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-- Sample of abrasive hats, what usually causes this?
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Sample of abrasive hats, what usually causes this?

I wouldn't really pay attention to the bass because its a squashed mess of generic crap.. like most my basses lol.

But as far as hats/percussion, I have to be doing something fundamentally wrong that I simply don't know I'm doing. When I equalize a lot of my hats, I tend to push the hi end up a bit, and then a bit less on the mid end, just so they are more "hissy" sounding and come through clearer, but I fear I might also be amplifying the bitter parts of my percussion.

I'll do a sweep with the equalizer, to see if a certain region will reduce the abrasive feel, but I can't ever really here the abrasiveness till everything plays together. And at that point going through the loops one my one I can't here where its coming from. Does this have to do with bad equalizing, or should I be putting my hats through something other than reverb to add a bit of warmth? Right now I'm just using stock FL reverbs on them. Anytime I make a loop it seems no matter what it always lacks warmth and sharpness. But when I try to make them sound "sharper" I always think I boost that abrasiveness.
And if its a matter of picking better sounds, than why it does it seems to always happen no matter what sound I pick? What you do guys think is the number 1 cause of the abrasive/brittle sound? So hard to get warmth along with clarity in my loops.

here

And please don't make fun lol, I just threw this together like an hour ago. Its repetitive and boring just pay attention to the how it seems to screech your ears. I know how to variate my mixes better its just no what I'm focused on right now. Thanks!

http://www.fabfilter.com/products/volcano.php;)

sounds distorted. most engineers will also tell you to never compress your hi hats as well. most hats if they're just from a sample CD need a nice clean high pass filter (sonnox eq is very good) set at 2 poles or so and that's it. don't over process your percussion

Sounds alright to me

try distortion, lowcutting around 1500, sidechain, less reverb, panning, and lower the volume on some of your hats

and most of all, bus em all and COMPRESSSSSS

I prefer hats that have more mid content. I hate those hihats that sound like little shakers they have been so hipassed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIwmSqiHTzY

then again i've always enjoyed everything a little more gritty. I hate that clean trance sound so much.

Yeh I know what you're saying I'm not a fan of clean trance myself. Which is why I already have some distortion on some of those hats. But realistically I like when the mids spin in the middle and the higher freqencies soften it up and add a bit of "smoke" to the main groove, if that makes any sense. Just more of an arrangment that focuses on contrast.
Oh and that track is awesome by the way, never heard it before.

As for the rest of the comments although there is distortion its really the tiniest amount on the main loop. And than the faster hitting closed hats are hi passed and boosted a tad on the high end.
I do usually overdo it on compression a lot but I think thats the only way you can find a balance is by pushing boundaries. I'd definitely rather use it than not use it, as I'd wind up just wanting to use it in the future and just having that much less experience.

I think I also try a lot to create complex interacting grooves, but I often find it near impossible to make sounds properly "talk to each other". I hear it so much in other tracks where once sound quickly plays its role and then draws in another sound, and all the sounds kind of snap and throw each other around which creates a nice pumping type of drive. I can really waste so much time because it feels like I'm putting a puzzle together w/out the picture. Even though I have a theoretical idea, or a vision in my head of what I want, actually hearing the sounds interact before you piece them together is just impossible.

why are you putting so many mids/highs into the kick?

quote:

Originally posted by jupiterone why are you putting so many mids/highs into the kick?

I think I do it because I can never get the actual depth or low end that I want in a kick so I compensate by boosting the highs and occassionally the 150-200 region. I find when I boost the highs it sometimes makes the kick sound thumpier, adding more contrast to its low end, and when I boost the 150-200 region its usually to break through the rest of the hats.

Im most likely just overdoing it will have to watch out for it next time.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox I think I do it because I can never get the actual depth or low end that I want in a kick so I compensate by boosting the highs and occassionally the 150-200 region. I find when I boost the highs it sometimes makes the kick sound thumpier, adding more contrast to its low end, and when I boost the 150-200 region its usually to break through the rest of the hats. Im most likely just overdoing it will have to watch out for it next time.

here are some frequencies to go by for kick:

bottom @ 60-80
slap @ 2.5.35
edge @ 10k
tubby @ 350-850

get rid of that 350-850, give it more depth. and if the bassline interferes with the kick then take out its lows and boost @ around 125 (bassline)

it gets lost in the mix when everything comes together later one dude, there is little bottom from the kick, too much punch. i didn't mean to sound dickish, just wanted to help because the kick seems out of place with the frequencies you've selected

take a listen to this track I did years ago.

http://soundcloud.com/mad-for-brad/touchdown-m

it has distorted hats actually made from white noise, and then you will hear later hats that don't really have any highs and then the open 909 which has been highpassed at a rather low hz. It isn't a production master piece but maybe it might give you some ideas of how to use different hihat types together.

Its a German Goose step stomper.

Here is another with 5 high parts all playing on each other

http://soundcloud.com/mad-for-brad/touchdown-m

by panning , having certain hats at certain registers, you can really get some interplay going on.

btw, I used to be a hard trance producer so that explains all the german stuff.

Not to derail the thread, but how did you make that synth that starts building at 2:04? I posted a thread a few months ago on how to recreate a sound similar to that but nobody seemed to have an answer.

the 303 or the stab ?

My memory is good but this was 9 years ago. The 303 If I remember correctly is vanguard but for some reason I don't think that was out at the time. Basically just filter modulation and playing all the notes changing octaves making it seem like it is sliding but it isn't.

The other synth , i know for sure was FM7 with just lots of voices and detune and a boost to the highs.

quote:

Originally posted by Kysora Not to derail the thread, but how did you make that synth that starts building at 2:04? I posted a thread a few months ago on how to recreate a sound similar to that but nobody seemed to have an answer.

