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deadmau5 will be playing at the MTV VMA's tonight

This is good for dance music in the US. It'll be interesting to see what song he picks...

Wonder how this thread will turn out..

Re: deadmau5 will be playing at the MTV VMA's tonight

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Originally posted by osterzone This is good for dance music in the US.

Why do you say that?

This is, of course, the only reason I'm watching the VMAs tonight.

Also, is it just me, or is it really weird that a pretty good chunk of the audience tonight will no doubt be watching because Deadmau5 will be DJing, and yet that fact is NEVER advertised?

Re: Re: deadmau5 will be playing at the MTV VMA's tonight

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Originally posted by Acton Why do you say that?

EDM is a product. You have to get people interested in a product before they buy into it, and deadmau5's performance tonight is a sales pitch for EDM.

He's sharing the same stage as Lady Gaga, Justin Beiber, Eminem, Linkin Park, etc.- each artists that can sell out any arena in any place in the world, some even football stadiums too. So millions of people will be watching tonight.

If he can get people to buy into the product, then they'll eventually branch off into other parts of EDM. Nobody gets into a particular genre of music and only listen to one artist. People here got into trance in the early 2000's through mainstream guys like Tiesto and AVB, but now they listen to obscure tech-house, techno, etc. Those genres get ZERO airplay on US radio, so the gateway for those people to discover that music were the mainstream guys.

So basically deadmau5 is like a salesman tonight. If more US people get into EDM, there will be more international DJ bookings here, more exposure for the industry...more money. It's not an overnight effect, but people have to develop an interest in EDM somewhere.

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Originally posted by Scrittah Also, is it just me, or is it really weird that a pretty good chunk of the audience tonight will no doubt be watching because Deadmau5 will be DJing, and yet that fact is NEVER advertised?

I highly doubt that very many people are tuning in for deadmau5. Have you forgotten that like 80% of the US populous likes Lady Gaga, Eminem, Linkin Park, etc?

Re: Re: Re: deadmau5 will be playing at the MTV VMA's tonight

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Originally posted by osterzone EDM is a product. You have to get people interested in a product before they buy into it, and deadmau5's performance tonight is a sales pitch for EDM. He's sharing the same stage as Lady Gaga, Justin Beiber, Eminem, Linkin Park, etc.- each artists that can sell out any arena in any place in the world, some even football stadiums too. So millions of people will be watching tonight. If he can get people to buy into the product, then they'll eventually branch off into other parts of EDM. Nobody gets into a particular genre of music and only listen to one artist. People here got into trance in the early 2000's through mainstream guys like Tiesto and AVB, but now they listen to obscure tech-house, techno, etc. Those genres get ZERO airplay on US radio, so the gateway for those people to discover that music were the mainstream guys. So basically deadmau5 is like a salesman tonight. If more US people get into EDM, there will be more international DJ bookings here, more exposure for the industry...more money. It's not an overnight effect, but people have to develop an interest in EDM somewhere.

I think it's a possibility it could improve electronic music's accessibility to a wider market but, the fact he is doing the MTV Awards indicates that much of that has already occurred. Really, it seems like the established music industry is merely acknowledging that much of their market share has migrated to this and they're playing catch up.

In terms of improving overall quality, Deadmau5 and his peers haven't done much for that. While capable to putting together quality tunes, Mau5 simply hasn't and with Guetta, Tiesto, and AvB inasmuch humiliating themselves with long-standing fans and insiders, any resulting trend will likely be for the music industry to follow the established continuum and continue to put out dumbed down crap which will only ever appeal to the largest cross-section of the market-share.

As was predicted when techno (house, trance, et al) first started moving into the mainstream, quite a few years ago, carpetbaggers, like Ian Van Dahl, have leached onto it with a quick ability to churn out Top 40 music with Dance Club sensibility. Mau5's performance tonight is yet another notch on the time-line, illustrative of a decline towards an acceptable level of mediocrity predicated on its ability to achieve, not a furtherance of music, but the largest segment in its market.

Re: Re: Re: Re: deadmau5 will be playing at the MTV VMA's tonight

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Originally posted by EddieZilker I think it's a possibility it could improve electronic music's accessibility to a wider market but, the fact he is doing the MTV Awards indicates that much of that has already occurred. Really, it seems like the established music industry is merely acknowledging that much of their market share has migrated to this and they're playing catch up. In terms of improving overall quality, Deadmau5 and his peers haven't done much for that. While capable to putting together quality tunes, Mau5 simply hasn't and with Guetta, Tiesto, and AvB inasmuch humiliating themselves with long-standing fans and insiders, any resulting trend will likely be for the music industry to follow the established continuum and continue to put out dumbed down crap which will only ever appeal to the largest cross-section of the market-share. As was predicted when techno (house, trance, et al) first started moving into the mainstream, quite a few years ago, carpetbaggers, like Ian Van Dahl, have leached onto it with a quick ability to churn out Top 40 music with Dance Club sensibility. Mau5's performance tonight is yet another notch on the time-line, illustrative of a decline towards an acceptable level of mediocrity predicated on its ability to achieve, not a furtherance of music, but the largest segment in its market.

