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Finally got my monitors - Need Mix feedback

Hey guys.

I'm looking for some feedback on the mixing of a tune me and my brother made under the last week.

Got my first pair of monitors 2 weeks ago (HS80m) so it would be nice to get some inputs just to learn them better. I really loves the sound of them so I want to see if I got the Mix at least OK.

Thanx

Soundcloud Link

Headphones:

Bad:

Bass-line almost inaudible.

Kick could come up in the low end.

Mids and highs could come down.


Good:

Not muddy, at all.

Everything is nice and listenable with the only harshness sounding, somewhat, on the clap/snappy sound.

Pads sound full but quite clear.

Lead is smooth.


I'll listen to the mix tomorrow on my speakers.

Took me a year to get fully used to my monitors

Speakers:

Bad:

Kick present but not loud enough.

Percussion and hats seemed a little light compared to pitched instruments.

No bass-line - was there ever a bass-line.

Good:

All the good stuff I mentioned earlier.

Hope that helps.

Instantly recognized the vengeance loop, not a good sign!

keep at it tho!

Thanx for all the help Eddie, it means alot. I think your pretty spot on with everything you said.

Your right about the bass to, there is none. I may do a remix with a bass though but this version is bass free


Sako yes, it sure is a vengeance loop. It may be rather cheap but I think it sounds way better then if I should have made one myself ATM so until I get better with Percs...


Evolve - Yeah I understand it will take some time to fully understand them, but if you saw the speakers I've used in the last 5 years you would first laugh your as off and then break down and cry. It feels like a dream to mix on these now.


What about the song from a artistic point of view? Is it any good, does the lack of a bass drive people totally insane?

quote:

Originally posted by fuxzz Thanx for all the help Eddie, it means alot. I think your pretty spot on with everything you said. Your right about the bass to, there is none. I may do a remix with a bass though but this version is bass free Sako yes, it sure is a vengeance loop. It may be rather cheap but I think it sounds way better then if I should have made one myself ATM so until I get better with Percs... Evolve - Yeah I understand it will take some time to fully understand them, but if you saw the speakers I've used in the last 5 years you would first laugh your as off and then break down and cry. It feels like a dream to mix on these now. What about the song from a artistic point of view? Is it any good, does the lack of a bass drive people totally insane?

I know the feeling, it's WONDERFUL! Enjoy that! Nothing like working on monitors with a stereo ribbon. Next maybe sound treatment? Should be pretty cheap.

Yeah I think some sound treatment is next. I cant do whatever I want to the apartment though so I have to take that into consideration as well. Any suggestions?

I live in an apartment, it's perfect. My roommate adjacent to me is chill with edm beats within reason, but he's gone at class all day. With monitors in my experience I find that most producers produce low, and write melodies at a low volume. I don't have my monitors turned up loud very often. When my track gets moving along and I start feeling a groove, I turn it up and work on it that way for a few minutes, then turn it back down. Then towards the very end I tend to keep it pretty loud, followed by a break and then pretty low. My room is treated, the difference isn't huge but it's worth the $100. I nailed out some early reflection issues that were noticeable.

My neighbours has a sick understanding too, no problems what so ever.

I can see the positive sides of room treatment so I will definitely get it in the future, but I have to read up a bit on the subject before that. And maybe get to know my monitors a little better too, that way I guess it will be easier to hear what I need to do with the room.

There's actually a point I'd like to bring up that's half observation half serious question.

First, I pose the disclaimer that I'm a novice and can only make observations at this point.

Second, if there's a download to that .mp3 on soundcloud to get the master copy and this is how people have been reviewing it, disregard my observations below.

I would like to point out that soundcloud seems to distort a track in the med to high range when it's played from their site, or through the widget. I've uploaded 3-4 songs and every time it's made that particular range sound off compared to the master copy on my desktop. I even uploaded (And briefly removed) some professionally mastered tracks to see how it affected them, and it really pisses all over the sound IMO.