Sounds like an acid noise with descending high pass filter. Saw wave + three pole LP filter + plenty of resonance + appropriate distortion. Run that through a high pass and sweep the cutoff gradually downward.

Do you need to boost every high hat? You probably dont have to boost them if any at all. Remove the eq's on all and see how the track plays. If all is ok add processing to each hat 1 at a time but only if its needed, if you add it to all and its not needed then the over processing will naturally cause problems with so much going on in that frequency range.

I figured it'd involve resonance, but I've never gotten an effect like that. Designing patches has always been my weakness. That's pretty cool that you did all of the porta manually, though. Thanks guys.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox I think I do it because I can never get the actual depth or low end that I want in a kick so I compensate by boosting the highs and occassionally the 150-200 region. I find when I boost the highs it sometimes makes the kick sound thumpier, adding more contrast to its low end, and when I boost the 150-200 region its usually to break through the rest of the hats. Im most likely just overdoing it will have to watch out for it next time.

your hats should rarely hit when your kick is hitting. for depth in the kick, put some sine waves in there. mess with automating the pitch of that specific sine wave to get rhythmic movement in the actual kick, however quick the sample might be. a lot of older trance has a sine wave in the kick that quickly free falls in pitch which gives it that oomph sound. again, be careful with the hi hats and kick together. i would highly recommend reading "mixing audio" Roey Izhaki and the "Dance Music Manual" by Rick Snoman if you're that interested in learning more about this stuff.

a lot of what i have read here is in complete contrast to what they say and used to be old habits of mine. by following what this book has taught me i have found my music to be much cleaner from a mixing perspective. composition just takes practice practice practice but with engineering you can read a lot and save yourself from a lot of practice. i have actually gone through both books, highlighted everything i thought was important, re-typed it, and then printed the notes i wrote out and i leave them here on my studio desk. somewhat of a "cookbook" for mixing i have made, although it's never a black and white situation.

I disagree with the hihat not happening on the kick. I think this is actually crucial to give the kick a little high end to make it cut. You just need to adjust velocities so that the hit on the downbeats are not as loud and take away the transient if it conflicts with the kick's own attack. This is really a technique everyone should do in that you should control your dynamics as much as you can before applying any sort of compression.

Very often , it is the things that are barely audible that can drastically change the groove of a rhythmic pattern. A drummer, for example does things called ghost notes that are played on the snare. They aren't really meant to be heard but rather felt. Not to say they are there if you have a good ear and listen carefully but you know what i'm saying.

quote:

Originally posted by Mad for Brad Very often , it is the things that are barely audible that can drastically change the groove of a rhythmic pattern. A drummer, for example does things called ghost notes...

That's a good point. Bassists/guitarist do something similar using muted notes and it adds a lot of rhythmic complexity and groove. It's an essential part of bass slap-style playing.

quote:

Originally posted by DjStephenWiley your hats should rarely hit when your kick is hitting.

Completely disagree. Like MFB said hi-hats can fill up those upper frequencies without having to boost the frequencies of the kick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AegD38ZkO7g

Say what you want about the track but it's got a pretty driving kick, and most of the reason for that is the hi-hat that's layered over it, which you can hear when the kick drops out in the beginning. Without it the kick wouldn't have the same kind of impact, I don't think.

you could throw a signal generator on a separate track, 40hz, put a gate on it and set the key input as your track so it triggers whenever the kick is hitting

quote:

Originally posted by Mad for Brad I disagree with the hihat not happening on the kick. I think this is actually crucial to give the kick a little high end to make it cut. You just need to adjust velocities so that the hit on the downbeats are not as loud and take away the transient if it conflicts with the kick's own attack. This is really a technique everyone should do in that you should control your dynamics as much as you can before applying any sort of compression. Very often , it is the things that are barely audible that can drastically change the groove of a rhythmic pattern. A drummer, for example does things called ghost notes that are played on the snare. They aren't really meant to be heard but rather felt. Not to say they are there if you have a good ear and listen carefully but you know what i'm saying.

One thing that I hear a lot is reverse claps leading up to claps. It's kind of the same thing and can add some groove. Just don't put it on every single clap or else it sounds stale. Put the reverse clap on before the 4 in a bar, or before the 4 on a larger section.

basically anything that sort of pushes toward the backbeat. I find reverse claps unless considerably changed sound too how do you say, overused ? My feeling regarding dance is that emphasis should always be on 2 and 4. This has pretty much been the same for dancing music in western music post waltz. The focus on on 2 and 4 should be the clap or snare, not the kick. This is just my opinion from someone that writes music and also likes to dance. I can't crip walk if there is no backbeat. lol Of course there are the glow stick wielding E-tard flaylers that just wave their hands in the air. I suppose those retards don't need that 2 4 emphasis.

quote:

Originally posted by Mad for Brad basically anything that sort of pushes toward the backbeat. I find reverse claps unless considerably changed sound too how do you say, overused ? My feeling regarding dance is that emphasis should always be on 2 and 4. This has pretty much been the same for dancing music in western music post waltz. The focus on on 2 and 4 should be the clap or snare, not the kick. This is just my opinion from someone that writes music and also likes to dance. I can't crip walk if there is no backbeat. lol Of course there are the glow stick wielding E-tard flaylers that just wave their hands in the air. I suppose those retards don't need that 2 4 emphasis.

I'm not saying put the rev clap in place of the clap, it's there to accent the clap that's already there on the 4.

thats what I assumed you meant. I find any sort of resolving rhythmic push works on all 4 beats and of course the 2 and 4 will be more salient as the main clap/snare will sound. It sort of combines the entire bar into a rhymical phrase or pulse that is felt rather than heard.

I also like a delay on the claps that is slightly pushed back in time.

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