing it that way that it sounds perfectly in tune.

As far as moving everything up or down a few cents. It won't sound brighter or darker, just more tense as the harmonic will not line up as well thus sound a little more dissonant.

ok, so then would you say melodically complex production such as "Garden State" by Airbase (just one of my fav choons ever) implements more of perfect tuning due to good gear/know how; or a pitch trick moving dissonance towards consonance?

safe to say all EDM uses equal tuning. You don't need good gear or know how. It is the standard.

thx!

Re: Different Musical Keys Have Different Character?

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux I've heard it mention on forums and a few webpages that there are difference between musical keys. Do you guys have some kind of mechanical explanation or is there any kind of scientific explanation for it?

Sounds to me like the OP is asking about differences in mood that are conveyed by different keys (???) Can you clarify?

Hey you missed a killer program here in the UK on bbc radio 4

Each day for a week they discussed a different scale and what particular qualities it has. Of course its subjective to the listener but the guy really made it interesting (even though i actually find it fascinating anyway). He started on c major saying that it has a sense of optimism and eternal hope with a definiate finality about it. He went through 6 other scales I missed a couple due to work but like he was saying B Major has a charging, energetic, conquering feel to it etc etc.

Is this what you meant?

I mentioned the other day too that if you use (help me richie) pythagoran? tuning the actual frequencies go marginally out the further around the circle of 5ths you go, so maybe they each have a unique quality about them. Like richie said though it may be irrelevant because we use equal tuning where this doesnt happen.

When i bought this question up earlier this week I was hoping for a bit more on it so hopefully people will discuss it.

Or maybe its whichever black hole was in line with the earth when you were born or something =s

edit: dunno if you can use the BBC i-player online in the US but the program was called key matters if your interested and can recieve it.

Re: Re: Different Musical Keys Have Different Character?

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik Sounds to me like the OP is asking about differences in mood that are conveyed by different keys (???) Can you clarify?

Yes.

I'm talking about using the same type of scale, just starting off with a different key. I heard a pro about keys, so I wanted to look into it.

Some say yes, some say no.. some say it depends on the timbre of the sounds..

quote:

Originally posted by Kthought I believe each DAW tunes each note to universal interval, meaning transposing keys makes no color difference only tonality. It is in acoustic or physical instruments such as guitar, piano, that the tunings drift between keys. I like this thread because in the waves tune plugin, you have the option to completely customize your intervals/scale by frequency allowing full custom pitch tuning. I wonder if any pro's use this? like that epic trance lead octave note is pitched up by 10c to "accent" the uplift? or vice versa the minor chords are tuned slightly down to sit under the tonic and sound darker by comparison to the tonic. I would like to see some insightful replies from the veterans on here, the production studio needs at least a 500% increase in activity to augment my quest for knowledge. :P

Ah now this is an interesting question. You generally won't run into any issues as such in this department, but it can make for interesting sound design opportunities. Like using microtunings on certain notes to change the emphasis.

I use this quite a bit in guitar, tuning the top strings sharp makes them stand out more and the guitar shimmer a lot more IME.

Its also worth remembering that different scales means using different positions on the keyboard/guitar, which naturally lends itself to different progressions, so for the musician each will have a different feel, even in equal tuning.

It may also have a different feel for the listener, considering that there are probably different associations with different keys which come from hearing them in different contexts. Thats just a hypothesis though...

There's a writing about it here:

http://biteyourownelbow.com/keychar.htm

I don't know if I completely agree with some of the classifications but I really do think there are differences, especially between key signatures containing flats and ones containing sharps.

Even if I have the same progression and I move it all a half step from G to Ab, there's a pretty significant difference between the character of them. Major keys like G and E have some kind of inherent "innocent" and "happy" character to them that keys like F# and Ab don't seem to have. At least that's how they sound to me.. as far as why, I couldn't tell you.

quote:

Originally posted by Kysora I really do think there are differences, especially between key signatures containing flats and ones containing sharps.

So, are you suggesting that a piano piece written in C#-major will have a different mood or feel than the same song written in Db-major?

quote:

Yeah, well, it's part of a trilogy, a musical trilogy that I'm doing in D... minor, which I always find is really the saddest of all keys, really, I don't know why. It makes people weep instantly to play...this piece is called "Lick My Love Pump."

- Nigel Tufnel (Spinal Tap)

Yes, there is a lot of debate over whether specific keys convey specific moods, and TBH, I've never bought into that line of thinking - but, others do. To me, emotion is conveyed through performance/delivery, expression, dynamics, melody, harmony, timing, range, etc. That's not to say that key doesn't play a role in all of that. I find myself routinely changing the key on songs in the early stages to get better expression out of my sounds and better mixes, but this has more to do with finding the "sweet spot" of the instruments or vocalist's range that I'm working with, and nothing to do with finding a specific key that someone else might identify as conveying a certain mood.

pretty sure all those key descriptions where written before the early 19th century where equal temperament became universal. The most recent one by Schubart is somewhat suspect in that he was mostly known for organ which used equal temperament a little later.

Key choice has more to do with orchestration and piece unity than any of these trite and over simplistic key descriptions. SImilar with dance , the most important factor in choosing a key has to do with the bass sweet spot as this is really the most important aspect to dance. Choose a key where the bass goes too low or too high and you get a bad club track.

As to whether C # or Db sound different on a piano ? Well I would like to say in your head but if you hear it , well without testing, I can't say you are wrong. Performers like singers and string players will tend to play sharp keys a little sharper and flat keys a little flatter which against the pure pitch of the brass and woodwinds does somewhat change the feel. I can say that for average performers , the sight of 7 sharps rather than 5 flats might make a performer more anxious and tense. There are alot of factors that would incline one to chose one key over another but those mood charts are not really taken seriously.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik So, are you suggesting that a piano piece written in C#-major will have a different mood or feel than the same song written in Db-major?

I'm talking about within the circle of fifths progression, sharped keys like G, D, A, E, etc and flatted keys like F, Bb, Eb, Ab, etc. The differences between, say, G to F are a bit more obvious than the difference between G to A.

Enharmonic keys are obviously going to sound the same, I wasn't suggesting anywhere that calling a key signature something else makes it sound different.

But like I said, that's just how I perceive them.

quote:

Originally posted by Kysora Enharmonic keys are obviously going to sound the same, I wasn't suggesting anywhere that calling a key signature something else makes it sound different.

Just testing ya!

But, that said, I was somewhat serious because I do wonder sometimes if people perceive enharmonic keys differently when they know which key it is written in. The listener who doesn't know what key a song is written in would obviously have no way of hearing a difference between a piano piece written in C# vs Db because there isn't one from his/her perspective. But, if someone is told that they are listening a track in Db they may perceive it as lower (and possibly sadder?) than if they were told that it is written in C#. I don't know - just speculating, and that was sorta the devious agenda behind my question to you.

enharmonic keys do sound different tho in an orchestral setting. C#+ will sound brighter than Db+ . I think it is mostly practice performance but I have a feeling the cognitive ramifications of seeing sharps rather than flats affects the resulting performance.

quote:

Originally posted by RichieV As to whether C # or Db sound different on a piano ? Well I would like to say in your head but if you hear it , well without testing, I can't say you are wrong.

I see we were typing at the same time - there's your master's thesis question!

quote:

Originally posted by RichieV I can say that for average performers , the sight of 7 sharps rather than 5 flats might make a performer more anxious and tense...I think it is mostly practice performance but I have a feeling the cognitive ramifications of seeing sharps rather than flats affects the resulting performance.

Interesting point - never thought of that, but it certainly makes sense and would certainly affect the mood of the performance.

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