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-- How do you a master a mix?

Posted by Eugene on Jul-13-2002 02:23:

How do you a master a mix?

I was thinking about recording my mix, and I want to make it sound "pro." This means probably that I have to master it somehow. What does this term mean?

Also, do I need a high-end sound card for making the mix sound crisp and clean? I'm thinking of buying M-Audio Delta44 ($230). Currently, I have a cheap $30 card whose results are actually not that bad, but pretty flat-sounding and definitely amateurish.

Any thoughts?

Posted by Inertia on Jul-13-2002 04:54:

the sound card wont influence the quality of the mix,
since its the quality of the files themselves that
counts. it could sound like shit on your computer
because of a cheap sound card, and sound great on a
good system. if the sound is quality, its quality period.

Posted by Dj Thy on Jul-13-2002 11:53:

The sound card will DEFINATELY influence the quality of the mix. If you want great recordings, recording in 24 bit will definately improve the quality. The sound will be way more dynamic. But on the other hand, the recording will take up quite a lot of more space, so keep that in mind.
Buying a M-audio soundcard is never a bad choice. Their cards have quality written all over them.

Mastering on the other hand isn't so easy to do. It requires quite an extensive knowledge of Eq'ing, compression and other tweaks. The goal of mastering is to make it sound good. Point. Give the overal recording a certain amount of loudness, punchiness, etc... But most important of all, it aims to make a recording sound decent on most types of setups (if you master a tune to sound good on high quality speakers, but it's unbearable on radioshack speakers, then you've done a bad job of mastering).

If you want to try your hand at mastering, I suggest you look for a program called T-racks. It's an all in one mastering program, and good results can be achieved with it (of course it can't compare to hardware mastering packages or expensive plugins, but it's a good proggie to start).
Also, read some articles on http://www.studiocovers.com/
One of the best pages around about audio tutorials.

Posted by Eugene on Jul-13-2002 14:18:

Thanks a lot for you advice.

quote:
Originally posted by Dj Thy
Buying a M-audio soundcard is never a bad choice. Their cards have quality written all over them.

What about Sound Blaster and Creative Labs?

Posted by El~ZaPo on Jul-13-2002 16:30:

I'm not a big fan of Soundblaster products.

Eugene, check out this site: http://www.3dss.com

The best site for computer sound reviews. Check their forums, you will get all the answers you need there. This is the only site for computer sound you should visit, since I find all of their opinions to be unbiased.

Posted by Inertia on Jul-13-2002 16:37:

quote:
Originally posted by Dj Thy
The sound card will DEFINATELY influence the quality of the mix. If you want great recordings, recording in 24 bit will definately improve the quality. The sound will be way more dynamic. But on the other hand, the recording will take up quite a lot of more space, so keep that in mind.
Buying a M-audio soundcard is never a bad choice. Their cards have quality written all over them.

the sound card wont influence the quality of the mix, just how it sounds on your computer.

quote:

Mastering on the other hand isn't so easy to do. It requires quite an extensive knowledge of Eq'ing, compression and other tweaks. The goal of mastering is to make it sound good. Point. Give the overal recording a certain amount of loudness, punchiness, etc... But most important of all, it aims to make a recording sound decent on most types of setups (if you master a tune to sound good on high quality speakers, but it's unbearable on radioshack speakers, then you've done a bad job of mastering).

youre right on that last one, a well mastered track ahould sound good on any equipment, therefore if you can make it sound good on a bad card, even better, meaning it will sound great on good quality equipment. the sound card just serves a computer as an output device, mastering and such is made thru your processor, unless youre playing soemthing, the sound card isnt even working

Posted by Luke Terry on Jul-13-2002 22:05:

Generally, when you master you wnat to do these things:

1. Remove sound impuritites (clicks, pops, etc)
2. Compression (make the sound tighter, and also creates a smaller differenciation between the loud and quiet parts)
3. Smooth (make the sound smoother, opposite to enhance)
4. EQ (boost areas of the mix to create a punchier sound)

Remember, mastering will never make bad soung good, but will improve it and can mmake good sound immense.

ACID is a good prog for this IMO and u can do a lot of stuff with it for the money, but only 2 master with, not 2 mix. Also nice if u wanna start producing aswell

Posted by Dj Thy on Jul-13-2002 22:23:

quote:
Originally posted by Inertia
the sound card wont influence the quality of the mix, just how it sounds on your computer.

