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BPM caounters...general info

OK< so I have a Numark Pro-SM1 mixer with my tables, as I got it at a very good price and it has been a great mixer for me just starting out. Here's the thing though....and remember...I'm new, so I'm just asking.

I know that on models from Pioneer, Behringer, etc the mixers come with BPM counters. Do these actually work for vinyl too, or just if you're mixing cd's? If so, are they accurate? If they ARE accurate, wouldn't it be a shoe-in to get that kind of mixer? I mean, that is practically doing the work (as far as getting the records to the right pitch, etc) for you, isn't it?

Let me know...thanks!!!!

P.S. Is there anything the Pioneer DJM-300 mixer wouldn't have that my Numark does?

bpm counters generally don't work that well, esp if you're spinning music with more complex rythms. also, you shouldn't use them because mixing by ear is more accurate and requires skill. Skill, which you will gain over time. Skill that you will need when you find yourself at a club that doesn't have bpm counters

i guess they work to within + or - 1 bpm... but honestly, you can get to that to basically just plain listening to the beats... so if you want to beatmatch it right, you still have fine tune it yourself... so no point in getting it, it may just screw you over...

bpm counters work with vinyl...
anyway I would recommend to learn mixing without them,
just use your ears and be patient
most of the times they are not as reliable as they should be

The Pioneer beatcounters are very accurate. It does get fooled at times however.

dont waste ur time on them....they are usless

The only use I can see for using beat counters is writing the bpm's on your records. The reason for this is you will know immediatly before putting a record on the table if it is compatible with the outgoing track. Some records will just not match with others because they are not meant to be played that slow or that fast.

If the outgoing track was playing at 130 BPM's and you tried to bring in a cued track that was a 120BPM record, the record you would be bringing would probably sound extremely strange being played so fast.

BPM counters can get you into trouble if you depend on them. As for beginners I would not even have a BPM counter around. You might be to tempted to use it when you get desperate.

P.S. If you want a BPM counter to just write the BPM's on the record, just download one and save the money for some more records.

my mixer does not have them... and its good to not have them.

you are better off without them, especially when your learning. it's just another thing to worry about when your actually mixing.

i've been considering redsounds's external beatcounter/headphone amp, but the only reason i'd like this is so I can easily get a BPM number for each record.. and write that on the record just so I know the approx BPM before i put the record on the deck, and for sorting my records. redsound's BPM meter is said to be quite accurate...

don't fool yourself into thinking you can use a BPM counter to match the tempos.. they are not THAT accurate.

-mer

I'm not trying to single MERiDiAN5i2 out. But his response touched upon everything I like to respond to.

quote:

Originally posted by MERiDiAN5i2 you are better off without them, especially when your learning. it's just another thing to worry about when your actually mixing.

When you're learning how to beat match, the first thing a person learns is timing. When to release the record as the other beat hits. Generally, people use the same records to practice on. From there a person moves on to different records. I feel a beatcounter can help a person learn timing b/c he does not have to worry about the bpm.

Another use is as you're training your ear to hear which track is faster, it's serves as a good confirmation tool.

quote:

Originally posted by MERiDiAN5i2 don't fool yourself into thinking you can use a BPM counter to match the tempos.. they are not THAT accurate.

I have a Pioneer DJM-600. Pioneer's beatcounter is extremely accurate. To prove the accuracy, I can beatmatch two tracks and mix it in using the beatcounter to match the bpm and the visual beat to match the beats without using headphones.

quote:

Originally posted by MERiDiAN5i2 i've been considering redsounds's external beatcounter/headphone amp, but the only reason i'd like this is so I can easily get a BPM number for each record.. and write that on the record just so I know the approx BPM before i put the record on the deck, and for sorting my records. redsound's BPM meter is said to be quite accurate...