This treads on a very in depth topic that I'm still wrapping my head around, which deals with different audio mediums and how your track is affected by them. As to not bunny-trail off into that I'll digress...

____________________

I listened through a pair of Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro studio headphones, and my Logitech 5.1 speakers. (set to stereo)

In both cases :

- The medium-highs / highs seem distorted.

- The bass, kick, lows, low-meds and upper high end seemed fine. Kick was just a little muddy to me though. (I'm only running a 150W sub with my speakers)

I have personal qualms with the rhythms on two of the synths, but this thread is for the sound quality itself, so I'll refrain from getting off topic.

Overall I like the sound, it's quite groovy, but it still needs a little work I imagine.

So there's my dolla-fifty-two ^^

quote:

Originally posted by fuxzz My neighbours has a sick understanding too, no problems what so ever. I can see the positive sides of room treatment so I will definitely get it in the future, but I have to read up a bit on the subject before that. And maybe get to know my monitors a little better too, that way I guess it will be easier to hear what I need to do with the room.

Yeah, my room is big enough for a desk with my gear and my bed. I looked up treatment for a month or 2 I was on a treatment kick, just ended up treating almost every part of my room since it's so small. It's my little cell.

quote:

Originally posted by sako487 Instantly recognized the vengeance loop, not a good sign! keep at it tho!

It's not "not a good sign". Plenty of producers use them. They them for the effect, which can be desirable since they are so genre defining in the first place. When you have other accompanying exemplary elements of your production the VEC loop is less of a concern.

In Ableton 8 it is very similar to ReGroove and ReCycle (which are fantastic) where you can have Ableton intuitively slice a loop. Then you can not only rearrange the slices, but assign what the slice actually is and sounds like in the slice editor it has. On top of that you can release magnetic timing and assign things freely, so its not quantized, adding to your ability to achieve organic groove -- using this technique dynamically while it's under a groove channel produces incredible results.

You don't need much beyond that other than your inner groove, which I think should control everything anyway. Do unusual things. Doing things routinely or standardly isn't good practice in fantastic music production.

quote:

Originally posted by Evolve140 It's not "not a good sign". Plenty of producers use them. They them for the effect, which can be desirable since they are so genre defining in the first place. When you have other accompanying exemplary elements of your production the VEC loop is less of a concern. In Ableton 8 it is very similar to ReGroove and ReCycle (which are fantastic) where you can have Ableton intuitively slice a loop. Then you can not only rearrange the slices, but assign what the slice actually is and sounds like in the slice editor it has. On top of that you can release magnetic timing and assign things freely, so its not quantized, adding to your ability to achieve organic groove -- using this technique dynamically while it's under a groove channel produces incredible results. You don't need much beyond that other than your inner groove, which I think should control everything anyway. Do unusual things. Doing things routinely or standardly isn't good practice in fantastic music production.

I guess its just me, I dont like using loops anymore

quote:

Originally posted by theterran I have personal qualms with the rhythms on two of the synths, but this thread is for the sound quality itself, so I'll refrain from getting off topic.

Thanx for your input, it looks like I have to take another look at the higher freqs that you and someone else mentioned. About the rhythms of the synth, please do tell. A friend of mine complained about something similar so it could be the same thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Evolve140 Yeah, my room is big enough for a desk with my gear and my bed. I looked up treatment for a month or 2 I was on a treatment kick, just ended up treating almost every part of my room since it's so small. It's my little cell.

Warm and cosy then I think my room is a little to big to go all crazy though

quote:

Originally posted by fuxzz Thanx for your input, it looks like I have to take another look at the higher freqs that you and someone else mentioned. About the rhythms of the synth, please do tell. A friend of mine complained about something similar so it could be the same thing.

Was going to get around to this yesterday...^^

Here are my honest thoughts, so take what you will out of them.

