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-- Toronto Star: Toronto's 'Clubland' no longer booming as condos move in

Toronto Star: Toronto's 'Clubland' no longer booming as condos move in

wonder what power vacuum is gonna suck all those 905'ers in..

Toronto's 'Clubland' no longer booming as condos move in

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/art...os-move-in?bn=1


Adam Vaughan:

quote:

�All of this together is making the Entertainment District more entertaining,� said Vaughan. �And not a place where hooligans and clubgoers on a Thursday or Friday night terrorize the city.�

my facebook page made the news hahahaha

Its sad that certain people are self designating themselves to define what is cool. The era of "big box" nightclubs isnt over. They are just relocating and toronto is losing out.

I'm trying to remember if I've ever seen Vaughan in a good mood... he always comes off as this bitter dude out to ruin other people's fun

funny how the failed to mention all the draconian police raids that they have conducted (unreported btw) in the past few years.

id like to know exactly how much certain people are getting paid out by the condo developers

oh, how much heat i used to take from certain people on this forum years ago when i forecasted the outcome that is now described by this article!!!

i wish i hadnt been right

As much as Adam Vaughan is a bitter curmudgeon, I'm not totally sure his assertion is completely wrong. Big box clubs may not be completely dead, but the idea of the 'Entertainment District' may well be. The old school thinking behind entertainment districts is that by placing all of the clubs close together, people would be attracted to the rest of downtown where they could shop, go to museums, hit up restaurants before the club, etc. The reality has not been so rosy. Clubbers certainly flock to the entertainment district, but everybody else gets the hell out because they are tired of the regular hooliganism that takes place, especially on weekends. Clubbers aren't contributing enough to city and business coffers to make up for the people they drive out. Unfortuantely, it's the case of a few bad apples having a major impact on the whole.

I grew up in Guelph (population 120,000)which has a bar capacity for 10,000 within a four block area in the downtown core. It would be the equivalent of 300,000 packed into Toronto's entertainment district. Vandalism and violence has created a situation where downtown Guelph becomes a ghosttown after 6 because nobody wants to go down there once the sun goes down. It has gotten to the point where Guelph Police Service's Tactical Unit regularly patrols downtown on weekends.

Cities no longer find it worthwhile to keep injecting more police dollars to babysit drunken idiots. Club owners don't want to foot the tab for a police presence, and clubbers don't want to see the downtown turn into a police state. this basically leads to a stalemate and the best result from a municipal standpoint is to develop the entertainment districts out of existance a la Toronto.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing. By spreading out the clubs, you force clubbers to think before they go out. With the entertainment district nobody cares if they get kicked out of a club because there's another one next door that will happily serve them (let's face it, most clubs don't care that this is illegal). If you had to go 10 or 20 km to the next club, you'd think twice before doing something stupid enough to get kicked out - or you'd go home.

It's also good for the clubscene in general as owners have to put more thought into their operation. If somebody is going to drive all the way out to Mississauga or Oakville to go clubbing, it had better damn well be worth it. This might spur more spending on DJs and other aspects of the club experience, as owners can't just rely on picking up the spillover from other clubs in the vicinity of their operation.

RIP System

Everything hit the fan when System closed down

quote:

Originally posted by nacarter As much as Adam Vaughan is a bitter curmudgeon, I'm not totally sure his assertion is completely wrong. Big box clubs may not be completely dead, but the idea of the 'Entertainment District' may well be. The old school thinking behind entertainment districts is that by placing all of the clubs close together, people would be attracted to the rest of downtown where they could shop, go to museums, hit up restaurants before the club, etc. The reality has not been so rosy. Clubbers certainly flock to the entertainment district, but everybody else gets the hell out because they are tired of the regular hooliganism that takes place, especially on weekends. Clubbers aren't contributing enough to city and business coffers to make up for the people they drive out. Unfortuantely, it's the case of a few bad apples having a major impact on the whole. I grew up in Guelph (population 120,000)which has a bar capacity for 10,000 within a four block area in the downtown core. It would be the equivalent of 300,000 packed into Toronto's entertainment district. Vandalism and violence has created a situation where downtown Guelph becomes a ghosttown after 6 because nobody wants to go down there once the sun goes down. It has gotten to the point where Guelph Police Service's Tactical Unit regularly patrols downtown on weekends. Cities no longer find it worthwhile to keep injecting more police dollars to babysit drunken idiots. Club owners don't want to foot the tab for a police presence, and clubbers don't want to see the downtown turn into a police state. this basically leads to a stalemate and the best result from a municipal standpoint is to develop the entertainment districts out of existance a la Toronto. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. By spreading out the clubs, you force clubbers to think before they go out. With the entertainment district nobody cares if they get kicked out of a club because there's another one next door that will happily serve them (let's face it, most clubs don't care that this is illegal). If you had to go 10 or 20 km to the next club, you'd think twice before doing something stupid enough to get kicked out - or you'd go home. It's also good for the clubscene in general as owners have to put more thought into their operation. If somebody is going to drive all the way out to Mississauga or Oakville to go clubbing, it had better damn well be worth it. This might spur more spending on DJs and other aspects of the club experience, as owners can't just rely on picking up the spillover from other clubs in the vicinity of their operation.

here is the problem. The city wont let clubs open anywhere else. There is a virtual ban on clubs. Perhaps if things were allowed to progress naturally, there would be clubs somewhere else in the city by now and vaughan may well have already had his way.

For vaughan to declare that clubs are not cool is arrogant at best.

I would argue that the reason why a lot clubs downtown suck now is who in their right mind is going to spend money on a business that the police could raid at any time (without any real just reason) and take away from you? People have an appetite for clubs, just look at guv for example. Also a lot of clubs have now sprung up in the 905.

If politicians like adam vaughan really believed the crap they were spewing, they would allow clubs to open in toronto. If there really isnt a market, they wont last. Simple as that.

So while places like kitchener and buffalo are starting to open new nightclubs (as opposed to the bars we are getting on queen west), we continue to close ours.

I guess cover charges are being replaced with fines and condo fees in our once great city.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 here is the problem. The city wont let clubs open anywhere else. There is a virtual ban on clubs. Perhaps if things were allowed to progress naturally, there would be clubs somewhere else in the city by now and vaughan may well have already had his way. So while places like kitchener and buffalo are starting to open new nightclubs (as opposed to the bars we are getting on queen west), we continue to close ours.

it's a little bit more complicated than that - legally speaking - but i think there's some truth in what you're saying and in who you're quoting.

having everything so densely situated is almost sure to incite an inordinate number of problems, but with legislation the way it is at the moment, it does make alternative locations almost impossible.

"Those who are still making the trip into the city�s core Friday and Saturday nights haven�t got the memo yet: This place just isn�t cool anymore"

Is he really serious?? Does this guy think before he starts spewing whatever comes to his mouth?

It's politicians like him that are ruining the scene and the music in the downtown core. He is just fattening his pockets, by letting it happen, and he doesnt really care.

quote:

Originally posted by shagnew13 "Those who are still making the trip into the city�s core Friday and Saturday nights haven�t got the memo yet: This place just isn�t cool anymore" Is he really serious?? Does this guy think before he starts spewing whatever comes to his mouth? It's politicians like him that are ruining the scene and the music in the downtown core. He is just fattening his pockets, by letting it happen, and he doesnt really care.

He wants it to be like King st or Ossington, etc but even those places are ridiculous in terms of opening up new lounges/clubs.

Apparently there was a community meeting for the Ossington area and it was said to come up with a bylaw to have no new resto/lounges open in the area and that the ones that are open aren't allowed to put in a dj booth unless it was already there to begin with.