But throughout history, you've always had popular artists producing generic mainstream stuff just for sales. It's part of the lifeblood of the industry.

One artist making mediocre music doesn't mean thousands of other artists will follow suit.

Re: Re: Re: Re: deadmau5 will be playing at the MTV VMA's tonight

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Originally posted by EddieZilker As was predicted when techno (house, trance, et al) first started moving into the mainstream, quite a few years ago, carpetbaggers, like Ian Van Dahl, have leached onto it with a quick ability to churn out Top 40 music with Dance Club sensibility. Mau5's performance tonight is yet another notch on the time-line, illustrative of a decline towards an acceptable level of mediocrity predicated on its ability to achieve, not a furtherance of music, but the largest segment in its market.

Nonsense. You're taking an extremely US-centric perspective and trying to apply it to European acts like Ian Van Dahl. Do you think cheesy pop-dance wasn't invented until Americans started caring about dance music?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: deadmau5 will be playing at the MTV VMA's tonight

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Nonsense. You're taking an extremely US-centric perspective and trying to apply it to European acts like Ian Van Dahl. Do you think cheesy pop-dance wasn't invented until Americans started caring about dance music?

By cheesy pop dance are you referring to stuff like Cascada "Everytime We Touch" or Armada vocal trance?

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Originally posted by ziptnf I highly doubt that very many people are tuning in for deadmau5. Have you forgotten that like 80% of the US populous likes Lady Gaga, Eminem, Linkin Park, etc?

Probably true, but you'd be suprised how many people at my school (where a good chunk of the students think Led Zeppelin is Jimmy Page's name) recognize deadmau5's name, even if the only thing by him they know is Strobe.

I thought you said you weren't going to post to MD.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: deadmau5 will be playing at the MTV VMA's tonight

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Nonsense. You're taking an extremely US-centric perspective and trying to apply it to European acts like Ian Van Dahl. Do you think cheesy pop-dance wasn't invented until Americans started caring about dance music?

Not at all. Fact of the matter is that I wouldn't have owned one of his vinyl sets were it not for the success of "Castles in the Sky" - a song which borrows heavily from hooks and riffs familiar to hyper-melody driven trance. "CitS" even made regular radio play in PM rotations on stations, in the US - not a small feet, considering how it competed for rotation against mainstream hip hop and RnB acts. The double album, while very "Euro" (I make the distinction quite loosely since much of what I heard could be found on most top 40 radio stations were it not for the fact that the hooks seemed a little too esoteric in their formation) - Pop, also played to a dance-floor borrowing sensibilities from both house and trance. Dahl, regardless of his regional notoriety, simply proves the rule.

He is indicative of a trend which, while his particular strain may have failed as early as 2003-2004, to catch on here in America, is still being followed. Many of the recent tracks from Armada seem almost predicated on a format Dahl was using, in his brief time in Top 40 America rotation.

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Originally posted by osterzone But throughout history, you've always had popular artists producing generic mainstream stuff just for sales. It's part of the lifeblood of the industry. One artist making mediocre music doesn't mean thousands of other artists will follow suit.

Certainly, thousands of other artists aren't going to follow suit. You will also witness the rare outlier; a la Pink Floyd, Queen, David Bowie, et al who does something as genius and extraordinary as it is accessible. What you will find, however, is that the more mainstream the music gets, the people who the media will follow will be somewhere in the middle between utterly mediocre and somewhat talented.

Your point about making money on the music is relevant but what it will cause is definitely not an improvement in quality. More-over, the motivation for money will only ever reinforce short-comings in music authoring which are acceptable to the public. As much music which appeals to the largest market share is the goal. To take the time required for a major project that could eat up thousands of dollars in studio time, equipment, et al could wind up costing a lot of money yet not appeal to many people. It's simply not a good business model to focus expenses on building a Lexus which will only ever sell for the price of a Scion to a market segment which won't be nearly as large as those who are interested in less sophistication.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: deadmau5 will be playing at the MTV VMA's tonight

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Originally posted by EddieZilker He is indicative of a trend which, while his particular strain may have failed as early as 2003-2004, to catch on here in America, is still being followed.

Which trend is that? Some of your sentences in this thread are rambling to the point they no longer obey syntax. I'm having trouble extracting a genuine point from your posturing language.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: deadmau5 will be playing at the MTV VMA's tonight

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Which trend is that? Some of your sentences in this thread are rambling to the point they no longer obey syntax. I'm having trouble extracting a genuine point from your posturing language.

Sorry. Not trying to posture, at all. Merely multi-tasking and unfocused while presuming a commonly understood context. My actual aim is to have a reasonable discussion but I understand the deductions you're making - re: posturing/rambling. I'll try to be more concise.

My intent with the word, trend, was to indicate the totality of marketing goals and strategies involved associated with their product(s). Armada, used as my example, is a company which seems strategically positioned to take advantage of the market as it appears to be shifting.





EDIT: GAH! Reduncity

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery I thought you said you weren't going to post to MD.