No, no and no. The quality of your mix depends on the recording properties you set. And when you record your stuff on computer, the difference between a consumer card (Soundblaster and consorts) and (semi)pro soundcards will make a difference.

First of all better cards have better components (that's what makes them more expensive), better components induce less noise. Less noise is a better recording.
The capabilities of the card also make a difference. Like I already said, a 24 bit recording sounds way more dynamic than a 16 bit recording (and if you say that's not true, well sorry, buy new ears).
The fact is that consumer cards don't allow 24 bit recording (and also not the highest sampling freq's, if you wanna know what's all the fuss about bitdepth and sampling rate, I've written an extensive answer some time ago on this forum).

For the output it won't matter that much (unless you count the fact that only better cards can read files with higher bitdepth and samplerate).

But when you record something, what defines the quality at the base is the recording, not the output. And having a better soundcard is important. Do you think professional studio's use soundblasters to record their stuff? No, they use high priced audio interfaces with extensive in- and outputs and high grade components so they have the best possible quality in their recordings.

As for Eugene, you don't really need to buy a semi pro card to get decent recordings. But getting a good card will improve the sound. 24/96 is a must, and if you use music progs, ASIO or WDM support is a must. You don't really need to spend tons of money to get such cards.
Just look at the M-audio Audiophile 24/96 or the Terratec Dmx6fire (even LT)

Posted by Eugene on Jul-13-2002 23:02:

Wow, guys, thanks a lot for your replies!
Your information is very useful!

Just one question: There are many cards that have the number "24" splashed all over them, and yet they don't provide 24-bit recording. Why? Because the "24" refers to playback only, not to recording. And in the computer stores around me, I haven't seen any cards that would allow 24-bit recording, only the playback. DJ Thy, I'm assuming that's what you called "consumer-level sound cards."

By the way, my Dad -- who has some experience in engineering -- told me that a 16-bit resolution should be sufficient for quality recording. Is he right? In my experience, there are professional CD's that you can buy at the store, and then there are amateurish CD's that I burn myself, and there's a hell of a difference! I'm guessing that has something to do with the sound card.

I have a powerful Pentium machine, why shouldn't I be able to achieve professional results, right?
P.S. DJ Thy: M-Audio Audiophile 24/96 is selling for $159.00 here:
http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Audio/AP2496.htm
Should I buy it? Is it a good price?

Posted by Dj Thy on Jul-14-2002 00:05:

It's a pretty good price yeah.

Why so many manufacturers (to name one, Creative with their Audigy) claim to have 24 bit capability? That's pure marketing my friend. The same reason they use musical watts and RMS watts with speakers.
Someone that doesn't know anything about this bitdepth mumbo jumbo will see a 16 bit card and a "24 bit" card for the same price. Which one do you think he'll get?

About the cd's, well your dad is right. 16 bits will suffice to get you a decent recording. An (normal) audio cd is per definition 16 bits, 44.1 Khz. So with a consumer soundcard you have enough to make a perfect cd (in theory).
But fact is, with high grade soundcards you'll get better recordings. You can apply effects, compression, whatever you like, on a qualitatively better recording. And only on the end, downsample to 16 bit, 44.1 kHz to put on cd. And assuming the dithering method is good, you'll get a better sounding cd than you would if you recorded it at 16 bit right away.

Of course, it's not only the soundcard that matters. In the audio business, a general rule is applied : the weakest link of the chain will determine the overall quality. If you use a state of the art soundcard, but use old needles on your TT's, or your cables are crappy, the soundcard won't make up for all that.
And don't forget : on commercial cd's, there are trained people that are working on the mixing and mastering. These guys/girls have been learning years to get their job done good. So it's quite normal that your cd's won't sound as good as commercial releases (unless you are a natural talent).

If you're serious about your recordings, buying a M-audio won't disappoint you. Keep in mind those cards are made for audio. So sound for gaming or stuff like that is an extra on those cards, not a certainty (except on the Terratec DMX cards)...

Posted by Eugene on Jul-14-2002 02:01:

Thanks for the well-written summary.
Just bought the Audiophile 2496 from that site.
The T-Racks prog you mentioned costs $299 and is out of the question

Posted by Trypsin on Jul-14-2002 19:57:

You'll need a good recording program, too - windows' Sound Recorder won't do the trick. I use Sound Forge. CoolEdit seems to be pretty popular as well - that's what the radio station I spin on uses for all of their production work.

Also, how are you connecting your mixer to your box? Make sure you use high quality cables and all that jazz, and if your mixer has digital outputs and your soundcard a digital input, then bonus points for you...