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Ribbon Mic Preamp - Focusrite ISA One vs. Grace M101

I posted this on gearslutz yesterday and, surprisingly, have gotten zero responses so far. So, I'll try here and see if anybody here has any experience/recommendations.

I just placed my order for my Cascade Fat Head II ribbon mic (standard transformer) and I'm considering buying a preamp that will be primarily dedicated to it and I've narrowed it down to the Focusrite ISA One or Grace M101 (new version w/Ribbon Mode). The mic and preamp will be used primarily for recording female vocalists and, occasionally, acoustic guitar. I currently work with 4 different vocalists, each with widely differing vocal qualities, so I'm looking to maximize my flexibility/options for the different singers.

I'm leaning pretty heavily toward the ISA One at this point due to its routing flexibility, adjustable impedance, better metering, and slightly lower cost, but would like opinions on the two preamps for my stated needs. Also, I've used Focusrite ISA pres before, so I'm familiar with their sound and quality. I've never used a Grace pre before, but it looks great on paper.

Anybody here used this mic and/or either of these preamps? It looks like they both have plenty of gain for ribbon mics, but I'd love to hear from anybody who has used a ribbon mic with one or both of these pres.

you know some of the best vocal recordings were done with an sm57. Freddie Mercury comes to mind. Perhaps you need better singers, not better mic/pres. I just don't see why you need so much gear for such background singing. I believe you suffer from GAS

Thanks. I don't "need" a better pre, I want one. And, the singers I work with are awesome, not to mention very good friends. Thanks for the advice, though.

The FMR RNP is usally mentioned when semi affordable pre-amps are uttered anywhere on t'net.

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Originally posted by cryophonik Thanks. I don't "need" a better pre, I want one. And, the singers I work with are awesome, not to mention very good friends. Thanks for the advice, though.

I think you should buy Stephen's virus and take a picture of you like slapping it with your genitals. That would be money well spent.

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Originally posted by tehlord The FMR RNP is usally mentioned when semi affordable pre-amps are uttered anywhere on t'net.

Yeah, I considered that one (along with dozens of others), but the RNP has pretty significant noise at its highest gain setting (+65dB IIRC), and since the FHII is a ribbon mic, I'd be driving it at max gain (& max noise). The ISA One and M101 have even more gain with less noise.

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Originally posted by Mad for Brad I think you should buy Stephen's virus...

I already have a Virus, thanks. You'd think the avatar would give that away and, if not, my sig surely would.

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Originally posted by cryophonik Yeah, I considered that one (along with dozens of others), but the RNP has pretty significant noise at its highest gain setting (+65dB IIRC), and since the FHII is a ribbon mic, I'd be driving it at max gain (& max noise). The ISA One and M101 have even more gain with less noise.

Hmmmm, well the Grace look teh sexeh

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Originally posted by cryophonik I already have a Virus, thanks. You'd think the avatar would give that away and, if not, my sig surely would.

the point isn't the virus. The point is that it is stephen's virus. And the picture with the genitals. jeez. His beloved synth with Cryophonic pubes. Well thats what I would do but hey thats just me.

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Originally posted by Mad for Brad the point isn't the virus. The point is that it is stephen's virus. And the picture with the genitals. jeez.

No way, dude - I don't want to catch a virus from Stephen's Virus.

Hey MFB, seeing as you know fucking everything, do you have any preamp advice?

absolutely nothing. Enough to know that unless you are doing upfront vocals in an intimate setting, you aren't going to notice any difference.

Mental note

Be more intimate

u can use a speaker as a mic. just shout into it and it will generate electricity. plug those into a RIAA-amp and donne.

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Originally posted by tehlord Mental note Be more intimate

Unless it's with Stephen's Virus.

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Originally posted by tehlord Hmmmm, well the Grace look teh sexeh

It does look sexy, and getting intimate with Grace sounds a lot better than getting intimate with a Virus.

Re: Ribbon Mic Preamp - Focusrite ISA One vs. Grace M101

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik I posted this on gearslutz yesterday and, surprisingly, have gotten zero responses so far. So, I'll try here and see if anybody here has any experience/recommendations. I just placed my order for my Cascade Fat Head II ribbon mic (standard transformer) and I'm considering buying a preamp that will be primarily dedicated to it and I've narrowed it down to the Focusrite ISA One or Grace M101 (new version w/Ribbon Mode). The mic and preamp will be used primarily for recording female vocalists and, occasionally, acoustic guitar. I currently work with 4 different vocalists, each with widely differing vocal qualities, so I'm looking to maximize my flexibility/options for the different singers. I'm leaning pretty heavily toward the ISA One at this point due to its routing flexibility, adjustable impedance, better metering, and slightly lower cost, but would like opinions on the two preamps for my stated needs. Also, I've used Focusrite ISA pres before, so I'm familiar with their sound and quality. I've never used a Grace pre before, but it looks great on paper. Anybody here used this mic and/or either of these preamps? It looks like they both have plenty of gain for ribbon mics, but I'd love to hear from anybody who has used a ribbon mic with one or both of these pres.

