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My Up And Coming Studio, Need Opinions..... *Update*
I have been djing for a couple of years now and have been saving all my money for a Music Production Studio. I have a dedicated room in my house that is soundproff (thanks dad 
) I have also genarated a list on the equipment that i neeed. The only questhtion i have is weather to get Pro Tools Or E-logic Platnium 5. Give me our opinions, comments on what, and what not to get. Any other info is appreciated.
Hardware:
Roland Fantom 76 note workstation.
AKAI MPC 4000 Sampler/Sequencer.
Roland XV-5080.
Korg TRITON-Rack Module
Software/Hardware:
Pro Tools Mbox
E-Logic Platnium 5
Thats all lol 
looks good to me
Looks like a bunch of sample playback synths. Where's the beef. This would be a great setup if you are planning on making Nsyncs next big hit though.
DROOL Akai's new MPC...buy that and you'll just HAVE to perform live dude...
Anyways, I too kind of miss something that can make ripping leads, a nice VA.
I'd go for Logic, for pro-tools to get some decent functionality I think you'll have to spend way too much
[edit] oh no forget that, logic doesn't support PC platform anymore, so unless you got a MAC, don't go with logic [/edit]
| quote: |
| Originally posted by FuzzyGreen Looks like a bunch of sample playback synths. Where's the beef. This would be a great setup if you are planning on making Nsyncs next big hit though. |
It's better if you get some virtual moddelling synths. These synths produce warmer and fatter sounds that are more appropriate for dance music. Synths like:
The Acces Virus
The Nord Lead and the Nord Modular
The Microwave XT and the Q
The Novation Supernova
For Pro Tools will will need dedicated hardware, but the sound quality will be very good.
Logic is just a normal sequenser that only needs a computer, and it is good for producing.
I've heard about the acess virus and the nice sounds it makes. Do i need this in addition to all my other equipment, or could i replace it with something that i dont really need from my original list. ?
| quote: |
| Originally posted by BenB It's better if you get some virtual moddelling synths. These synths produce warmer and fatter sounds that are more appropriate for dance music. Synths like: The Acces Virus The Nord Lead and the Nord Modular The Microwave XT and the Q The Novation Supernova For Pro Tools will will need dedicated hardware, but the sound quality will be very good. Logic is just a normal sequenser that only needs a computer, and it is good for producing. |
nice that akai sampler isn't used a lot for hip hop production? the 2000xl anyway
replace the roland fantom by a Virus then.
and if you're just using a pc-based sequencer, replace the MPC by a Z4 or Z8
I would do the same, but I would replace the Triton also. I only use these kind of synths for pads, strings, and piano's etc so I would get another virtual modelling synth thats more appropriate for dance, or add it to my setup if I could afford it.
I'm assuming the Akai is pretty expensive. I say you take that out, aswell as the Fantom, and replace with a virus or equivilant synth.
Why are you only considering pro tools and logic? There are also cubase and sonar still, which are very good sequencers.
And make sure you have yourself a good, fast, stable computer to run everyting on. I recommend (if using pc) windows 2000 or XP with atleast 512 RAM, if you want serious stability. You will also need a pretty powerful cpu, to support everything.
And you will definately need a good quality sound card, unless you already have one. The sounds from all your hardware, when recorded to your pc, will lack some depth if you are just using a standard commercial-grade card, as I found out originally.
I just heard about this:
Looks good to me, aslong as the quality is as good as they say.
You will also need to make sure you have a midi device that can support all the midi chanels of your synths, keyboards, samplers, etc, with leaving a few slots open for future additions.
And you will need some kind of mixer, for all your hardware to run into your computer. You may have a good enough mixer from your DJing, but I will assume you dont. You can either get a normal mixer, or you can get an internal mixer, to use with your sound card.
For example, the M-Audio Delta 1010 sound card has 5 stereo inputs.. so you can plug all your gear into here, and adjust levels etc on your computer.
The only problem, is that it is very expensive, and its hard to add additional inputs if you need to expand. So a hardware mixer, with high enough sound quality, would be just as good, if not better.
