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-- First track. (Back to WIP),

First track. (Back to WIP),

Produced in FL 9. My first serious attempt at a full piece. I learned loads and had exponentially more fun making it.

I did put Maximus on the master channel, as part of learning how master's work and what they do for your sound. It seems to have done a good job rounding out the overall sound and boosting the lows a bit. I know that some get touchy about doing your own master if you're not a sound engineer, but I wanted to give it a shot anyway, so I hope it turned out alright.

-Edit- And something funky happened to the snare. The .mp3 on my desktop has the snare set perfectly the way I wanted it, while the soundcloud version has an obnoxious amount of treble. *Shrug*

Thanks for listening and I hope you enjoy! Comments and criticism are also welcome.

Blue Twilight by TheTerranAstronaut

Niiiiiiiice. Needs work, but this is an excellent first showing.

For starters, I'd shelve the kick and bring it up to give it some more mid and hi end EQ in the mix.

The break beat parts - and I do believe I know my break beat - are cluttered. That seriously needs to be cleaned up. The problem could be a lot of pumping in this mix - it could be side-chaining but I'm more lent to thinking you're using a limiter and that sweet kick you have is pushing the rest of the mix down.

Re: First track of 2010 - Blue Twilight

OMG for someone making music for close to 20 years this track is mostly unlistenable.

Lots of stuff going on but the aural characteristics are horrid.

Re: Re: First track of 2010 - Blue Twilight

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Originally posted by ******** OMG for someone making music for close to 20 years this track is mostly unlistenable. Lots of stuff going on but the aural characteristics are horrid.

Care to elaborate on the specifics? Also, what medium are you hearing the track from?

I can accept that for a first track the sound characteristics may (and probably are) horrible, I am a newbie and accept this. I think the other issue is that the track was originally mixed on a pair of Creative labs Fatalities, and I just recently aquired my sexy Beyerdynamic DT770 pro's. Alas, more insight would be useful to help improve the track.

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Originally posted by EddieZilker Niiiiiiiice. Needs work, but this is an excellent first showing.

Thanks for the kind words ^^.

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For starters, I'd shelve the kick and bring it up to give it some more mid and hi end EQ in the mix.

I am, like I said, a total novice and am not sure what shelving is. I do sort-of know what side-chaining is, and that FL9 supports it, but I haven't learned how to do it yet. (there's probably a how-to-sidechain in the FL studio help file, or I can google it I'm sure)

So rather than asking a bunch of dumb questions, could you point me to where the EQ'ing tutorial is on trance addict? I know that saw it once, but upon going back and searching again, I can't seem to find it.

The only thing that would act as a limiter on the kick/track would be the master. I have a Parametric EQ and a Multiband compresser on the kick itself and that's it. The Parametric EQ is slightly boosting the 50-100 Hz range by +2 dB and is subtracting a Parabolic section @ 2kHz of -6 dB to get rid of a clicking overtone.

I also have a feeling that I should not have attempted a master, but it was fun to try anyway :P

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The break beat parts - and I do believe I know my break beat - are cluttered. That seriously needs to be cleaned up. The problem could be a lot of pumping in this mix - it could be side-chaining but I'm more lent to thinking you're using a limiter and that sweet kick you have is pushing the rest of the mix down.

Part of why I wondered if a little dissertation at the start was acceptable. I think I have a good handle on my strengths and weaknesses, and beat-making is definitely one of my weaker points, along with FX'ing. I could make a comprehensive self analysis but I think that there is probably a better place/forum section for that.

Anyway, thanks for listening and providing feedback. <3

Re: Re: Re: First track of 2010 - Blue Twilight

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Originally posted by theterran Rather than asking a bunch of dumb questions because I am, like I said, a total novice and am not sure what shelving is...Could you point me to where the EQ'ing tutorial was on trance addict? I know that saw it once, but upon going back and searching again, I can't seem to find it. The only thing that would act as a limiter on the kick/track would be the master. I have a Parametric EQ and a Multiband on the kick itself and that's it. Part of why I wondered if a little dissertation at the start was acceptable. I think I have a good handle on my strengths and weaknesses, and beat-making is definitely one of my weaker points, along with FX'ing. I could make a comprehensive self analysis but I think that there is probably a better place/forum section for that. Anyway, thanks for at least listening.

Actually, it's probably easier for me to just show you rather than point you in the direction of the tutorial because I haven't read it, yet.



