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bass

this is where most of my difficulty seems to lie in ..sometimes i end up with a entire track.but the one thing missing is the bass, when its probably the x factor of dance music, and the reason is i can never find the right sound/preset to sit well with the rest of the track. I heard a lot of reviews about trilian, but i cant afford that right now, what are some other modules that you guys would recommend?

An understanding of layering may serve you better than another VST.

hmm i never really looked into layering bass sounds yet.

quote:

Originally posted by LoveHate hmm i never really looked into layering bass sounds yet.

I've always found it's a good idea to separate the subby part of the bassline from the rhythmic (mid-lows) parts. One isn't necessarily compatible with the other.

Any good reads on the subject?

Agree layering is a great way to make bass. 1 synth as the sub, and 1 or 2 other synths for mids or adding some top end or grit or what ever you need. Search youtube for some help, there is loads on there

quote:

Originally posted by Xilver Any good reads on the subject?

Maybe this helps: http://www.squidoo.com/bigbadbass

Some people freak out about layering basses but I've never gotten a single decent bass sound out of one patch before. Trillian, Sylenth and Predator all work wonders for basses but you really need to layer sub basses with the mids to get it to sound "full", that is if that's the sound you're trying to achieve.

Basses used to cripple me too, it just came with experience I guess.

Bass is one area that instantly ceased to be a problem once I got my Little Phatty. One patch, fairly simple, straight out of the unit. Bass done. In fact, frequently, i have to tone it down quite a bit with EQ because the bass is too massive.

Yo,

Recently i have been layering 2 basses together using Trillian.

The first bass is just a punchy, round offbeat basline pattern with an arp bassline pattern which is deeper than the first but not as punchy, seems to work really well

Mark

Do you guys generally make your layers have different rythms or just use them purely to get more timbral control?

I've tried to put an offbeat sub in my tracks along with the mid bass (in a different pattern) but it generally comes out pretty muddy... Maybe my kick is eating up too much lows or maybe I need to highpass my mid bass more viciously, but then I find I lose the most pleasing frequencies of that sound...

i've always been a fan of 1 synth patch bass; you can make either work. having a good base oscillator helps a ton.

I have them all/both playing the same rhythm. Using Layer in FL nothing else is even possible though. Lately I've started noticing basses and kicks even overlapping in some tracks that have really interesting basslines, thus I've started working towards that kind of eq'ing in my mixes that allows me to have subs, mid basses and kicks all overlap each other (without sidechaining) without any muddiness, phasing etc. Subs really low, mids say 400hz-2000hz, then I just carve a good hole for the kick in the whole mix. Though I'm really just experimenting again and it might be this whole thing's never gonna work.

quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips Do you guys generally make your layers have different rythms or just use them purely to get more timbral control? I've tried to put an offbeat sub in my tracks along with the mid bass (in a different pattern) but it generally comes out pretty muddy... Maybe my kick is eating up too much lows or maybe I need to highpass my mid bass more viciously, but then I find I lose the most pleasing frequencies of that sound...

In my recent productions I havent been layering bass as the tracks I've been making didnt need them but when I have done in the past I would say both; 1 for timbral for the actual bass soun, and other tracks have a slightly different rhythms to create the pattern itself, all depends what you want to achieve.

quote:

Originally posted by Kysora Basses used to cripple me too, it just came with experience I guess.

+1, def experience. Experimentation is key.

quote:

Originally posted by lay Maybe this helps: http://www.squidoo.com/bigbadbass

Thanks, interesting read. I have never layered my basses, maybe that's why my tracks always sound so thin.

Yeah, obviously less is often more with bass and its often better to use one bass patch - in most mf my tracks I use one bass patch, in one or two I have two bass patches playing the same pattern.

What I'm wondering is for those who DO layer their basses, whether you play a different pattern with each patch, or whether you just use two patches to make a certain sound play only one pattern. And of course, how you make all this work without sounding like soup.

quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips What I'm wondering is for those who DO layer their basses, whether you play a different pattern with each patch, or whether you just use two patches to make a certain sound play only one pattern. And of course, how you make all this work without sounding like soup.

I do both.

Note placement and EQ is my usual plan of attack, and before that simply chooing sounds that go together in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips And of course, how you make all this work without sounding like soup.

