TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Production Studio
-- Any standard EQ tricks / tips for getting pads to agree with leads?
Pages (2): [1] 2 »

Any standard EQ tricks / tips for getting pads to agree with leads?

finding it tough to get my pads and lead to agree together. Is there anything which can aid the fight?

I have a reverb on the pad and a seperate reverb on the lead to try and give them soom space along with EQ for each.

Re: Any standard EQ tricks / tips for getting pads to agree with leads?

quote:

Originally posted by Matt_Moor finding it tough to get my pads and lead to agree together. Is there anything which can aid the fight? I have a reverb on the pad and a seperate reverb on the lead to try and give them soom space along with EQ for each.

Post an audio example as well maybe?

I tend not to use too many separate reverbs within a project. I usually have one long, one short and maybe the odd spot FX reverb here and there. Having lots of reverbs is one of the quickest ways of muddying up the mids imo.

Make sure they're both high passed up to perhaps 100hz.

One thing worth trying is ducking the pad with the lead, not for a pumping effect but just to give the lead some space. I'd say go back and take a look at the reverbs first though.

Another way to look at it is have you chosen the right sounds that go together in the first place?

TBH i rekkon too much reverb will mush the two together even more. Obviously they need a good dose of it to give them epicness but just saying too much makes it even more mushy. You'll want as little reverb as possible to get the desired epicness.

I always try and low pass my pads (or just design them on the synth with the filter closed a bit) to make em more mid-rangey/warm and make the lead a bit more high up, sharp and defined by cutting the bass and maybe even boosting the highs to give it more definition and sharpness which should seperate it from the mid rangey pads a bit more.

If both are highly dense unison/supersawish sounds then this can also loose the definition aswell.

What i would do is start with all effects like reverb off...and see if that does the trick...try to adjust the levels maybe...

There has been so many times when i thought it might be an EQ problem or something when it was really just to much reverb or something on one of the channels instead of the EQ that was messing things up.

As far as EQ, i usually cut everything on the low end for leads and pads, usually around the 500k range. When in doubt use you ears.

Sample would help out a bit.

[[ LINK REMOVED ]]


Im mixing this all in AKG K271 Studio headphones with no monitors so forgive me if it sounds rash

The lead sound has a Parametric EQ, then Reverb, then delay, then a compressor in that order.

The pad has parametric EQ, then reverb.

The master bus has everything below 400hz mono, then a 33hz & 18000Khz cuts, then a multiband compressor, then sonic maximiser.

Not enough stereo elements. Your lead and pads seem to be completely mono.

cool track, the lead/pad could both use some stereo width though

quote:

Originally posted by Morvan Not enough stereo elements. Your lead and pads seem to be completely mono.

I dont know how that happened i am using a plugin on the master to set everything under 400hz to mono but apart from that everything else in regards to that *looks* fine.

@asdfg what kinda of plugins can help with width? Or is stereo seperation the same thing?

Take out the bottom end of the pads, and the leads.

I wouldn't be using anything on the master channel that's effecting anything below 400hz. If you want something in mono, then make it mono at individual channel level.

The pad sounds a bit complex and verby to really sit in a mix properly, it's moving around a bit too much.

I'd take all the reverb off both parts and send them both to a reverb send channel.

Then duck the pad sound (maybe try a different sound as well) with the lead a bit.

yeah think im just gonna dump that pad. Lesson learned i guess thanks guys

quote:

Originally posted by Matt_Moor yeah think im just gonna dump that pad. Lesson learned i guess thanks guys

Forgive me for spamming your thread with this link, but I think it's appropriate in this case :-

http://soundcloud.com/bluffmunkey/go-solar-wip

This has both a huge verby lead and a pad going at the same time. The lead is ducked with the kick, but that shouldn't be apparent as the ducking is set to be fairly transparent. The pad is also ducked with the kick but more obviously. More importantly they both share the same reverb send which is...guess what.....ducked by the kick!

I don't think the track is overly 'sidechained' but ducking can be used to create a lot of space in a mix without being obviously pumping. The pad was chosen after I had the lead sound down specifically because it sounded good with it and didn't clash. They're both high passed up to about 200-500hz somewhere and the lead has a high shelf boost on it around 3-5khz from memory to give the top end a little boost.

No at all mate anything that can help me learn i am more than happy to check out, my bandwith is what stops me from listening to the stuff in the promotion forum at the minute

Didn't bother to read the rest of the thread, but:

Cut the top and bottom frequencies of the pad as much as you can.

This one is obvious, but sidechain the pad and the lead with a soft knee and the fastest attack possible. Try to make it sound unnoticable.

There is really not a ton you can do to prevent the frequency clashing here other than your typical mono and placement strategies in the stereo field. Obviously, make sure the pad and lead are primarly hitting on opposite channels for the most part. Keep stretching their distance until it sounds right. (I'd put the lead on the left channel with maybe a slightly delayed and chorus'd sound of it panned hard right)

Just keep fiddling with it using standard stuff and they'll eventually fit. If they don't, then the sounds are not meant to be. You should be able to make it work tho.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt_Moor The lead sound has a Parametric EQ, then Reverb, then delay, then a compressor in that order.

! Trap detected. !

Use the reverb AFTER the delay.
The way you are doing, you are delaying reverb tails, crashing your mix.

