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Mixer solution

As i'm about to dip my toe into teh world of hardware synths again i'm wondering what you guys do for routing?

Last time I had a bit o' hardware I had it running through a Yamaha MW12cx mixer but that was a bit noisy.

I'll have a Saffire 40 shortly but even that won't have enough inputs. I'll be picking up a JV1080 soon (nom) and seeing as that has 6 outputs alone I can see mono channels being chomped up quickly.

I guess i'm after numerous quality unputs rather than features so maybe an A&H Zed24 would fit teh bill nicely as it looks like it sends audio over USB too.

Re: Mixer solution

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Originally posted by tehlord As i'm about to dip my toe into teh world of hardware synths again i'm wondering what you guys do for routing? Last time I had a bit o' hardware I had it running through a Yamaha MW12cx mixer but that was a bit noisy. I'll have a Saffire 40 shortly but even that won't have enough inputs. I'll be picking up a JV1080 soon (nom) and seeing as that has 6 outputs alone I can see mono channels being chomped up quickly. I guess i'm after numerous quality unputs rather than features so maybe an A&H Zed24 would fit teh bill nicely as it looks like it sends audio over USB too.

Why not just get a multiple input audio interface? There are many on the market, and most have been discussed at length on here.

Quality is a subjective term, because it depends on your budget. I mean, you can go with a MOTU 2408 at ~$900 (PCIe) and get 8 analog in. Or go with a 24 IO and get 24 analog in. The A/D is meh, but probably good enough.

Or you can go bigger. An Apogee AD-16X had 16 channels coming in but it retails at $3,200 PLUS you need a way to hook it up (X-Firewire or Symphony system), so that tacks on another $200-$1,000. However, the conversion quality is MUCH higher in that unit, hence why the extra expense. Probably over kill for most, but I'm just listing it here to show the differences.

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Originally posted by Eric J Why not just get a multiple input audio interface?

That's what I do. I've had my MOTU 8282mkII for years and it gets the job done nicely. It replaced my old 16-track Soundcraft mixer and audio interface setup, which freed up a lot of desk space and just generally made my workflow more efficient. YMMV.

Re: Re: Re: Mixer solution

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Originally posted by Eric J Why not just get a multiple input audio interface? There are many on the market, and most have been discussed at length on here. Quality is a subjective term, because it depends on your budget. I mean, you can go with a MOTU 2408 at ~$900 (PCIe) and get 8 analog in. Or go with a 24 IO and get 24 analog in. The A/D is meh, but probably good enough. Or you can go bigger. An Apogee AD-16X had 16 channels coming in but it retails at $3,200 PLUS you need a way to hook it up (X-Firewire or Symphony system), so that tacks on another $200-$1,000. However, the conversion quality is MUCH higher in that unit, hence why the extra expense. Probably over kill for most, but I'm just listing it here to show the differences.

Perhaps I should have worded the question differently?

I suppose I'm really just looking for a load of inputs and made a guess at a mixing desk as a solution, i'd much rather not have one though!

The Motu looks useful. Apogee is no good for me on a PC.

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Originally posted by cryophonik That's what I do. I've had my MOTU 8282mkII for years and it gets the job done nicely. It replaced my old 16-track Soundcraft mixer and audio interface setup, which freed up a lot of desk space and just generally made my workflow more efficient. YMMV.

Do you not find you run out of inputs though or are you just running stereo outs from all your synths and recording one channel at a time?

I'm looking at the Steinberg MR816 now as I've been reliably informed it has superb pre's and I'm a Cubase addict anyway.

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Originally posted by tehlord Do you not find you run out of inputs though or are you just running stereo outs from all your synths and recording one channel at a time?

I run my four synths' main outs into the MOTU's 4 analog stereo input pairs and I run my channel strip (JoeMeek OneQ) into the MOTU's digital input. I don't use the sub outputs on any of my synths - I've tried it before and it always ends up being a waste of inputs since I rarely have the need to simultaneously record more than one part from each synth. If/when I do, it doesn't take long to re-route some outs/ins, or, more often, I just record each part separately. Also, my Virus TI2 is connected both via USB (for up to 3 stereo inputs) and via analog for a total of 4 simultaneous stereo inputs if I need it.

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Originally posted by cryophonik I run my four synths' main outs into the MOTU's 4 analog stereo input pairs and I run my channel strip (JoeMeek OneQ) into the MOTU's digital input. I don't use the sub outputs on any of my synths - I've tried it before and it always ends up being a waste of inputs since I rarely have the need to simultaneously record more than one part from each synth. If/when I do, it doesn't take long to re-route some outs/ins, or, more often, I just record each part separately. Also, my Virus TI2 is connected both via USB (for up to 3 stereo inputs) and via analog for a total of 4 simultaneous stereo inputs if I need it.

Aha cool. I think my head was still in software mode with multiple outs and running all at the same time, but in reality that AIN'T gonna happen

Am I right in thinking an interface with an ADAT connector can hook up something like the Behringer ADA8000 for more inputs if I really needed them later on?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Mixer solution

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Originally posted by tehlord I suppose I'm really just looking for a load of inputs and made a guess at a mixing desk as a solution, i'd much rather not have one though!

A multiple input audio interface is what you need, then.

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Originally posted by tehlord The Motu looks useful. Apogee is no good for me on a PC.

Those are just two solutions, mind you. There are multiple offerings from other companies that work on a PC. For higher end A/D the SSL Alphalink comes to mind.

Keep in mind that price and channel count matter when it comes to the quality of the A/D in each of these units. A cheap unit with a high channel counts is going to have crappier A/D usually. I'd say MOTU is at the bottom of the "acceptable" list for A/D converter quality. They are certainly affordable and reliable for the price. If you have never used anything multichannel, then that should probably be OK for starting out.

