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Posted by chlola on May-09-2010 04:30:

God

Do you believe in God?

If so... please explain to me why he lets a 17 year old boy with a heart of gold, die of liver failure the day before his senior prom ....

Posted by FuzzQi on May-09-2010 04:32:

Christians would say something like "God works in mysterious ways"

Posted by shaw on May-09-2010 04:34:

Re: God

quote:
Originally posted by chlola
Do you believe in God?

If so... please explain to me why he lets a 17 year old boy with a heart of gold, die of liver failure the day before his senior prom ....

because he touched himself at night.

Posted by igottaknow on May-09-2010 04:34:

if there is a god he doesn't get involved in our daily lives. so would you be more happy if he died a day after his prom? none of us control when we die unless we commit suicide. if you haven't noticed life doesn't happen according to our desires, natural disasters and yes even death.

Posted by Lira on May-09-2010 04:36:

By the way, though I don't believe there is a God, the death of this guy is no argument against his existence. If anything, it's an argument against an all-loving omnipotent God... but theists can't really agree on whether or not God is this way.

quote:
Originally posted by FuzzQi
Christians would say something like "God works in mysterious ways"

God Cites 'Moving In Mysterious Ways' As Motive For Killing Of 3000 Papua New Guineans

Posted by chlola on May-09-2010 04:42:

Re: Re: God

quote:
Originally posted by shaw
because he touched himself at night.

You are so going to, HELL.

Posted by FuzzQi on May-09-2010 04:44:

Re: Re: Re: God

quote:
Originally posted by chlola
You are so going to, HELL.

Posted by shaw on May-09-2010 04:44:

Re: Re: Re: God

quote:
Originally posted by chlola
You are so going to, HELL.

1. I currently have no plans to touch myself.
2. That is not my name.

Posted by Fledz on May-09-2010 04:46:

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus

Posted by kadomony on May-09-2010 04:50:

"God" is not a being, but rather "being" itself.

Posted by Lira on May-09-2010 04:54:

quote:
Originally posted by Lira

Is this working for anyone?

Posted by infiniteJEST on May-09-2010 04:55:

quote:
Originally posted by Lira
Is this working for anyone?

wat

Posted by Sunsnail on May-09-2010 04:55:

sounds like you knew the boy. sorry

Posted by Lews on May-09-2010 04:55:

No.

Posted by Halcyon+On+On on May-09-2010 05:16:

quote:
Originally posted by Lira
If anything, it's an argument against an all-loving omnipotent God...

Is it, though? Perhaps it defeats the idea of an anesthetizing watchdog in the sky (at least temporarily), but is suffering not a vital component to even love as we humans know it? If anything, the reclamation of one's life into the folds of an unknown beyond merely confirms the presence of something that creates as well as 'destroys', so far as our shortsighted understanding of spiritual return is concerned. Atheism as the kneejerk response to hurt seems to me just as sad an industry as theism in the same scenario. Yes, individual understanding is all too often the over-development of emotional pathways, but no side of the debate precludes existence, it can only present evidence at the behest of human conceit - something that is probably far more real to me than any God.

Posted by The17sss on May-09-2010 05:17:

Re: God

Posted by Lira on May-09-2010 05:21:

quote:
Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
Is it, though? Perhaps it defeats the idea of an anesthetizing watchdog in the sky (at least temporarily), but is suffering not a vital component to even love as we humans know it? If anything, the reclamation of one's life into the folds of an unknown beyond merely confirms the presence of something that creates as well as 'destroys', so far as our shortsighted understanding of spiritual return is concerned. Atheism as the kneejerk response to hurt seems to me just as sad an industry as theism in the same scenario. Yes, individual understanding is all too often the over-development of emotional pathways, but no side of the debate precludes existence, it can only present evidence at the behest of human conceit - something that is probably far more real to me than any God.

Like I said, it can be an argument, but it's far from being the smoking gun that killed this sort of God.

I'm not sure I agree with you when you say that "the reclamation of one's life into the folds of an unknown beyond merely confirms the presence of something that creates as well as 'destroys'" because, given the physical reality behind the creation of life and its extinction, there's no need to postulate the existence of an external force.

In any case, I too think that not believing in this God is a poor excuse for being an adamant atheist because this is hardly the only possibility: there are tons of "Gods" in monotheism, paradoxical though it is.

Posted by tubularbills on May-09-2010 05:28:

it was his time dude.

Posted by Halcyon+On+On on May-09-2010 05:44:

quote:
Originally posted by Lira
I'm not sure I agree with you when you say that "the reclamation of one's life into the folds of an unknown beyond merely confirms the presence of something that creates as well as 'destroys'" because, given the physical reality behind the creation of life and its extinction, there's no need to postulate the existence of an external force.

Oh, indeed. But what of the very real, very observable force of death in the first place? Does something that irrefutably governs us completely out of our own control not deserve any assignment to conscious or unconscious consideration? Agree with it or not, the fact that many human beings consider God to be a very real presence in their lives is all that is required for existence. Otherwise it's like saying democracy does not exist because you can't kill it or fuck it or see it - of course you can argue that any civic conception is merely a mask worn upon another idea, and that democracy is a sham because it does not work or something, etc. But it certainly does not defeat the idea in the least. Yes, traditional notions of a conscious entity are extremely flawed, but what else can we call something that by its nature would transcend our conventions of consciousness in the first place? And can have very real manifestations in our every day life despite the skepticism of people who, ironically, believe in its inexistence?

Because, truly, it's not about an 'external' force in the least, and I am sure that most reasonably self-aware theists would say the same - if there is a God, it is a presence that courses through us all, and alienates no form of life whatsoever. Belief is a dwarf amidst the slow lapping of rocks before an inferential ocean of existence we can perceive just fine, albeit asymmetrically.

Posted by Joss Weatherby on May-09-2010 05:47:

because he wanted to be fodder for a chlolara thread

Posted by Halcyon+On+On on May-09-2010 05:48:

quote:
Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
chlolara

Posted by saluyamo on May-09-2010 07:41:

Re: God

Posted by infiniteJEST on May-09-2010 08:26:

quote:
Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
Because, truly, it's not about an 'external' force in the least, and I am sure that most reasonably self-aware theists would say the same - if there is a God, it is a presence that courses through us all, and alienates no form of life whatsoever. Belief is a dwarf amidst the slow lapping of rocks before an inferential ocean of existence we can perceive just fine, albeit asymmetrically.

So... pantheism?

Posted by D-res on May-09-2010 09:07:

quote:
The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. It must be so. If there ever is a time of plenty, this very fact will automatically lead to an increase in the population until the natural state of starvation and misery is restored. In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.

-Richard Dawkins

Posted by Comrade Stalin on May-09-2010 09:10:

Re: God

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