Hope this helps
Hi, this is my first post on here but i'v been checking the site out for about a year. I produce/DJ as well. if you want to make trance, that's DEFINATELY not the gear for you. FuzzyGreen wasn't knocking you on anything. what i think he meant is since all that stuff is sample based, you'll have a VERY hard time making trance tracks as anything sample based is better for "real" (physically modelled) sounds. you don't have nearly as much control over the sound as you would with say a VA (Virtual Analog) Synth. Also stay FAR away from Pro Tools and Logic Audio.
Pro-tools is WAAAAAY overpriced. With the computing speed we have nowadays, we have enough native (built into the computer) CPU power where DSP cards aren't needed nearly as much. if you needed more power you can always upgrade the computer rather than spend a shitload on more Pro-rools DSP cards just for enough power to run 3-4 more plugins simultaneously. still, with a high end AMD athalon system, i doubt you will need more power for a LONG time. i say AMD because Pentium 4's suffer from something called a Denormalization problem where the CPU spikes and renders many plugins like Halion, Attack, Karlette, etc, useless. There is a work around for it but it's on the plug in designers shoulders to implement n that will take quite a while. Not all p4's exhibit this behaviour but a lot do.. i don't think you wanna take that chance now do u?
sooooo where was i..oh yah no Pro-Tools...No Logic either as they are discontinuing PC support as of september (hence the sudden price drops of late). I'd say go with Cubase VST 32 5 and you'll get SX for free..you get to keep both programs so you can use VST 32 until SX is matured and fully stable..then use them both on two computers (if you reallly want that much power) through what they call VST system Link. SX will also have OMF (Pro-tools file type) support so that you can send SX songs to pro-tools for additional work, if you ever need to..i doubt you will but for compatibility's sake, it's being implemented.
Synth wise i'd go with a Novation Supernova 2 (get the version with the highest amount of voices that you can afford), a Waldorf Q (same thing with the voices), Access Virus C (again same thing), Clavia Nord Lead 3, an RME HDSP soundcard with the Mutli-Face breakout unit (best sound card company around with best driver support (which is VERY important), a NON usb Midi Interface (a lot are very buggy) n USB is a PCI bus hog n a half, and a load of plugins like the Waves, Antares,etc..(whatever you can afford). for more "sounds" i'd go with the Sonic synth plug-in plus any E-Roms you would want (for sample based "real" sounds and the like and ready to play sounds), Native Instruments Pro-53, RGC Audio Pentagon, Bitshift Audo Phatmatik Pro, FXpansion DR008 or Native instruments Kontact, etc.. There is SOOO much out there so you have to go through the plug-in's available and decide what's right for you.. point being that ALL this won't cost you a 1/3 or maybe even a 1/4 wha a pro-tools setup (that can't do half as much) would. also don't forget a sound/wav editor. my personal favorite is wavelab.
in addition you'll need a good mixer. i like the Mackie VLZ series for the best bang for the buck, without compromising quality. For a digital hardware surface, you need to look around as i don't have one so i don't know much about them. i know this much though, stay away from the Steinberg houston until they work the kinks out of it and the logic control surface cause..well i already explained. you'll need studio monitors as well. for nearfields i'd recommend the Event PS8's, the mackie hr824's,etc.. you'll need mic's (if u wanna record vocals/your own samples), midi and audio cables, possibly patch bay's, etc.. it all depends on how complcated you wanna make it. i'd advice you to start out slow and learn to push all your gear to it's limits rather than just buy a bunch of stuff n only use them half assed...you'll be a world over better if you know how to use your gear to a tee.
the most important thing of it all is buy your computer from a well known and established computer DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) company. trying to get logic, cubse, etc running right is half the battle n that all depends on specific hardware components within the computer.. you'd be surprised how picky these programs can be. you also want them to configure and install Cubase or whatever you decide to get, if you haven't had any experience doing so. ALL this won't cost you a 1/3 or maybe even a 1/4 of what a pro-tools setup (that can't do half as much) would. i apoloize if i'm speaking too plainly but i'm assuming your just starting out so as to make sure you understand what i mean, i try n clarify thngs. plan on doing do a LOT, i'd say at least a month to 3, of research as a lot of gear doesn't play nice with other gear (computer hardware, midi interfaces, sound cards, control surfaces, etc..) if you want to be able to be able to do pro quality productions, your going to have to put in a shitload of time and effort into studying, researching, learning, etc... damn this is getting long so i'm gonna shut my big yap now. lol. hope this helps.