Wtf...make up your mind. So all you want are lounges w radios/cd players?

quote:

Originally posted by Endlesswave He wants it to be like King st or Ossington, etc but even those places are ridiculous in terms of opening up new lounges/clubs. Apparently there was a community meeting for the Ossington area and it was said to come up with a bylaw to have no new resto/lounges open in the area and that the ones that are open aren't allowed to put in a dj booth unless it was already there to begin with. Wtf...make up your mind. So all you want are lounges w radios/cd players?

HAHAHa right I know

And to sit there and say that everyone that goes downtown to party in the scene or thugs and hooligans is outrageous.

And to spew that all clubs in the entertainment district attract is violence, and guns, and vandalism, and whatever else he can come up with is just ridiculous!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Endlesswave He wants it to be like King st or Ossington, etc but even those places are ridiculous in terms of opening up new lounges/clubs. Apparently there was a community meeting for the Ossington area and it was said to come up with a bylaw to have no new resto/lounges open in the area and that the ones that are open aren't allowed to put in a dj booth unless it was already there to begin with. Wtf...make up your mind. So all you want are lounges w radios/cd players?

well it's clearly desperate measures here and is an indirect response to the ban on opening liquor-licensed venues in the downtown core.

the good news is that there is no real way of enforcing such a bylaw in any case would certainly be opposed by the local business improvement board(which yields significant pull in political circles).

quote:

�Bruce Willis isn�t a hooligan,� said Yen. �I�m not a hooligan, either.�

LOL!! I feel bad for Yen. Unfortunately, he's fighting a losing battle. Vaughan will spew all the shit he wants because that is what the people in his ward want to hear. He will undoubtedly be re-elected this year.

Honestly, I say f*** it! Let's just go back to underground and move this shit north end of the city. This way we'll have less of their shit to deal with and thus enjoy ourselves more!

The comments on the star site are great btw... Lots of people in agreement that Vaughan is contributing to the BORE factor. A BIG part of why I enjoyed Belgium/Ibiza so much was that it was so REFRESHING to not be in a stifled environment full of naysayers and over-regulation on people's fun. Oh, and, you can drink past 2am - imagine! wow! Next-up...a train that goes to the airport! amazing!

quote:

Originally posted by Swamper The comments on the star site are great btw... Lots of people in agreement that Vaughan is contributing to the BORE factor. A BIG part of why I enjoyed Belgium/Ibiza so much was that it was so REFRESHING to not be in a stifled environment full of naysayers and over-regulation on people's fun. Oh, and, you can drink past 2am - imagine! wow! Next-up...a train that goes to the airport! amazing!

Right on right on.

Also, it was stated in one of these articles but no politician would ever think about it or would just come up with another excuse but how come during TIFF when last call is at 4am (like New York...) how come there isn't an 'even more' amount of recklessness/rowdiness than normal? (Which I'm guessing that's their rationale for having last call at 2am and not extending it?)

Just retardedness. If I lived downtown I'd put in whoever gets rid of those damned bylaws.

not that clubbing is one of the more important issues in living downtown, but that said, remember all this when election time comes up in a couple months.

educate yourself on the diff platforms for the candidates, and go vote!

quote:

Originally posted by E2EK1EL RIP System Everything hit the fan when System closed down

For real.
Underground is not recognized as a word in Toronto. There's some of them in the hip/hop ~ rap scene but it's only a handful.
I really, really miss that place

quote:

Originally posted by -g- not that clubbing is one of the more important issues in living downtown

that's what I said..

quote:

Originally posted by Endlesswave Right on right on. Also, it was stated in one of these articles but no politician would ever think about it or would just come up with another excuse but how come during TIFF when last call is at 4am (like New York...) how come there isn't an 'even more' amount of recklessness/rowdiness than normal? (Which I'm guessing that's their rationale for having last call at 2am and not extending it?) Just retardedness. If I lived downtown I'd put in whoever gets rid of those damned bylaws.

Let's not get too overboard on this point. Keep in mind that the average attendee going to a TIFF event is not in the 19-21 age bracket, wearing FUBU and representing their colours. Yes, this is a stereotype, but if the shoe fits...

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