The picture above is my preferred shelving configuration for kicks. It's not the EQ you have but it should translate - hopefully yours has graphics, too. With anything below about 30Hz cut (1), I then "shelve" (2) a span of EQ where the most prominent presence above 30Hz is lowered significantly but not cut, altogether. The rest of the EQ is raised, only slightly, to give a bit more of the full-spectrum's presence in the mix.

With basses I'll raise the frequency of the shelf to between 250-450Hz - these are the more harmonic of the lower frequencies.

Generally, it's a good idea to use a compressor before you shelve, but I break this rule, all the time. (see above )

Since lowering some of the most present frequencies in the track, I can raise its volume sufficiently to give it more presence in the mix. It's kind of an odd quirk of psycho-acoustics, since it would seem like in order to get more of a bass sound, you'd want to add more bass. By shelving the bass but raising the volume on the track, you are but you're also adding some attending higher frequencies which can help cut through the muddiness of a particular instrument and add depth and clarity.

FWIW, the track the screenshot of the EQ pertains to was this one and it has a bass-reflix which kills.

EDIT:

quote:

Originally posted by theterran The only thing that would act as a limiter on the kick/track would be the master. I have a Parametric EQ and a Multiband compresser on the kick itself and that's it. The Parametric EQ is slightly boosting the 50-100 Hz range by +2 dB and is subtracting a Parabolic section @ 2kHz of -6 dB to get rid of a clicking overtone.

There's the pump. DJ RANN has had some interesting things to say on mixing to unity - that is mixing so that there is no clipping and that the accumulation of tracks results in peaks no greater than .03 dB to the limit of the amplitude of the master channel.

Cheers, I'll see if I cant translate it into the EQ in FL. There's actually 3 of them, So I'm not entirely sure which one is the best fit for what I'm doing.

I'm currently using number 3 (The pretty one) as it seems to be the easiest to work with, as up until this point I've been trying to do most everything by ear.

I also think the best course of action at this point is to again strip EVERYTHING off of all of my instruments and go back to neutral, leaving the arrangement itself alone, and then trying again with the Beyer's instead of the fatalities. On top of that, I'll delve into all of the tutorials. (I found them)

Things of note : My windows sound amp is set to 50%, FL studio is set to 100%. I've set my soundcard to music production mode and disabled all EAX effects and onboard mixers, so I'm assuming that I have an overall flat EQ to work with.

quote:

Originally posted by theterran I also think the best course of action at this point is to again strip EVERYTHING off of all of my instruments and go back to neutral, leaving the arrangement itself alone, and then trying again with the Beyer's instead of the fatalities. On top of that, I'll delve into all of the tutorials (I found them) and see if that improves anything.

That's a good plan. I always get to a point in a song where I'm not quite sure how to proceed or what to add, but I've already got a bunch of stuff down, so I'll fix the mix, and listen to how it sounds with everything more balanced.

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Originally posted by EddieZilker That's a good plan. I always get to a point in a song where I'm not quite sure how to proceed or what to add, but I've already got a bunch of stuff down, so I'll fix the mix, and listen to how it sounds with everything more balanced.

Alas, as the 2nd poster has said, the aural quality was poor when he or she listened to it. Basically, they could not listen to it at all... So either my ears are not as good as I thought, and I cannot trust my own judgment in terms of sound quality, or the particular medium in which the sound is being produced has a large underlying factor.

When I mix something and then render it, I try to hear it on at least 3 mediums : my headphones, the stock stereo system in my 2002 Tacoma, and the 1500W Alpine Home theater system downstairs. Sometimes I'll even throw it on my ipod and have a listen through the stock earbuds...I thought this tune sounded pretty good on all of them...

So I'm a bit stumped to say the least.

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Originally posted by theterran Alas, as the 2nd poster has said, the aural quality was poor when he or she listened to it. So either my ears are not as good as I thought, and I cannot trust my own judgment in terms of sound quality, or the particular medium in which the sound is being produced has a large underlying factor. When I mix something and then render it, I try to hear it on at least 3 mediums : my headphones, the stock stereo system in my 2002 Tacoma, and the 1500W Alpine Home theater system downstairs. So I'm a bit stumped to say the least.

Oooh! It oozes with sarcasm.

Um, I would ignore anything the second poster tells you. And, in fact, I've put him on ignore.






There are shirtless pictures of HIM floating around the CoR, somewhere. He has breasts. Really!