oh n by the way, i love this site. you people know your shit. glad to be aboard finally. (you'll have to excuse my typing, i'm at work n doin this inbetween running around)
*applauds* Very informative MekTek. Cheers!
it's not really a TOTAL non-trance setup. A Roland XV is a very decent allrounder with much upgradeability thru expansion cards. And you'll need an allrounder (even tho it's a rompler) because there's a phat lead, a phat bass, and then a bucket of other sounds that don't need to be fat or anything, just back things up. Every setup needs a sampler, especially if there's no dedicated drumbox. The triton may be obsolete (however more stuff does give you a broader range of sounds). The akai's sequencer is probably obsolete, as you're talking about logic and protools. So the way I see it, good would be sampler + allrounder + VA. And mixer of course.
Instead of getting both the fantom and the xv...just get the fantom since they use the same sound engines (the fantom dosen't have a few the xv has)unless you think you need a synth with 128 note polyphony...With the extra cash get an anolog modeling synth...
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Pjotr G it's not really a TOTAL non-trance setup. A Roland XV is a very decent allrounder with much upgradeability thru expansion cards. And you'll need an allrounder (even tho it's a rompler) because there's a phat lead, a phat bass, and then a bucket of other sounds that don't need to be fat or anything, just back things up. Every setup needs a sampler, especially if there's no dedicated drumbox. The triton may be obsolete (however more stuff does give you a broader range of sounds). The akai's sequencer is probably obsolete, as you're talking about logic and protools. So the way I see it, good would be sampler + allrounder + VA. And mixer of course. |
theirs plenty of demo's around so try things out n see what you like. just remember that just cause it costs more, or is hardware, it doesnt mean it's better.
where to uy
ok, after reading everyones posts i was wondering where the best place would be to purchase the equipment?? Ialso have a couple of queshtions about the analog synth, since i never used one before. How do they differ from a digital synth ??
generally you have more control over an analogue synth (or virtual analogue) which means you have more paramaters to control. You also get a generally different "type" of sound, more like the sounds that you find in trance music. In my opinion an analogue/virtual analogue synth is the most important part of a trance producing studio.
For purchasing equipment, I'd go either with a local retailer, or ebay.
I always get great deals off ebay, like my supernova pro for $1800 CND including shipping. and my pcv-275 for $400 US including shipping.. You can usually find new and used gear on there.
I see your in NYC, like me, so you can check out Sam Ash on 48th st or i'd say take a trip to the guitar center on northern blvd. i forget the exact street but it's between 40-60. they usually have more setup to play with. you can call information, get the digits n ask them for the addy n directions. i'd say go there n play around with all the gear n see what suits you. then you can purchase from musiciansfriend.com. you'll save money on sales tax n it's the online "store" for guitar center, as they own it, though most of the workers don't even know this...GC for some reason doesn't want people to know. i guess it's cause a lot of times the musicians frined prices are lower than theirs since it's internet based and theres less overhead. synthplanet.com usually has MUCH better prices on gear than most but it's not american based so for support you'd have to deal with the out the U.S. distributors for support.. that's a pain in the ass n not worth it when your working on a track then have to wait eons for overseas support.
Analog Vs. Digital
analog synths use analog circuits to create the sine,pulse,square,etc waves in real time. the filters, lfo's, etc on a pure analog synth do this all in real time as well. this is what a analog sine wave
digital synths/Virtual analog modeling synths (VA's) use DSP chips to model characteristics of analog circuitry. it uses digital algorythms to try and recreate the behaviour of real analog oscillators, vco's, vcf's, lfo's, filters, etc. this is represented by ones and zero's digitally.
