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Problems with Trance Creation on Fl-studio

Hi guys

Can anyone help me.- I am having trouble with a few things
when it comes to Trance Production in FL-Studio.
Plz don�t tell me it�s FL-studio, because I know it too well to change.
and.. Yes I also know that FL is not recommended, for pro mixing, but I truly love it.
So, based on that can anyone help me out.

1.) Mix is too bassy, but when I remove that woom low FQ (20-60hz) it sounds crap.

2.) Does FL-Studio have an integrated compressor, because it sounds like my mix is in a box-?
however I do not have any compressors on any channels

3.) Is there any specific way to EQ / Master your Kick&Bassline for Trance-
I know about compressing it-


4.) When I play my mix- I get sounds playing over each other- how can I spread it out or
specify a certain space in the FQ spectrum for that sound. ( Using what? )

5.) What does Mastering include- and what FX should be on my mix before that.
when you master- do you use 2 wav files.? ( WaV-R & Wav-L )

Cheers guys
feedback would be much appreciated.

here is a sample track i produced - advice would be great:

Click here to go to my profile page.

Psy

Re: Problems with Trance Creation on Fl-studio

quote:

Originally posted by routingwithin Hi guys Can anyone help me.- I am having trouble with a few things when it comes to Trance Production in FL-Studio. Plz don�t tell me it�s FL-studio, because I know it too well to change. and.. Yes I also know that FL is not recommended, for pro mixing, but I truly love it. So, based on that can anyone help me out. 1.) Mix is too bassy, but when I remove that woom low FQ (20-60hz) it sounds crap....keep the bass in the 80hz area 2.) Does FL-Studio have an integrated compressor, because it sounds like my mix is in a box-? however I do not have any compressors on any channels...compression is just a tool to keep things tight in the mix and make it louder fl has compressors to do all that. 3.) Is there any specific way to EQ / Master your Kick&Bassline for Trance- I know about compressing it-.....keep the bass in the 80hz and the kick place where ever so it does not clash with the bass. 4.) When I play my mix- I get sounds playing over each other- how can I spread it out or specify a certain space in the FQ spectrum for that sound. ( Using what? .... work on finding the right parts that will work well in the mix. 5.) What does Mastering include- and what FX should be on my mix before that. when you master- do you use 2 wav files.? ( WaV-R & Wav-L )...dont worry at this stage about mastering work on the areas above Cheers guys feedback would be much appreciated. hope my tips help you out also go check out sean tyas tutorials on youtube Psy

i have given you some answers next to your questions in your post

Re: Problems with Trance Creation on Fl-studio

quote:

Originally posted by routingwithin Hi guys Can anyone help me.- I am having trouble with a few things when it comes to Trance Production in FL-Studio. Plz don�t tell me it�s FL-studio, because I know it too well to change. and.. Yes I also know that FL is not recommended, for pro mixing, but I truly love it. So, based on that can anyone help me out. 1.) Mix is too bassy, but when I remove that woom low FQ (20-60hz) it sounds crap. (Have you tried sidechaing your bass from your kick?) 2.) Does FL-Studio have an integrated compressor, because it sounds like my mix is in a box-? however I do not have any compressors on any channels ( You can sidechain in fl using the limiter here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lCI-2ceR7g ) 3.) Is there any specific way to EQ / Master your Kick&Bassline for Trance- I know about compressing it- (Make a cut in your bass using the parametric eq 2 for unwanted frequencies and make a cut for your kick to sit in ) 4.) When I play my mix- I get sounds playing over each other- how can I spread it out or specify a certain space in the FQ spectrum for that sound. ( Using what? ) (Make each sound have it's own frequency by removing some low end and panning synth sounds to improve your stereo field - don't have the same sounds occupying the same frequency area if you have use panning ) 5.) What does Mastering include- and what FX should be on my mix before that. when you master- do you use 2 wav files.? ( WaV-R & Wav-L ) ( I put eq then limiter but not too much there are too many mixes these days heavily limited - also use this on your master channel http://www.otiumfx.com/basslane.php ) Cheers guys feedback would be much appreciated. Psy

Re: Problems with Trance Creation on Fl-studio

quote:

Originally posted by routingwithin and.. Yes I also know that FL is not recommended, for pro mixing, but I truly love it. So, based on that can anyone help me out.