This seems a bit hypocritical for people who says beatcounters dims yours skills. If you know the original bpm, all a person has to do is a little math to find the current bpm. Ideally a DJ can be given two random records and beatmatch them perfectly without knowing the bpm of either.

i'm not a fan of the bpm counter... at first i thought i wanted to get a mixer with the counters built in, or at least with the beat indicator lights... but then you become dependant on them, and when you step up to a mixer that doesn't have any sort of visual indication of bpm, you're screwed

however, on the flip side (no pun intended) you won't get as frustrated with a visual beat indicator, and you can learn beatmatching that more quickly

my mentor learned to beatmatch with his eyes before his ears
i learned with my ears though... you just figure out what sounds right and what doesn't through practice

and remember 4/4

quote:

Originally posted by ampburner bpm counters generally don't work that well, esp if you're spinning music with more complex rythms. also, you shouldn't use them because mixing by ear is more accurate and requires skill. Skill, which you will gain over time. Skill that you will need when you find yourself at a club that doesn't have bpm counters

Yes i totally agree. I used to feel that i was difficult to beatmatch abstract beginning of a song where there arent any beats or kicks that i can go on, but sometimes its almost second nature now

Before i needed a lot of concentration to beatmatch and would not be happy if people interupted me during a beatmatch because it took so long. Now i find that im trying to change while mixing and checking the headphones on and off to correct.

Total reliance on bpm counters is like using a wheelchair forever, you will never know how it feels to use your own legs and move around.

It's not that the BPM counter is totally wrong, but sometimes it takes a while for it to get updated.

What's much more useful is another indicator that comes with it, the beat-alignment lights. They're red and yellow from either side, and green in the middle. They show you whether the beats are matched roughly or exactly, and where the problem is (if any).

In the beginning they're a very good and useful tool, because even when you think the beats are perfectly matched, the yellow light will tell you they're not. And these lights are almost always right, unlike the BPM counter.

Of course, you can't rely on this help forever, eventually you have to learn to locate the problem and adjust the beats on your own.

before you use BPM counter, you should master beat matching w/ ear. then you can use BPM just as an aid to your mixing. to tell you the truth, i kinda like the whole BPM thing... its not a bad thing at all as long as you use it after you learn how to beatmatch with no hesitation. but yea... everyone is right... dont get comfortable with it.

My DJM600 has a beatcounter but I turn it off. My mixes are much more accurate by using my ear.

Hey All...

I don't personally use a BPM counter, but I've checked out the RedSound Units... any they are good! There is one model that is accurate to 0.1 BPM ;-)

The main reason that the DJM500/600 mixers have BPM counters, is so that the FX can be synced to the songs tempo ;-) Thats why there is only one of them ;-) (although it is assignable to either channel).

For FX, BPM counter are sweet... especially if you have an FX unit with Midi IN... then you can get a Red Sound BPM counter that generates Midi signals and feed it into the FX unit.. then all you delays, and other fx are beautifully synced ;-)

I do agree though, I'd like to get one to measure the tracks BPMs... so that I can label my tunes with BPMs too ;-) Will make mixing a bit nicer (but also a bit more technical, rather that artistic).

You could also use your PC to count the BPMs of all your tunes... I think there is some software "BPM Studio" that does it on the line in of a sound card ;-)

Cheers
Greg

I got Bpm counters on my mixer (JB System Beat4)
And I never used it to beatmatch. They are not really accurate and the sync led is moving lots of time (I didn't started with this mixer so I always mixed by hear). I only use it to know at how much bpm did I recorded my mix, that's all.

But when my friends are trying to mix on my equipment, it's easier for them, they can look bpm and try to beatmatch with the sync led on the green (they don't wannabe dj, they just wanna try a little bit)

awesome responses to this post...thanks alot you guys. I am definitely going to stay with the one I have for right now. It has served me well so far and has done the job plenty well, and learning to beatmatch by ear has been a really good challenge for me, but I'm actually starting to get the hang of it. Again, thanks to everyone...cheers!!!

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