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker Oooh! It oozes with sarcasm. Um, I would ignore anything the second poster tells you. And, in fact, I've put him on ignore. There are shirtless pictures of HIM floating around the CoR, somewhere. He has breasts. Really!

Ah. I'll still most likely go through and remix anyway for giggles, especially with the new headphones.

I saved the original so even if it all goes horribly wrong I still have something.

-Edit- Also just started a piece to try and work on some breakbeats. It has the workings of a tasty track.

Re: Re: Re: First track of 2010 - Blue Twilight

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Originally posted by theterran Care to elaborate on the specifics?

Not really, but I will.

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Also, what medium are you hearing the track from?

somewhat standard 2.1 dolby digital Speakers. Somewhat cheap set of speakers I picked up in mexico called "perfect choice" They have really good output imo for their size. So no they arn't monitors, but the catch is that my favorite tracks play fine on headphones, speakers etc..

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I can accept that for a first track the sound characteristics may (and probably are) horrible, I am a newbie and accept this.

I've heard worse.

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I think the other issue is that the track was originally mixed on a pair of Creative labs Fatalities, and I just recently aquired my sexy Beyerdynamic DT770 pro's.

It ain't the equipment it is your ears. (or mine) Music is a personal thing, if it sounds good to you whatever.. personally I have picky tastes, and I couldn't listen to your track - this is not a unique experience for me. The vast majority of tracks, even those released professionally are crap to me.

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Alas, more insight would be useful to help improve the track.

Ok what you do is make it sound better. If you'd like me to remix it and show you exactly what I would do differently I can (I also use fruity 9) although I'm using an old p4 until I get my laptops back..
so I just don't have the ram I have on my laptops on this desktop.



Don't take it personally I have my own likes and dislikes like most people do. When listening to your track I had to skip the track as it was too bad to listen to. I have multiple streams of listening - the most basic is the "aural audibility test". Your track was too complex to listen to with stray audio and a muddy clashed sense to it.

Skip listening is a fast way to scan a track quickly to see the general idea of a track, its insturmentation etc..

there were some interesting things in your track but the overall aural quality was too harsh to listen to.

Re: Re: Re: Re: First track of 2010 - Blue Twilight

quote:

Originally posted by ******** Stuff.

I was erm, being a little sarcastic in my post and taking a poke at whatever sound system you were playing my track with. I know it sounds fine in terms of audio fidelity, as in it's not spewing treble all over the place and breaking people's ears. I've already had a few compliments from a few members of my online MMORPG group, and had them listen to it a few times to check the fidelity on other sound systems. (OH YES I AM A NERD AND PLAY EVE-ONLINE LOLOL /cruise control)

Don't get me wrong...I do not need praise, although it is nice. I am mainly here for the technical advice, some of which Eddie has already provided. The technical boundaries of my music have exceed that of my friend's abilities to give constructive criticism in that respect, so here I am. Also, some my online friends haven't even heard of trance until recently.

Your post did get me to thinking that remixing it with a decent set of studio headphones would clear up that muddy-ness and thus, I get a better sounding track. So long as my track improves just a little bit, it's making an improvement, and this is always good.

After hearing some of your stuff, I'm well aware that it's up to personal taste and you cannot please everyone. If you would like to remix this; however, I can see what we can arrange if you really want. I am using a few of the old Nexus1 soundpacks that I picked up cheap (My friend also purchased and gave me the analogue one as a gift, it is quite sexy) So unless you have Nexus, it's most likely not going to happen. I really cannot be arsed to transfer everything into .wav and jump through the necissary hoops.

After reading some of your posts, my bit of constructive criticism for you is this : You obviously understand that there exists this thing called taste, and if your taste doesn't match up with the song posted, you should try and refrain from spouting that it's "bad" or that it sounds like crap. This is easily misconstrued, especially with newer producers who are a bit sensitive. (I'm still a little sensitive, so caress me gently ok?)

There are other ways to convey your opinion of a track, which you've made an attempt to in your second post, so that's a step in the right direction. And no, I don't take things over the internet personally or seriously, as you could have called my track a steaming pile of dogshit and I probably would have just ignored you. You can go have a peek (if you haven't already) in my first thread in the chillout room to get what I mean.