There are plenty of tracks made entirely in FL. Getting a good mixdown is more about the talent and experience of the user rather than the tools that are used.

quote:

Originally posted by routingwithin 1.) Mix is too bassy, but when I remove that woom low FQ (20-60hz) it sounds crap.

Bass extends outside the 20-60 Hz range. You bass and kick can extend well into the higher spectrum.

quote:

Originally posted by routingwithin 2.) Does FL-Studio have an integrated compressor, because it sounds like my mix is in a box-? however I do not have any compressors on any channels

Do not assume that lack of compression is the reason for this. More likely the mixdown needs to be fixed and your best tool for that is EQ. Learn about what compression is and why you may or may NOT need it on specific elements. Not everything needs compression.

quote:

Originally posted by routingwithin 3.) Is there any specific way to EQ / Master your Kick&Bassline for Trance- I know about compressing it-

EQ is likely your best tool for this, but there are no hard and fast rules. Basically you need to ensure that you have chosen the right sounds for your kick and bass. Ensure that the fundamental frequencies of each elements are not occupying the same space. Only compress the sounds that need compression.

quote:

Originally posted by routingwithin 4.) When I play my mix- I get sounds playing over each other- how can I spread it out or specify a certain space in the FQ spectrum for that sound. ( Using what? )

That is all a function of learning how to give each element its own space in the mix and your best tool for that is EQ.

quote:

Originally posted by routingwithin 5.) What does Mastering include- and what FX should be on my mix before that.

Mastering is ONLY about adding a bit of volume and a tiny, tiny bit of sheen. Do not assume that mastering will fix a bad mix.

pretty sure Breakfast uses Fruity

What are you mixing on?

Headphones, hifi speakers, monitors?

You keep talking about compressors and EQs. They're probably the least of your worries. Look at your sound selection, and whether the sounds are fitting well together in the first place rather than trying to force them with heaps of processing.

And post a sample if you want helpful replies.

If you take the trance preset on FL you have multiband compressor on the master.

EQ of the kicks should be a bit enhanced on the low end, that's it mostly.

Sounds playing over each other = cut reverb

And in trance bass should be sidechained to the kick, that's the way to have a low bass but without eating the rest of elements in the track.

Generic but hope it helps.

Once again, I completely disagree with everything you just said.

You shouldn't use a multiband compressor to mix a track. He's asking about mixing not mastering. And basslines in trance certainly don't have to be sidechained at all. And many kicks don't need EQing.

I'm sorry to nitpick but none of what you just said applies to most of the tracks I make, and I think most people would advise against giving advice like that when you haven't heard the track he's working on to judge whether its appropriate.

quote:

Originally posted by Rodri Santos If you take the trance preset on FL you have multiband compressor on the master. EQ of the kicks should be a bit enhanced on the low end, that's it mostly. Sounds playing over each other = cut reverb And in trance bass should be sidechained to the kick, that's the way to have a low bass but without eating the rest of elements in the track. Generic but hope it helps.

Some of the worst advice i've ever seen tbh.

quote:

Originally posted by johncannons1 pretty sure Breakfast uses Fruity

he did, i believe he's on Cubase now. Maybe blueshift could tell us more about that one :P

hi guys

Wow, thanx for the replies- much appreciated

Ok, Owien- Know about 80hz-100hz for the kick and bassline, should it be concentrated
on the kick and bass? or you mean like an 80hz boost ?

what i meant in 2- In FL,, is there a background compressor that is on by default-
which does not show anywhere?