And that's what drew my attention to this thread

Veni, vidi, rofli.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery I thought you said you weren't going to post to MD.

you my friend.. are what we call dense

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: deadmau5 will be playing at the MTV VMA's tonight

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Originally posted by EddieZilker My intent with the word, trend, was meant to indicate the totality of marketing goals and strategies involved associated with their product(s). Armada, used as my example, is a company which seems strategically positioned to take advantage of the market as it appears to be shifting.

Right, but in worldwide terms this commercial colonisation of dance music has been going on for over 20 years, and pop music has been exploiting dance music for far longer than that. The US tends to be a late bloomer, rather than a pace-setter. If dance music suddenly becomes more popular in America it's more likely to be a symptom than a cause of an overall change in dance music.

You'll probably get a lot of watered-down, bastardised and commercialised music as a result of a popularity spike, but at the same time there'll probably be a lot more good events spring up. You can't have a thriving underground with no commercial response, and vice versa. Dance music is probably more popular in the UK than anywhere else in the world, but I wonder how many American cities can rival mine for nightlife.

Re: deadmau5 will be playing at the MTV VMA's tonight

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Originally posted by osterzone This is good for dance music in the US. It'll be interesting to see what song he picks...

over exposure of a product doesn't always make it better. I would suggest the exact opposite...that him appearing on MTV will be more destructive then anything else.

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Originally posted by Kaity you my friend.. are what we call dense

Your Horatio Caine impression sucks.

Re: deadmau5 will be playing at the MTV VMA's tonight

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Originally posted by osterzone This is good for dance music in the US.

This is wrong on so many counts.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: deadmau5 will be playing at the MTV VMA's tonight

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Right, but in worldwide terms this commercial colonisation of dance music has been going on for over 20 years, and pop music has been exploiting dance music for far longer than that. The US tends to be a late bloomer, rather than a pace-setter. If dance music suddenly becomes more popular in America it's more likely to be a symptom than a cause of an overall change in dance music.

I'd have to agree, 100% with this.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J You'll probably get a lot of watered-down, bastardised and commercialised music as a result of a popularity spike, but at the same time there'll probably be a lot more good events spring up. You can't have a thriving underground with no commercial response, and vice versa. Dance music is probably more popular in the UK than anywhere else in the world, but I wonder how many American cities can rival mine for nightlife.

If only I lived in a major city and not a back-water college town. I'd be able to speak to it with a more informed voice. As things stand, currently, I am invested in the making music side of it with zero interaction with the commercial part, apart from reading, here. I don't go to clubs. Even if I lived near them, I'd probably still have no interest in doing so.

Judging by prior experience, however, you're not going to find a scene as cultivated as what you enjoy in Europe, today or in the near future. To dovetail into your point above, what you would find in America is a fractured scene. You have the commercial clubs and the corporate raves but those have largely been homogenized in one form or another. Not that you wouldn't find some place on some night, entertaining, but really I think it's boiled down to the same club politics and drama and fairly dispensed with the good will exhibited, here, at the high-water mark of the rave culture in the late nineties.

To be fair, maybe clubs are what they are, no matter your geography. Whether you turn the flood lights on here or in London, when the club has just emptied, the illusion is ripped and you're still left with blood and vomit stains in the corners underneath the layer of cigarette ash and spilled Kamikaze. I have reason to believe the scene in your area is more advanced but I question if, in my years, I would see it in the same light as you or would I be more jaded about it all.

Then you have what I refer to as the club refugee cooperatives. Small bands of friends and acquaintances, similarly minded, who are utterly tired of the 21+ scene and its attendant drama. They get together at someone's house, pass the pipe, have a few beers and sometimes even barbecue while their friends take turns on the deck.

In many ways, it resembles the get-togethers of my parents had with their friends. Where as, it would appear that electronic music enjoys main-stream success in Europe, in America, it is the new folk music. Banjos and guitars have been replaced with turn-tables. If I could find one of these places, I'd probably hang out, there.

I'm very excited. I'm hoping this creates a 10-fold increase of osterzones on this forum. That would be awesome.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: deadmau5 will be playing at the MTV VMA's tonight

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Originally posted by EddieZilker To be fair, maybe clubs are what they are, no matter your geography. Whether you turn the flood lights on here or in London, when the club has just emptied, the illusion is ripped and you're still left with blood and vomit stains in the corners underneath the layer of cigarette ash and spilled Kamikaze. I have reason to believe the scene in your area is more advanced but I question if, in my years, I would see it in the same light as you or would I be more jaded about it all.

Bullshit. Utter bullshit. I've lived in backwater towns where clubs were nightmarish meat markets and the DJs Top 40 rapists. If you can't feel any difference then I feel sorry for you. I spent most of my life in a small town in the middle of nowhere that didn't even have a record shop, dreaming of this scene where there were like-minded people and great parties. I had a moment recently when I was walking down Oldham Street in Manchester, record shopping to kill time before I saw Leftfield, and I stopped outside a shop window that was displaying the new Alaska LP. I realised I was living my dream. I might not always want to go out on a Friday night and one day I might get bored of it, but I'll always have the freedom to choose. There are thousands of people in America, many of them on this forum, who have that dream.

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