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Originally posted by tehlord Do you not find you run out of inputs though or are you just running stereo outs from all your synths and recording one channel at a time? I'm looking at the Steinberg MR816 now as I've been reliably informed it has superb pre's and I'm a Cubase addict anyway.

Also, don't discount the usefulness of a patchbay for these types of scenarios. A well designed patchbay solution can easily allow you to route and mix inputs and outputs as you see fit. It is a cheap and convenient way to "virtually" increase the number of channels you can bring into your DAW from outside hardware.

And, don't discount the importance of having a limited number of inputs. Too many inputs results in the desire to own too many synths, which results in large amounts of expendable income wasted, marital stress, drunkedness and debauchery, catastrophic oil spills, etc.

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Originally posted by cryophonik And, don't discount the importance of having a limited number of inputs. Too many inputs results in the desire to own too many synths, which results in large amounts of expendable income wasted, marital stress, drunkedness and debauchery, catastrophic oil spills, etc.

yeah, that too.

LMAO thanks chaps (sorry, dudes)

About that ADAT thing, that is a digital solution for extra inputs at a later date if necessary right?

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Originally posted by Eric J I'd say MOTU is at the bottom of the "acceptable" list for A/D converter quality. They are certainly affordable and reliable for the price. If you have never used anything multichannel, then that should probably be OK for starting out.

Yeah, I agree. MOTU makes great units for the price, but there are better options if you've got more to spend. RME makes great units, but can cost nearly twice as much as MOTU for comparable models.

BTW, Geoff, I know that you do some live recording - do you need/want something with built-in preamps for recording live with microphones, or just line inputs for synths? If you already have your own standalone preamp(s) or channel strip(s), you'll need to factor those into your input equation.

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Originally posted by cryophonik Yeah, I agree. MOTU makes great units for the price, but there are better options if you've got more to spend. RME makes great units, but can cost nearly twice as much as MOTU for comparable models.

Totally. Really, once you get past these "all in one" type solutions such as the MOTU offerings, then your options really expand because you can customize your hardware channels with various types of A/D or D/A converters in separate units and front end these with specific preamps, compressors, etc. This is really where a patchbay comes in handy.

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Originally posted by cryophonik BTW, Geoff, I know that you do some live recording - do you need/want something with built-in preamps for recording live with microphones, or just line inputs for synths? If you already have your own standalone preamp(s) or channel strip(s), you'll need to factor those into your input equation.

There really is a good amount of options once you get into this arena. I see a lot of Focusrite ISA units being used as front end preamps. I'm personally very interested in the Vintech Audio Neve recreations. I heard the X73 and the 473, and WOW, they sound fantastic, but they cost.

buy a synth with usb.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mixer solution

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Originally posted by cryophonik BTW, Geoff, I know that you do some live recording - do you need/want something with built-in preamps for recording live with microphones, or just line inputs for synths? If you already have your own standalone preamp(s) or channel strip(s), you'll need to factor those into your input equation.

I was looking at something with useable pre-amps to start with. I've heard good things about the Saffire 40 and much better things about the MR816 at that sort of pricepoint.

They'll be used for vocal and synthwork and maybe some acoustic percussion in the near future but i'm in the middle of speccing a major studio revamp so I have to prioritise in a few different areas.

I think go for the MR816 as the preamps and AD/DA are universally glowing at anywhere near the pricepoint, and then look at quality pre-amps later this year. Something like the FMR RNP couple with the MR816 should give me a pretty decent and budget concious setup.

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Originally posted by 19503 buy a synth with usb.

Been there, done that and then sold the Virus.

wait for something better. i tell u. midi is a bitch. (imo).

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mixer solution

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Originally posted by tehlord I was looking at something with useable pre-amps to start with. I've heard good things about the Saffire 40 and much better things about the MR816 at that sort of pricepoint.

In that price range, I'd definitely give the MOTU 828mkIII or 896mkIII a lot of consideration - it's got a much longer track record, excellent pres and converters, onboard DSP effects, etc.

Personally, I'd go for a Motu or a Echo Audiofire at that price range.

I haven't used that exact model but all the Steinberg interfaces I've used in the past have just been ball ache and crap quality. Remember they don't manufacture the stuff themselves - it's all (at least the older hardware) was outsourced.

The motu's and are damn solid and second hand can be a good bet as they're pretty abundant and last well. Don't get any of the MK1 stuff as it's just too outdated and not up to par these days in terms of sonic quality. Get the 828 mkIII if you can - quite flexible and very decent (not amazing) conversion. You could go down the route of the ad8000 (which actually don't sound that bad at all) for extra track count.

The echo audiofires punch way above their price braket in terms of quality and are solid as hell. If i were buying new, I'd buy these at that price range but they don't come up often second hand so you'll probably be more likely to find a motu 828 cheap. I'd take the pre's on the Echo over the motu (just) but they're both still usable.

I've always liked the look of the 828mk3 and it is in my budget.

I'd agree about the Steinberg hardware except maybe in this instance as I have had some very high recommendations for it from some astounding gear snobs. Apparently the pre's etc are from some very high end Yamaha stuff.

Tough choice tbh, the MR816 gets good praise all over the Slutz too.

At least I seem to have narrowed it down to 2..........


And no bloody mixing desk thank gawd

I've just bought an 828 mk2 off Ebay.

I've decided that the quality will be plenty good enough until I get hold of a decent pre-amp, and i'm spending the saving on a better mic and monitors anyway.

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