Craig- cheers for the link- and yes know about sidechaining, however
It�s more the lack of quality for the bass & kick- any ideas where i can find just 1
good trance kick & bassline..?

Eric- I tried playing with EQ's but it always breaks me down,
try to make the mix brighter but end up making it too sharp-
and if it�s not sharp then it�s too bassy
will check out more info on compression and FreQuencies

No one's going to tell you you need "big speakers". Thats stupid.

And no, there is no "theory to follow" to make every mix sound good. You need to be able to hear the mix. If you have good headphones and some time and skill you can do that. But not if your using your little sisters Skull Candy ones. Every mix needs a different combination of techniques to make it sound good. You won't know which ones to apply unless you can hear it and listen to it critically.

I'll post some actual advice when your site comes back up.

well dude-

if i am mixing on headphones and finished my mastering- then I would need studio speakers to verify that my mix sounds good.
I mean good quality speakers so that all FQ's can be presented,
cause my biggest problem is FQ's being out of bound.

so in a way big speakers does matter...

Not at all. Lots of people make great tracks on headphones or on very small speakers. All the relevant frequencies are presented on all speaker systems, just to a different degree. If you cross check your mixes against other systems occasionally to learn the exact character of your headphones, then a decent pair of headphones are more than adequate for mixing. Don't blame your tools if your having a hard time of it.

I have no idea what you mean when you talk about "FQ's being "out of bound"??

quote:

Originally posted by routingwithin if i am mixing on headphones and finished my mastering- then I would need studio speakers to verify that my mix sounds good.

You mastered the track yourself?

IMO you should just listen the mix on various sound systems, your mp3-player, car stereo etc.. That'll give you a wider perspective on your mix. Every potential listener is not gonna listen to your track on some pro studio monitors.
And if I may, I'll just jump to a conclusion that you've gotten ahead of things on the whole mixing thing. If you feel your ears fail with the balance of frequencies on your track, use a spectrum analyser on your master to roughly see what frequencies are present in the whole mix. After that and your ears you should perhaps be able to have a way to go with your mixing.

As said in every possible tutorial on the tutorial master list that deals with mixing in general, EQ'ing or mastering; learning to mix takes time and even fine mastering isn't gonna make a poopish mix shine.

quote:

Originally posted by Rodri Santos If you take the trance preset on FL you have multiband compressor on the master.

Yeah well THAT'S a good idea. Jesus. I recommend you use nothing on the master. FL has some good projects that you can learn a lot from, and don't use EQ's and limiters on the master like in those projects. It's done just because they're internal, in the DAW, and couldn't be "mastered" any other way.

quote:

Originally posted by tehlord Some of the worst advice i've ever seen tbh.

what advice, this is the things he may have done badly. lol.

I think i've probably done everything that i read on the net- but never to any answer, and at the end i should probably play around with the sound and see where i end up, yeah, been doing that for 4years already, I know every basic thing of trance production and FL-studio, but......

I only need to know what FQ's ( Frequencies ) needs to be boosted and which to cut, sorry for any offence- i am just frustrated with crappy sound- and no its not the samples- i am talking about brightness, power, volume (atmosphere)- not a box mix

I use a Paramatic EQ 2 as a spectrum anylizer, but what should i be seeing ????
THe spectrum shows all FQ's are active during the mix, is'nt that a good thing or should there be gaps on certain FQ heads ??

makin me crazy

quote:

Originally posted by routingwithin I only need to know what FQ's ( Frequencies ) needs to be boosted and which to cut, sorry for any offence- i am just frustrated with crappy sound- and no its not the samples- i am talking about brightness, power, volume (atmosphere)- not a box mix

These are all things you gain with experience. There is no magic button or formula, every track is different. It is impossible for anyone to just say "boost here" or "cut here" and having it mean anything without hearing your track. Every tracks requires its own special combination of tweaks, and knowing what do to (and what NOT to do) is just a matter of experience.

quote:

Originally posted by routingwithin I use a Paramatic EQ 2 as a spectrum anylizer, but what should i be seeing ????