Avoid this common error.

quote:

Originally posted by PlasticSoul ! Trap detected. ! Use the reverb AFTER the delay. The way you are doing, you are delaying reverb tails, crashing your mix. Avoid this common error.

Excellent tip!

I didnt even think twice about that haha. Easy when you know how eh

Yes, you almost ALWAYS feed your delay into your reverb. And the compressor most likely needs to be the first processor in the chain unless you've got a gate going. Personally, I'd do it like this in your situation.

Compressor - > EQ -> Delay -> Reverb -> EQ (cut reverb tails, cut top and bottom frequencies as much as possible, finishing touches)

You may also want to take a bell on an EQ and scan the lead to find its fundamental and boost it along with the 2nd and 3rd harmonics. This will help it cut better through the pad. Make sure to use a boost friendly EQ like a Pultec or Trident.

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Wiley Yes, you almost ALWAYS feed your delay into your reverb. And the compressor most likely needs to be the first processor in the chain unless you've got a gate going. Personally, I'd do it like this in your situation. Compressor - > EQ -> Delay -> Reverb -> EQ (cut reverb tails, cut top and bottom frequencies as much as possible, finishing touches) You may also want to take a bell on an EQ and scan the lead to find its fundamental and boost it along with the 2nd and 3rd harmonics. This will help it cut better through the pad. Make sure to use a boost friendly EQ like a Pultec or Trident.

ahhh

i thought i was better to edit the original signal to remove the rubbish etc and then compress the final thing that i was happy with...

So this is infact the wrong approach and backwards ? lol

People really are going crazy with the ducking replies I mean it helps and I do it myself from time to time but its still not going to fix what he has in the slighest degree.

The first problem I heard was sound levels, there is too large a variation between the lead and pad. Either lower the lead or make the pad a little bit louder. You can also carve out more room using an equalizer properly, but I wouldn't even bother because of what I'm about to say next.
The second thing I noticed was just a bad choice of sounds. As reverbed as the pad is the lfos in the lead are throwing transients all over the pad washing it out almost completely. I'm sure the reverb before delay is just making it worse as well. Ducking and all that HELP, but at the level this track is at there are much more fundamental problems going on than ducking.

As far as the pad have you tried cloning it and panning one hard left and the other hard right? Then just shift one of them forward or back a few miliseconds, this should help widen the pad up a fair deal. I find stereo plugs can help but often they don't really push the sound as wide as it needs to go. HOWEVER, even with both the lead and pad in mono you should still be able to have them both sitting in their own seperate spaces and not mushed together as much as they are now.
Sure it won't sound as good as it can, but thats definitely not your *main* problem.
Your main problem is levels and sound choice, and an equal can go a long way too in this case.. just that I'd save the equal for better sounds. Even the lead I wasn't that crazy about, its very brittle and digital sounding. You need to warm it up quite a bit.

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Wiley Compressor - > EQ -> Delay -> Reverb -> EQ (cut reverb tails, cut top and bottom frequencies as much as possible, finishing touches)

I think experiement with the compresor before the chain or compressor after the chain. Sometimes putting a compressor after a reverb, delay and EQ will make it all come together nicely and you get a fuller sound.

Although i admit in some cases it doesnt work.

quote:

Originally posted by sm44 I think experiement with the compresor before the chain or compressor after the chain. Sometimes putting a compressor after a reverb, delay and EQ will make it all come together nicely and you get a fuller sound. Although i admit in some cases it doesnt work.

This is what your bus compressors are for mate

quote:

Originally posted by Matt_Moor @asdfg what kinda of plugins can help with width? Or is stereo seperation the same thing?

some synths give you the ability to adjust the stereo spread of the detuned oscillators, increasing this will create a wider sound in the stereo field.
the following synths (that i'm aware of) are good at this:

virus
komplexer/largo
sylenth

similar results can be achieved by recording/detuning multiple times, explained here.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox The second thing I noticed was just a bad choice of sounds. As reverbed as the pad is the lfos in the lead are throwing transients all over the pad washing it out almost completely.

How can you tell there is transients so i can detect this myself in future? Like how can you say it is a transient 100% and not, say, a volume fader issue or an EQ issue.

Is there any way to fix transients on leads and pads, or is it better in some cases (like this one) to just find other sounds.

quote:

Originally posted by PlasticSoul ! Trap detected. ! Use the reverb AFTER the delay. The way you are doing, you are delaying reverb tails, crashing your mix. Avoid this common error.

Its not an error, its a sound design choice. Probably not the right on in most trance contexts, but if you're trying to create a big shifting atmosphere it works well.

@ the OP; I haven't listened to your mix (internet's capped), but I would look into making the pad nice and wide while keeping the lead down the centre. Also try to keep the pad in the low mids and the lead in the high mids, and also consider using a big long reverb on the pad, so it creates more of a wash, while getting a room verb and lesser levels of long verb on the lead. The room verb will bring it further forward in the mix if used sparingly and in the right way.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt_Moor The master bus has everything below 400hz mono

stereo bass was mostly a vinyl concern, as stereo bass would make the needle jump out of the groove. even then, vinyl masterings only made sure it was mono below 150hz. whatever you're using to mono-ize the master bus, you can drop it down a good bit more and still be fine.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.