If its a 2 layer bass, make sure they compliment each other, so not of similar freq range and timbre. Use eq to give one its own space in the spectrum. The sub would be the deeper part and not so much heard, with the mid having more depth in character which is the part you hear more to define the bass. The two parts shouldnt be fighting to be heard but sound as one.

Lots of experimentig to see which patchs you create work with each other. Adding fx's like distortion and filtering can help depending on the type of bass you are after to make them work as one.

When playing different parts I find two or three patchs playing different notes isnt such a problem as they are not making one bass sound playing the same notes. But they do have to compliment each other when playing their individual patterns. You can really go crazy with this and have lots of fun making cool basslines and its not as difficult compared to making one bass sound from different patchs. Just make a midi pattern you like and try out different patchs till you find ones that work well. Then you can go in and process as you wish.

This track illustrates my own layering methods a bit :-

http://www.mediafire.com/?tjb5kbdubprj821

It's a half baked idea that i've abandoned for now so is unmixed as it is, but the part from 1.52 shows a subby bass that's a layered low part with an EQd and distorted higher part and a mid range plucky mid bass playing a different midi part. The layered low end is EQd to sit together and mildly ducked by the kick and then bussed with the mid bass and they're slightly compressed together.

Ah yes as tehlord added, sidechain is good to help it all fit with the kick, not as a pump effect either, but that can work also.

This is an example of single layered bass using Zebra 2


http://soundcloud.com/soundmagus/ma...xed-by-cosmosis

For my last few tracks I've layered basses:

-found a suitable bass sample (WAV from a sample pack) and chopped it up until I created a pattern that I liked - put it on its own channel with an EQ cutting off frequencies beyond, e.g., 500hz;
-used Melodyne to get the corresponding MIDI notes;
-placed the MIDI notes on a second channel with a sub-bass preset (pure sine wave with PSP VW) and frequencies cut off @ 100hz.

quote:

Originally posted by tehlord This track illustrates my own layering methods a bit :- http://www.mediafire.com/?tjb5kbdubprj821 It's a half baked idea that i've abandoned for now so is unmixed as it is, but the part from 1.52 shows a subby bass that's a layered low part with an EQd and distorted higher part and a mid range plucky mid bass playing a different midi part. The layered low end is EQd to sit together and mildly ducked by the kick and then bussed with the mid bass and they're slightly compressed together.

Like that track dude, very much the style of trance I've always loved. It reminds me of GTR - Mistral quite a bit I think, which is probably why it appeals.

I see what you've done with the sub and mid bass there as well. I didn't realise that the mid bass was usually mixed so low. Its definately something I'll keep in mind.

quote:

Originally posted by music2dance2 If its a 2 layer bass, make sure they compliment each other, so not of similar freq range and timbre. Use eq to give one its own space in the spectrum. The sub would be the deeper part and not so much heard, with the mid having more depth in character which is the part you hear more to define the bass. The two parts shouldnt be fighting to be heard but sound as one. Lots of experimentig to see which patchs you create work with each other. Adding fx's like distortion and filtering can help depending on the type of bass you are after to make them work as one. When playing different parts I find two or three patchs playing different notes isnt such a problem as they are not making one bass sound playing the same notes. But they do have to compliment each other when playing their individual patterns. You can really go crazy with this and have lots of fun making cool basslines and its not as difficult compared to making one bass sound from different patchs. Just make a midi pattern you like and try out different patchs till you find ones that work well. Then you can go in and process as you wish.

All good advice that I've heard before but probably not taken enough notice of. I guess its like anything else in production, you can talk about it till the cows come home but need to actually practise it.

quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips Like that track dude, very much the style of trance I've always loved. It reminds me of GTR - Mistral quite a bit I think, which is probably why it appeals. I see what you've done with the sub and mid bass there as well. I didn't realise that the mid bass was usually mixed so low. Its definately something I'll keep in mind.

Thanks old bean.

It's probably worth noting that those levels were by no means final. I probably would have layered a toppy, fizzy sound over the mid bass too to help emphasise it without necessarily making it any louder.

i guess it all comes down to equing when you layer a bass sound eh?

i guess the main objective it to make it more hard hitting?


do you guys use the same sound or different ones..

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