Again, that's entirely track dependent.

quote:

Originally posted by routingwithin THe spectrum shows all FQ's are active during the mix, is'nt that a good thing or should there be gaps on certain FQ heads ??

You want to ensure that you have chosen the right sounds and that each sound has its own space in the frequency spectrum. That's about all we can tell you without hearing your work.

yeah, you're right- every track will have a different tweaking and leveling.
But then check it, How do i specify a space in the spectrum?
Do I cut all FQ's except that one- probably not cause that will make the sound dull.

Just like the trance kick. People say: it should be based on 80-100hz
Does that mean, only a 80-100hz boost
or cut 20-70hz & 120hz-10Khz

cause when i boost 80-100hz it gets too much bass ( only a 2db boost)

Biggest problem is the sound of the Bass and kickdrum, if I get that right I would be on my way

quote:

Originally posted by routingwithin But then check it, How do i specify a space in the spectrum?

Again, like I said you need to ensure that different sounds are not overlapping in certain frequency bands. For example, it your kick's fundamental is a ~80Hz, and your bass also has a fundamental at ~80Hz, then you need to cut one of them, so they do not overlap. This is creating space in the mix.

This rule also applies to other elements as well. Sometimes you can pan things to make space or push things into the background using reverb or EQ. Its also about technique and experience to know what works and what does not.

Read through these articles on EQ:
http://kimlajoie.wordpress.com/tag/eq/

quote:

Originally posted by routingwithin Do I cut all FQ's except that one- probably not cause that will make the sound dull.

Maybe that is the answer. Having a clear mix is about space and contrasts. If everything is up front, then nothing can stand out.

quote:

Originally posted by routingwithin Just like the trance kick. People say: it should be based on 80-100hz

Their track is not the same as your track, that is why there can never be "one rule". Your kick may not have a strong fundamental in that range. The "bass" of a kick may lay in that range, but many genres (trance in particular), cut the bass in their kicks to leave room for the bass synths to stand out. They rely in the kick attack to make it stand out, and the kick attack is generally in the 2000 Hz range. Other tracks may leave that bass in the kick and cut the bass synths in that range. The point is nothing should overlap too much, that's what creates mud and loss of clarity.

quote:

Originally posted by routingwithin Does that mean, only a 80-100hz boost or cut 20-70hz & 120hz-10Khz

In that instance, if you want the kick to dominate that range, then you must cut anything else with fundamentals in that range. Or you could go the other way around and cut the kick in that range to make the other dominating elements in that range stand out. The point is that only one sound is dominant in any particular range.

quote:

Originally posted by routingwithin cause when i boost 80-100hz it gets too much bass ( only a 2db boost)

Then that should tell you that you should not boost, in that particular instance. I stress the words "in that particular instance", because what may have worked in one track many not work in the next one.



Here is a great blog that has good tips on a lot of different elements of production. Read through it thoroughly.

http://kimlajoie.wordpress.com/

that was such an eye opener dude , I see what you are saying-

making space is probably the answer.
also specify one sound in each section of the spectrum to dominate,

I could probably use Automation to auto Pan sounds while playing-
using theory to keep the mix organized.


I will give those links a walkthrough --

thnx 4 a great reply

Peace Out

quote:

Originally posted by routingwithin I could probably use Automation to auto Pan sounds while playing- using theory to keep the mix organized.

Use panning as your last resort to make space in your mix. Try using EQ first. I would strongly recommend against automating panning as a way to create space. Its fine if you want to use that technique as an effect, but do not use it to create space.

quote:

Originally posted by routingwithin I will give those links a walkthrough -- thnx 4 a great reply Peace Out

Good Luck.

What about EQ automation ??

quote:

Originally posted by routingwithin What about EQ automation ??

No. It generally is a bad idea for the purposes of creating space in a mix.

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