-Edit- And yes, I edit the shit out of my posts, the editing habits from 2 years of AP english and College level writing comp cannot be broken.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: First track of 2010 - Blue Twilight

quote:

Originally posted by theterran I was erm, being a little sarcastic in my post and taking a poke at whatever sound system you were playing my track with. I know it sounds fine in terms of audio fidelity,

I'm not talking sample rate, I'm talking sound quality as in how you constructed the track and the instrumentation you used. This could be due to sample rate conversion but judging by the general unlistenability of the track I am more prone to think it is the structure and instrumentation.

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as in it's not spewing treble all over the place and breaking people's ears.

It is clouded.

quote:

I've already had a few compliments from a few members of my online MMORPG group, and have made them listen to it over and over to check the fidelity on other sound systems. (OH YES I AM A NERD AND PLAY EVE-ONLINE LOLOL /cruise control)

Like I said I'm not your average listener.

quote:

Don't get me wrong...I do not need praise.(although it is nice) I am here for the technical assistence, some of which Eddie has already provided. The boundaries of my music have exceed that of my friend's abilities to give constructive criticism, so here I am. (Some my online friends haven't even heard of trance until recently)

whatever.

quote:

Your post did get me to thinking that remixing it with a decent set of studio headphones would clear up that muddy-ness and thus, I get a better sounding track. So long as my track improves just a little bit, it's making an improvement, and this is always good.

It doesn't take good equipment to make good sound. It takes good structure and composition.

quote:

After hearing some of your stuff, I'm well aware that it's up to personal taste and you cannot please everyone. If you would like to remix this; however, I can see what we can arrange if you really want.

Either post the zip online or send it to my email.

quote:

I am using a few of the old Nexus1 soundpacks that I picked up cheap (My friend also purchased and gave me the analogue one as a gift, it is quite sexy) So unless you have Nexus, it's most likely not going to happen. I really cannot be arsed to transfer everything into .wav and jump through the necissary hoops.

Just transfer it as is. I didn't like your instrumentation regardless.

quote:

After reading some of your posts, my bit of constructive criticism for you is this : You obviously understand that there exists this thing called taste, and if your taste doesn't match up with the song posted, you should try and refrain from spouting that it's "bad"

No. Actually I think it is important. If the song sucks it sucks. Most of the tracks I like are top quality "hit tracks" that "everyone loves" and no pop but generally top ranked tracks. So it does tell me my taste in music matches pretty much everyones in terms of from their top picks. 9 times out of 10. I called a number of club hits before they were.

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or that it sounds like crap. This is easily misconstrued, especially with newer producers who are a bit sensitive. (I'm still a little sensitive, so caress me gently ok?)

I was in the same spot you were, well not really. But no I think it is important to keep yourself grounded, just take it with a grain of salt. One thing I learned by constructive feedback and by making hundreds of tracks is that the trakc you make tomorrow will have a chance of sounding better than the one you made yesterday. While from time to time you make a stellar track that stays in your favorites for some time, a year or two down the road you can take another look and maybe improve it.

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There are other ways to convey your opinion of a track, which you've made an attempt to in your second post, so that's a step in the right direction.

Dude I've done many a reviews and I know the many forms I was also a member of and knew people within the tracking scene (although I came in on the ass end of it) I personally didn't even find wasting my time as I am now in listening to a track that I didn't find compelling enough to listen to fully because I didn't find it of a quality that I felt compelled to listen to it. If I was a dj going through a box of records it would be much the same. I don't have the time to sit down and listen to 100 tracks in full so I listen to what actually is of quality to listen to. It could be a 32 k/bit radio stream or a 360kbs file fact is it ain't the qaulity it is how the song feels, ideas, and hooks. The thing was bland and akward to listen to. I'm not saying the track had nothing to it. I just didn't find the structure appealing.

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And no, I don't take things over the internet personally or seriously, you can go have a peek (if you haven't already) in my first thread in the chillout room lol.

I would if I were you but if you can't take honest feedback don't read my posts.

Now that was far more constructive overall tbh. I still don't agree with all of your points, but there were some decent points in there nonetheless. Hence why I didn't outright ignore you.

As for you deciding what others may think about a track...whatever.

And what I meant with the taking things seriously, I don't let the bad shit get me down, and I let the good inspire more music and creativity. So apologies if I sounded like I didn't care what people had to say ^^. (Maybe just not you anymore lol)

-Edit- And do understand that I'm just trying to be honest like you are man. I'm not trying to troll or be disrespectful, so lets just quit while we're ahead.

edited out.

edited out

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