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-- key matching?
key matching?
ok, i ave been spinning for about 8 months, i know how to beatmatch to precision, and i got level matching with eqs and volume down. but my question is how to key match? i know when the key of two records are close, but i don't know the actual letter. i have put together some good personal mixes and such, but i would like to know how to key match so i can open up the possiblities of mixing. i have never been taught piano or anything related to notation (not guitar...nothing)...so i was wondering is there a website that i can learn about keys and notes...or better yet a software/program that detects keys and/or notes. any help is very appreciated.
thanks
beatnik
I don't think that many people do key matching for two reasons: first, most peoples' ears aren't trained well enough that they can tell the difference between two different keys or well enough that it annoys them when pitches are off. Second, pitch changes as you adjust speed, so in order to pitch match you'd have to screw up the speed, which would defeat the beatmatching. Your only solutions, as far as I can see, are to either pick tracks of the same key or harmonically matched keys, or use your equalizers to kill bass pitches in your transitions. Either that or just ignore it and know that most people don't care as long as the change isn't to terribly off.
I have perfect pitch, so it's sometimes annoying to me when keys are different, but I've learned to ignore it in the case of mixing or listening to mixes.
Hey Trypsin, what's going on? 
Anyways.....There's no way you are going to be able to tell keys unless you play piano or are a musical genius. I was never taught piano yet I play classical music quite well (trombones represent!!!!) and I can't really tell what key is what.
But my friend can tell you exactly what key something is in almost right away and he was trained on piano.
I wish I was trained on piano because it automatically makes you proficient in ear training and composition.
I can tell you the key by looking at a passage but not from hearing it (well, I can tell you if it is major or minor or in c but that's it)
In short, noone cares about everything being in the same key. Just try not to make it glarringly obvious (for example, Don't mix a song in major with a song in some other fucked up key because you can have a perfect transistion but it will still sound off to some people).
Trypsin is right, most people out there are ignorant of keys and such so as long as the two songs are relativly close, then you will be set.
I find key-matching as a bonus. If two songs blend perfectly together key-wise when they are beatmatched, then great. Otherwise, I don't bother, because it will limit the amount of songs you can mix into the one playing. And thats no fun. :P
just make sure you work the eq's right so the basslines and melodies don't clash when the keys are different.
www.djprince.net is a good place to start.
Ray_Finkle! Nada mucho, mate. Didn't know you play 'bone... I'm a french horn man myself. Brass playaz reprazent!
By changing the pitch control while beatmatching, you're changing the key up or down with the speed of the record.
You do notice if someone is playing in the wrong key. An easy way to check this if your playing in a band is to play your part a semitone higher than what it should be and you'll notice it sounding crap.
I think key matching is either luck, or someone has prepared 2 records that they know are key matched when beat matched.
Unless by key matched you mean not exactly the same key but matching minor keys to minor keys and major keys to major keys.
I don't think there are that many trance tracks that are written in a minor key... that would be interesting to find out, though.
Erm... most trance tracks are in minor key...
The ones in major key are those that generally have that happy feeling (like summer anthems).
I wouldn't say luck , I mix in keys, my records are sorted by key. It's just a matter of developping a good method.
You have to have a certain musical sense to discern what key it is. I mean seriously, how many people are gonna be able to tell whether a song is in a major or it's relative minor key? I doubt many people will be able to hear the accidentals used to make a song a minor one.
and all epic trance is pretty much major.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Ray_Finkle You have to have a certain musical sense to discern what key it is. I mean seriously, how many people are gonna be able to tell whether a song is in a major or it's relative minor key? |
well most people can't. plain and simple. unless they have superb musical knowlege. how else are you gonna
a) figure out what key it is in just from hearing it
b) figure out if there are any accidentals that would then make the key minor. most people would automatically assume that the key is major however there could be accidentals which means that you have to use the relative minor.
My music theory is a little vague because I haven't taken music in awhile (read: 3 months) so if anyone can help me clarify (typsin?) then by all means go ahead.
Your right I don't think people would work out what key exactly it is just by listening to it. Especialy because of the pitch control, you could be half way between two semitones and not in any key.
But if beatnik16 has the time and wants to learn, he/she could learn to discern between minor and major. I personally think it would be a waste of time but hey, it's up to him/her.
key matching is pretty impossible.. i know music because i played various instruments throughout growing up (from percussion to strings and brass), although this is not necessary to be able to notice key differences unless you are tone-deaf.. anyhow, i do not believe this is necessary. mainly because of what has been said, by adjusting the pitch, u are changing the speed, well pitch actually, and thus, the notes will change too, so unless you are mixing two songs that were made in the same or compatible keys and are the same bpm, u will not be able to match the keys unless u decide to not beatmatch. unless, u have a mixer that can adjust tone w/o speeding up the record, if i'm not mistaken, the djm600 can do this but i don't remember because i never played with that particular effect.. so basically, if u are mixing two songs that really conflict harmonically, try fading in during the beats and cut the first track out before any musical notes start playing from the second tune.
the vestax pdx2000 has this feature. it has a second slider that changes the tempo without affecting the pitch. which means that keys are not affected either...
yeah but those features make the record sound like a train wrek. And you've only got one record one. Imaging having both at the same time with key control. lol.
Hmm you guys have some points, but theory differs from practical use quite often.
Take two tunes that have the same key at nominal speed (so when those tunes are at their 0%). But one tune is slower than the other.
Theory says that when pitching up/down tunes, a difference of 5.9% will mean a difference of one semitone (for the guys that know nothing of music, picture a piano, hit one key, the key next to it is a semitone).
Theoretically when you calculate, this means that at (roughly) 3%, the difference will be a quarter tone. Two tunes at a quarter tone will sound pretty crappy, in theory...
But from experience I can tell it will still sound good. Up to say 4.5-5% it will still be good enough to call it an harmonic mix.
Once you go over that, you're better off to take another record (either same key at roughly the same speed, or a semitone difference if the speed difference is high).
I agree, harmonic mixing isn't required to make good mixes. Harmonic mixing is an extra. I just found that mixes needed something more, and harmonic mixing has that little extra. When you know the keys, it's much easier to make perfect blending mixes whereever you want (no clashing basslines, and don't tell me use the EQ, you'll still perceive it as wrong, and no boring intro-outro mixing). But it gets even funnier if you try mixing more than two records. Mixing in chords. It's very very difficult with melodical trance, because so much is going on. But knowing your keys makes it a whole lot easier, and when you're able to pull of such mixes, believe me, you'll be happy you did.
You'll notice, though, that if you use a setup that adjusts speed without affecting pitch that it causes strange clipping effects on synth pads. It's not super noticeable in all cases, but on some songs it sounds wierd.
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