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-- Is there any possibility of "realtime" normalizing/leveling...???

Is there any possibility of "realtime" normalizing/leveling...???

dear all,

often i like to test different compressors on a mixer channel and i always need to the adjust compressor output-level to compare between the original (untouched) signal and the compressed signal.

it would be great of there was something like a "realtime normalizer" which adjusts the output level to a specific rms-value. i found a freeware plugin named "rider" from sound consulting but it adjusts the output level very S-L-O-W (which is intented by the creators of the plugin, but does not serve my purpose exactly).

is there any audiounit-plugin similar to this, but with a much faster response? i'm working with logic 9, maybe there is such a feature integrated and i'm simply to blind to find it?

or is the use of an expander/compressor/limiter the only solution?

thanks a lot in advance!

waves vocal rider.
Alot of compressors have auto gain as well. You really should be automating the volume level yourself tho. It is the best solution.

FabFilter Pro-C
and otiumFX Compadre are both great compressors with (optional) auto gain.

quote:

Originally posted by Morvan FabFilter Pro-C and otiumFX Compadre are both great compressors with (optional) auto gain.

But, the auto-gain features on Pro-C (and probably the other one, but I don't know for sure) aren't working in real-time, as the OP is looking for. All the auto-gain feature does is determine the approximate amount of gain that is lost during the compression stage, and increases the output level by that amount. It's essentially just a dummy version of make-up gain. But, it's a static setting that doesn't work in real-time the way something like Vocal Rider does.

could you not put the compressors you want on different group channels and route the sound you want to each one. then use the send/return levels to control it? or the on/off switches on the send track to instantly hear the difference? just an idea

what he is describing is pretty much any compressor with fast attack fast release and low threshold and high ration. Add a limiter to the chain and your audio will l.ook like a square. I have no idea why anyone in their right mind would want to do this. This retarded mixing technique is discussed at length in the Oxford Companion to Mixing.

And StudioBob, your mastering stock , as far as i'm concerned has plummet like a tarred eagle. Honestly , you should be the first to tell him what he is trying to do is absolutely ridiculous.

quote:

Originally posted by Mad for Brad what he is describing is pretty much any compressor with fast attack fast release and low threshold and high ration. Add a limiter to the chain and your audio will l.ook like a square. I have no idea why anyone in their right mind would want to do this. This retarded mixing technique is discussed at length in the Oxford Companion to Mixing. And StudioBob, your mastering stock , as far as i'm concerned has plummet like a tarred eagle. Honestly , you should be the first to tell him what he is trying to do is absolutely ridiculous.

Well my impression was what he wanted to do was listen to the sound of different compressors on one signal so he can hear the difference easily without f**King up his gain structure each time he swops the comp over. maybe i misread it. But i didnt see him mentioning the settings on the compressors...

quote:

Originally posted by studiobob Well my impression was what he wanted to do was listen to the sound of different compressors on one signal so he can hear the difference easily without f**King up his gain structure each time he swops the comp over.

absolutely correct is was looking for something similar to the "rider" plugin, just much more faster in response. i often work with the uad-compressors and they do not have something like "auto makeup", and also other plugins often change the output gain (for example different settings of a flanger or chorus) and i for me it would be great if i could step through the different settings without re-adjusting the gain.

quote:

Originally posted by dforce absolutely correct is was looking for something similar to the "rider" plugin,

that is the definition of a compressor.

quote:

Originally posted by Mad for Brad that is the definition of a compressor.

in my understanding a compressor lowers all signals which reach a specific threshold, not ALL signals in general. a signal which reaches the threshold is lowered by the defined ratio, e.g. when the ratio is 1:2, the signal is lowered by 50%. the attack and release settings also affect the output signal. so the signals _below_ the threshold keep untouched while the signals which _exceed_ the threshold will be lowered by the given compression ratio.

as long as the compression ratio is not set to 1:1, the output signal of a compressor is different from a signal where only the gain has been changed. when you look at the "activity" gauge of a compressor, you can also see it constantly changing (as long you don't compress a sine wave or something like that)

i am looking for a plugin to automatically lower the gain without changing the overall waveform, keeping it's original dynamics.

you aren't keeping the original dynamics if you are changing the gain. A compressor is what you are describing. Just put an rms meter after if you want to be sure you are hitting a certain target value. I don't know what else to say. The whole creation of the compressor was so that engineers did not have to manually ride as they now had a tool that did pretty much that put faster.

quote:

Originally posted by dforce when you look at the "activity" gauge of a compressor, you can also see it constantly changing (as long you don't compress a sine wave or something like that)

Depending on which gauge or meter you're referring to, you may see it "changing", but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is compressing. Most meters on compressors will show you the input, output, or amount of compression being applied. The input and output meters will always show activity as long as there is a signal, but it won't be compressing the signal until it exceeds the threshold value. The compression meter will only show activity in response to audio that exceeds the threshold (i.e., is being compressed).

All that aside, I wonder if what you're really looking for is something that doesn't color the sound when it is being compressed, or flatten out the inner dynamics (i.e., the dynamics within the range of what is being compressed) - I believe that is what you mean when you say that you don't want something that "changes the waveform". A compressor's job is to flatten out those dynamics as soon as they exceed the threshold, so if you have a part that is loud enough to trigger the compressor, but then gets even louder and the dynamics bounce around at levels exceeding the threshold, the compressor will likely squash the whole section, losing those inner dynamics, and probably audibly color the sound, particularly during the loudest passages. Your only option that I can see to avoid that is to ride the fader, or use something like Vocal Rider, to give you more control over the dynamics.

Personally, I would just manually record the automation (or draw it) and take the time to get the levels exactly where you want them, rather than letting the software decide for you. You may still want to use a little bit of compression though, and a good compressor with a look-ahead function on it could be useful.

quote:

Originally posted by dforce i am looking for a plugin to automatically lower the gain without changing the overall waveform, keeping it's original dynamics.

This is what a fader does.

Once you start limiting, compressing, or level riding you are changing the original dynamics.

real time normalizing requires real analogue hardware, tubes ect

lol

not sure if that was a joke. There is no such thing as real time. Real time is what we would consider less time than it takes our senses to notice. Computers can do that. Stop with the analog tube bull shit.

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux Once you start limiting, compressing, or level riding you are changing the original dynamics.

[right] Once you start limiting you are changing the original dynamics
[right] Once you start ompressing you are changing the original dynamics
[wrong] Once you start level riding you are changing the original dynamics

You're wrong on the third point. Changing the volume by riding a fader implies you change the signal, thus altering the dynamics. The one is inherent to the other.

But it alteres them statically, not dynamically was what he meant.

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