Sorry Dave, missed the other thread.

I think you're doing the right thing about thinking of mics in terms of pre combination prior to buying but I'm a little surpirsed you're buying the Fathead primarily for vocals?

Don't get me wrong, it's a fantastic mic and probably one of the best ribbons for that price, but I would reach for a number of other mics for vocals before I grabbed the FH-II. Also, with the ISA, it could sound a little clinical (not a bad thing) but more on that later.

I'd use it as a room mic or overheads for drums in a heartbeat - we uses the Royer 121's mainly for that but the FH is a very close competitor at a fraction the cost.

For acoustic guitar, flute or even trumpet the FH will do a superb job and I'd happily use it in a pro studio during a session for just that. Yes, I'd consider using it on vocals but It just really wouldn't be my first or even third choice at that price bracket.

The problem that I have with it is, that a lot of vocal mics will do a good job on strung instruments (as long as they are not too warm or smooth) but mics that are amazing for guitars or strings will not be perfectly matched for vox (hopefully you get what i mean). there are one or two exceptions to this but not at this price range.

I know it's a little more but I would go with a Mojave MA200 for vocals. It would be a beautiful combo with the Grace amp as the mic it allows a bit of the preamp to show through, the mic is superb for anyone that has a slightly dull voice and for pop voices (think edm) it is just flawless. You can use it on guitars, cabs - you can even use it a kick drum mic paired with d112.

For this reason, combined with the fact we do EDM, I feel if you're going to record instruments or vocals that's your chance to get a little warmth and character in to the mix so the Mojave is my primary. The only downside with the Mojave is that it cardioid.

The ISA has great fetures and I honestly don't know how they've done it for the price but my only gripe with all the focusrite stuff is just a little cold for me. Maybe it's becuase I've really only used them with digi interfaces but I always feel like they do a great got of getting a really clean signal but the rest is just too lifeless. It comes down to what you are trying to achieve with them. If you need the flexibility then the ISA wins, but if sound is your primary concern then go for the grace.

Here's my choice: If you're going for the FH then do it with the grace unless you need the features of the ISA.

If however, you were to reconsider the mic, I would hands down go for mojave MA200 with the Grace. That would possibly be the best budget combo I can think of.

Thanks for that, RANN - I knew you'd have good advice.

It's funny that you mention the MA-200 because I've lusted over that mic for some time, but I probably should have mentioned that I already have a good condenser (AKG C414B-XL II) that I use with my JoeMeek OneQ. So spending that much on another condenser isn't something I'm really too keen on at this point. I really wanted a different style of mic, and I was particulalry interested in getting a ribbon mic to give me a different flavor than my AKG offers, and to give me a "softer" mic to use on some recordings, especially for singers with more "aggressive" tones.

Also, I should mention that EDM is only one style of vocals that I record. Much of my own music is more downtempo stuff, and I record vocals for the singers' other (i.e., non-cryophonik) projects, which range from alt pop/rock to folk to piano/vocal, etc.

Anyway, I bought the FH-II already and it will be here early next week. I've seen quite a few mixed reviews of the FH-II, but overall they are very positive and the overwhelming majority of them praised it for female vocals (especially considering the price range). And, knowing that I was going to want a dedicated preamp for it, the price on the FH-II was perfect. If I had the extra cash, I may have looked at something more expensive (e.g., Woodpecker, or AEA), but I wanted to keep the mic/pre combo around $800 or less (looking at slightly used preamps).

So, I'm sure I'll be happy with either preamp, given my situation, and either one should complement my JoeMeek and C414 nicely. The routing flexibility of the ISA One is a nice bonus, but not a necessity, so the Grace M101 has me very tempted. I'm going to bring the FH-II and one of the singers down to Guitar Center next week to try out the ISA One, but, unfortunately, no stores near me have the Grace in stock.

ahhhhh, now I got it. Makes perfect sense then as I didn't realise you already had some good and versatile condensers.

A ribbon would be perfect addition to what you already have and frankly there's only a couple of things you can't then do with your current kit. You're assembling a nice array there.

The FH is the right solution for you then - we use the Royer 121 for nearly every session in one way or another and the FH is very close to it. I can't think of another ribbon that is better at that price.

The only thing I would watch out for is when you have someone with a very thin tone of voice or weak vocals as it can make the vocal sound a tiny bit cold and expose the flaws. It's a great mic though - I'd happily use it for overheads, drum room, on woodwind and brass and especially anything with strings.

It's a difficult choice: the isa offers a lot more features and the grace metering is basically nothing more than a clip light (which wouldn't bother me but some people really rely on it). The grace is just clean and simple, with virtually no coloring - it's just straight up quality amplification. It's also superb for guitars and the DI is amazing quality.

The ISA is not as clean but is more versatile, has way more options, I/O and great VU metering. In some ways it's better value.