Sound that comes in briefly at 0:30 seems too harsh for your mix. Try toning it down with different cutoffs/attacks etc... and see if you can't calm it down. Otherwise I would consider replacing it / stripping it out entirely.

The harmony that starts right after this, (30 seconds) starts with quarter note on the downbeat, 1/8th note on the "and of one" and then rolls into syncopated triplets.

This is fine by itself, but once you tack on your 2nd syncopated rhythm everything turns to goo.

At around 1:45 the second sound comes in. The rhythm just sounds wrong to me. It sounds as if it's trying to be a mix of on-beat and syncopation, and with 1 line already syncopated it should be one or the other I think.

The first thing I would try doing with the second sound is turning your delay off and listening to it to check if it's in time. If it is in time, try adjusting the timing on the delay. Even if it has a delay, I think it should be in time one way or another, unless you're playing with experimental patterns. (Which I assume you're not)

A suggestion for the quarter, 1/8th note => Triplet run is to tighten up the pattern. So maybe :

quarter on beat one, 1/8th on the and of one, tri-po-let, tri-po-let,tri-po-let repeat back to quarter. This should give it a half-step feel.

How I'd count it out verbally: One and-a, two-and-a, three-and-a, four-and-a, one and-a, two-and-a, three-and-a, four-and-a.

-Edit- Going back and listening again, this seems to be what you're trying to do with it. I would try easing up on the release a little bit to see if it clears things up.


So there you go...my 2 cents for what they're worth <3.

I wouldn't go completely changing everything at once, but try doing it 1 element at a time, and do what YOU think sounds best.(Naturally ) But DO at least try going back and cleaning up some of the rhythm at least on that second synth I mentioned. I had 3 of my fellow musicians listen and confirm that overall it was messy and the first lead sound didn't quite fit into the warmth of the track.

quote:

Originally posted by theterran Was going to get around to this yesterday...^^ Here are my honest thoughts, so take what you will out of them. Sound that comes in briefly at 0:30 seems too harsh for your mix. Try toning it down with different cutoffs/attacks etc... and see if you can't calm it down. Otherwise I would consider replacing it / stripping it out entirely. The harmony that starts right after this, (30 seconds) starts with quarter note on the downbeat, 1/8th note on the "and of one" and then rolls into syncopated triplets. This is fine by itself, but once you tack on your 2nd syncopated rhythm everything turns to goo. At around 1:45 the second sound comes in. The rhythm just sounds wrong to me. It sounds as if it's trying to be a mix of on-beat and syncopation, and with 1 line already syncopated it should be one or the other I think. The first thing I would try doing with the second sound is turning your delay off and listening to it to check if it's in time. If it is in time, try adjusting the timing on the delay. Even if it has a delay, I think it should be in time one way or another, unless you're playing with experimental patterns. (Which I assume you're not) A suggestion for the quarter, 1/8th note => Triplet run is to tighten up the pattern. So maybe : quarter on beat one, 1/8th on the and of one, tri-po-let, tri-po-let,tri-po-let repeat back to quarter. This should give it a half-step feel. How I'd count it out verbally: One and-a, two-and-a, three-and-a, four-and-a, one and-a, two-and-a, three-and-a, four-and-a. -Edit- Going back and listening again, this seems to be what you're trying to do with it. I would try easing up on the release a little bit to see if it clears things up. So there you go...my 2 cents for what they're worth <3. I wouldn't go completely changing everything at once, but try doing it 1 element at a time, and do what YOU think sounds best.(Naturally ) But DO at least try going back and cleaning up some of the rhythm at least on that second synth I mentioned. I had 3 of my fellow musicians listen and confirm that overall it was messy and the first lead sound didn't quite fit into the warmth of the track.

Thanx for your help, very much appreciated.

Im a little to tired right now to get my head around all of this but I will definitely dig deeper into it when I have a little more energy.
I know very little music theory so I fully understand if some things I do don't make sense to people that do. I think I have to read up a bit just to understand everything you said

Again, thanx for your time and inputs

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