the analog is the top one n digital the bottom one..you can see the difference plainly in the two:
in a nutshell, as you can see, the digital sinewave is more "stepped"
and not as smooth as it's analog counterpart. this equates to a "warmer sound" for analog units and a "harsher" sound for the digital units. since the digital still needs to use 1's and 0's to try and recreate/plot the analog sine wave, it isn't as smooth as an analog oscillator as it isn't exactly like it..it's more jagged as the points are plotted rather than it being a continous analog wave. the general consensus is that the analog units sound warmer and fuller, some have built in arpeggiators or step sequencers so old units like the moog's, sequential circuits (prophets), roland TR808, 909, TB303, Korg MS20, 50, etc..along with a lot of analog effects like the roland space echo are much sought after. the bad part about analog circuitry is a lot doesn't have midi but rather CV (though many can be retrofitted, with midi, for a reasonable price). They go out of tune and need to be retuned often (though this is for the most part a button to press), take time to warm up, are succeptable to temperature variants and as such the sound will change if the room it's used in is hotter or colder, cost a lot, etc.. there are trade-offs for using analog gear but the sound...well IMO, is well worth the trouble. for a bit more of an indepth explanation, check out this article: http://www.iaekm.org/archive/p11.html
this must confuse you as it did me when i first learned all this stuff so i'll try n clarify how it would impact what to buy...analog synths are great to add flavor and to learn the basics of analog synthesis. if you have the money i'd say buy an anlog synth or two in addition to whatever your getting..something like maybe a sequential circuits pro 1, Moog Rogue, Roland SH101, Juno 106, etc..to learn with n when your more comfortable with analog go for the big guns like Moogs' minimoog n memorymoog+, Sequentials' Pro 5, Rolands' Jupiter 8, Oberheims' Matrix 12, Roland SH7, etc.. i'd say go with some VA's that suit your taste n maybe 1 or 2 analog beauty's to learn on and hear the difference for yourself (though "learning on" doesn't mean they won't still sound great). for some info, sound bytes, pic's, etc. on more analog synths check out http://www.vintagesynth.com and http://www.synthmuseum.com you can find a lot on ebay, if u wanna buy any. you can find average prices n do searches from http://www.prepal.com
i hope that clarify's some stuff for you. i know how confusing all this stuff can be at first. if u wanna know anything else, feel free to ask.
Thanks everyone for your support, you have helped clarify LOTS of things. Any info is appreciated.
*Update*
ok, After doing lots of research and with some help from ta members and local music stores i have generated a new list. Tell me what you think.
P.S. I know this guy is ripping me off alot, i just used him to help me get a list and i can find 3/4 of the eq listed here for half price. 
well. you don't need the "wave burner Pro", thats for sure. Waldorf drum module?... I recommend you use software for drums (from my own experience). Table top drum pads? nah, get rid of that one quick. Get way cheaper monitors. A nice pair of bookshelfs and a sub can cost half that, and still sound amazing. Audio cables for 150? ... .. If you get professional 1/4" I can see that, but midi cables cost $5 at my local music store, and non-professional 1/4s costs like $10. CND. so .. you can save on those.
and supernova? I recommend (if possible) save the money on buying a Supernova rather than Supernova 2, and then buy a pro upgrade for 44 voice polyphony. there is little diff between the 1 and 2, besides a vocoder and a slightly different layout. same sounds.
I think this looks better.
I have the VLZ 1402 mixer, but I have not enough channels to edit my sounds. I would have the same problem if I would buy the VLZ 1642, and I think it would be the same for you. Maybe it's better to buy a mixer that's a bit bigger than that, like the CFX 20. I believe (I'm not sure) it's just like the VLZ 1642, but it is just a bit bigger and has effects on it.
I don't know what kind of sound card the RME is, but if you're going to buy the EXS24 (wich sounds great) you will need a sound card that has multiple outputs so you can edit your samples on your mixer. Or you need to edit your samples in your computer if your going to buy a soundcard that has no multiple outs.
Like DJ Chrono said, I think you won't need the akai MPD16 because you can program your drums in your sequenser wich works fine.
I think that if you are going to buy a burner wich comes wich burning software you won't need the wave burner pro.
You synths are good but you will need to expand your voices, because with the number you have now you can't use enough sounds for you're tracks.
I have heard the mackies HR824's are great but the Beringers would do the job too.
sony mdr-v700dj's for producing? LOL! I like how they look, thats about it. 
I have heard the CFX 20 I mentioned isn't so appropriate for the home studio. But I believe I was wrong about the possibylities of the VLZ 1642, and it looks like it has enough channels anyhow. Maybe someone else knows something about it. Can you please let me know if it has enough channels? I'm looking for a new mixer too.
Ben
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