For me, I would go grace just because the engineer in me wants to go to disk as clean as possible and the grace does that better than the ISA. The grace really is the first serious pre at that money. All the rest are prosumer.

what mic would you recommend for a pop singer that can project very good. Also , I want it to be better than Cryophoniks mic. Well more expensive. But I am actually serious. Looking for a microphone that can handle singers that don't whisper. I suppose my budget would be ideally 1000 - 1500 but I can stretch to 2000 if there really is something special at that range. I don't have a treated booth and use a reflection filter and use the apogee pre's so I wonder if it would make much difference. Her voice is pretty much flawless so just a clean mic that is good.

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Originally posted by Mad for Brad Her voice is pretty much flawless.

So, it's for you then?

Get the one the one that I want and DJ RANN already recommended - Mojave MA-200. Then, you'll be more betterer than me and I'll be jealous.

i've been recommended the AKG 414B-ULS

I suppose the sort of voice is like Christina Aguilera. Very loud.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN The ISA is not as clean but is more versatile, has way more options, I/O and great VU metering. In some ways it's better value. For me, I would go grace just because the engineer in me wants to go to disk as clean as possible and the grace does that better than the ISA. The grace really is the first serious pre at that money. All the rest are prosumer.

Thanks DJ RANN! Lots to consider there. I think my plan (for now) is to try out the mic with an ISA One at GC next week and see what I think. I do like the cost/features that it offers, so if it turns me off for some reason, I'll go with the Grace. The reality is, I'm sure that I won't appreciate the difference in clean-ness between the two as much as a working pro like yourself would and versatility is definitely a big plus for me, considering that I have so many different singers (whisperers, I guess?). Actually, on a related note, two of the singers that I work with actually sing quite loud, to the point where I've needed to compress them lightly on occasion, and the ISA One would allow me to insert my OneQ's compressor if needed, whereas the M101 doesn't have that option.

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Originally posted by Mad for Brad i've been recommended the AKG 414B-ULS

Nice mic - I had one of those before I bought my XL II.

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Originally posted by Mad for Brad what mic would you recommend for a pop singer that can project very good. Also , I want it to be better than Cryophoniks mic. Well more expensive. But I am actually serious. Looking for a microphone that can handle singers that don't whisper. I suppose my budget would be ideally 1000 - 1500 but I can stretch to 2000 if there really is something special at that range. I don't have a treated booth and use a reflection filter and use the apogee pre's so I wonder if it would make much difference. Her voice is pretty much flawless so just a clean mic that is good.

The $2000 range is a tough one; there are some great mics (sound vs value) around the $1500 mark but over the $2000 range you start to get into vintage Neumann territory and that's whole range of consideration not to mention another thread.

Hands down, one of the best mics under $1500 is the Peluso VTB. You can go loud on on it (used in a lot of major R&B and Rap releases) but it's really smooth and musical. If I had $1500 and were only allowed one mic to do a vocal session, that's probably what I'd pick.

It's basically a close contender to the Sony c800g which is close to $10,000 retail and it's pretty damn close.

Another contender is the pearlman TM1 (used it once) which was really fucking beautiful but just check which tube you're going for as some have higher noise floor than others.

A lot of people recommend U87 but I have no love for them. It really is not a mic I hold in high regard and would grab several other mics a fraction of the cost without even thinking about the 87.

If you ended up with a TM1 or VTB you're in a great place. I can't really justify spending more than that because you start to get in to big price jumps and diminishing returns.

Let me know if you need more info.

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Originally posted by cryophonik Thanks DJ RANN! Lots to consider there. I think my plan (for now) is to try out the mic with an ISA One at GC next week and see what I think. I do like the cost/features that it offers, so if it turns me off for some reason, I'll go with the Grace. The reality is, I'm sure that I won't appreciate the difference in clean-ness between the two as much as a working pro like yourself would and versatility is definitely a big plus for me, considering that I have so many different singers (whisperers, I guess?). Actually, on a related note, two of the singers that I work with actually sing quite loud, to the point where I've needed to compress them lightly on occasion, and the ISA One would allow me to insert my OneQ's compressor if needed, whereas the M101 doesn't have that option.

That sounds sensible - then if the ISA doesn't turn you off, go for it. If it doesn't feel right then do the grace. TBH, you're in a good place either way. The ISA will let you do inserts which is suppose is a big bonus and bear in mind the sort of differences are quite minute and audiophile-ish so go with it if it sounds good to you and it does what you need it to do.

@M4B - the 414BULS is a great mic, I've used it a lot and incredibly versatile - you can also fucking scream at that thing without it getting clippy. I personally find it just a tiny little bit dead and can be slightly dull (not bright) but the detail is really great and aside from one other mic it really can be called the swiss army knife of the studio. Every studio should have a 414, period.

At that price though, and if it were for vox, I'd be reaching for the Majove MA200 rather than the 414, unless they really scream.

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