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Noob Remixing Question

Ok...for many years I have actually wondered about this.

How do DJ's actually "remix" songs? What I am mean is, how are they able to use parts that are actual cuts off the original and then use self created material to re-create the song.

To me, to get an isolated track from a major artist means they would almost have to score the master track and breakdown each channel.
Then use there own material from keyboards, samples, etc.

Back in the day, I know that is probably how they did it. But now days I am hearing so many remixes from certain artists that contain original pieces from a song they create

Either you get the parts from the original artist (or label) or you sample a piece of the finished track and use it.

Right, thats what I thought. But it seems that now days that is a thing of the past.
As I mentioned, I am hearing remixes of songs that include way to much to be a sample and from Dj's that dont have enough recognition toland them a master.
I have heard that software like Acid or Soundforge can eliminate vocals,but...I thought that was impossible to do,especially if vocals are recorded on a center channel. In essence, this is what I am talking about. These remixes are essentially taking songs without vocals and doing some altering and I am curious as to how they are doing so.

Alot of places run remix competitions quite frequently.

Often you get the stems for the song or bits of it.

Crap thing is alot of the time these days they expect you to pay for the stems for the opportunity to do it(glares at beatport).

Stems and shit?

Really?

I'd have though almost all remixes these days were done from midi only?

I actually fail to see why you'd want the original parts at all, apart from maybe the odd really cool effect or something that is impossible to emulate and you wanted to include (I'm thinking of that delayed percussive bit in Energy 52 - Cafe Del Mar for example)

Other than that building your own sounds is the remix no?

I guess Im a purist at heart.
If a song standing alone is a great piece of work I believe that I should keep the integrity of the original work.

IE: DJ Ztrip's work on Tom Sawyer from Rush. He used every single element that Rush used in creating Tom Sawyer, but merely re worked the composition and arrangement.

Today, I heard 7 mixes of Neyo's Beautiful Monster. All of those were re worked in some manner and the pieces they used were straight from a master reel of some sort.Had to of been as the samples [if they were] were way to long to not have been.
And these mixes are from unknown DJ's, at least...I had never heard of them.

So, it got me thinking and wanted to get your guys opinions

quote:

Originally posted by Lunar Phase 7 Stems and shit? Really? I'd have though almost all remixes these days were done from midi only? I actually fail to see why you'd want the original parts at all, apart from maybe the odd really cool effect or something that is impossible to emulate and you wanted to include (I'm thinking of that delayed percussive bit in Energy 52 - Cafe Del Mar for example) Other than that building your own sounds is the remix no?

facepalm.

ofcourse everyone has a different style when remixing(thats what makes you, you), personally i always like to use some stems included, always. ultimately atleast some stems fit because im focused in the same genre of the original more-or-less. not a fan of using remix midi, unless to check out chords.

op. all labels will send you a remix pack if you're doing this legitimately. well at-least every single artist i have dealt with, and some colleagues. its normal. like pagan said, there are plenty of remix competitions around, you could try those to get a good feel at what remix packs usually contain.

also, someone correct me if im wrong, but if you're home-sampling a released track, its technically called a "bootleg".

quote:

Originally posted by MSZ op. all labels will send you a remix pack if you're doing this legitimately. well at-least every single artist i have dealt with, and some colleagues. its normal. like pagan said, there are plenty of remix competitions around, you could try those to get a good feel at what remix packs usually contain.

This about sums up every experience I've had with remixes.

I've also worked with just vocals too.

what i've experienced is that big names give you less stems and midis than the unknown guys, if you make a remix for a small label they give you every single part of the track if you want it.

Personally i don't like very much when they only give you the main lead and some fx's i feel very limited as you need to get the melody and chords on the piano if you want to make some variation when for the producer is easy to export a midi...

quote:

Originally posted by Rodri Santos what i've experienced is that big names give you less stems and midis than the unknown guys, if you make a remix for a small label they give you every single part of the track if you want it. Personally i don't like very much when they only give you the main lead and some fx's i feel very limited as you need to get the melody and chords on the piano if you want to make some variation when for the producer is easy to export a midi...

The only issue with that is every remix ends up sounding exactly the same.

I recently started a remix of a track that I tried to make different, and then I heard all the other entries and they all sounded identical. So I didn't bother in the end.

quote:

Originally posted by tehlord The only issue with that is every remix ends up sounding exactly the same. I recently started a remix of a track that I tried to make different, and then I heard all the other entries and they all sounded identical. So I didn't bother in the end.

Exactly, why the fuck bother with stems?

Getting the main lead? Really? Why not just Ejay the fucking song too?

Midi file for melody and then if its a vocal tune, the accapella. That's it really isn't it?

I think in this day it's not too much to ask for the midi's but I could work from just stems if needed.

The only thing with stems is that they are designed to allow only a small amount of alteration of the elements - in the true sense of stems, they only allow a different mixdown.

Yes, you can get creative with chopping them up etc but it's never going to be as easy as with the midis or audiofile packs.

I think any label or artist only giving stems is either being too controlling or lazy. The only valid excuse I can see is that they don't want an acapella ripped off but seriously, they could just get someone else to sing it if they wanted it that badly.

I hate the idea of stems. Hell, even MIDIs are kind of a turn off for me, unless it's a track with a part I can't figure out by ear. People have enough flexibility in electronica to emulate sounds where necessary and come up with new parts on their own equipment instead of relying on pieces of the original track.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN ...they could just get someone else to sing it if they wanted it that badly.

That seems to be occurring more and more frequently lately. I've noticed a lot of popular tracks from yesteryear being re-recorded with new vocalists. Similar elements, same lyrics and vocal style, but totally re-recorded and redone. Really these are more akin to a traditional "cover" than a remix, but still combine elements of both.

Some examples:

Redone version of "BT - Mercury & Solace" and originally sung by Jan Johnston:
Avatar One feat. Alexandra Greene - Mercury & Solace (Original Mix) 2010 HQ FULL Version Trance

Redone version of Roger Sanchez classic track "Another Chance"
Pilgrim - Another Chance (Passenger 10 Remix)

And of course our version of Not Over Yet, a re-sung version of Grace - Not Over Yet. We tried to pay homage to the original by reusing a lot of the same melodic themes. This version cuts off the intro and outro a bit, but you get the idea. No idea who did the video, but it wasn't us.
Kristine Grundmane - Not Over Yet (Mario & Eric J Remix)

And a great example of a classic non dance track redone by BT. BT doing a "dance" version of Dreams by Fleetwood Mac. Can't find this on YouTube, but its the first track in our Perfecto Collection mixed CD.
Mario & Eric J - The Perfecto Collection

quote:

Originally posted by Lunar Phase 7 Exactly, why the fuck bother with stems? Getting the main lead? Really? Why not just Ejay the fucking song too? Midi file for melody and then if its a vocal tune, the accapella. That's it really isn't it?

untrue, sounds like its coming from someone who is uncreative enough to utilize them in a more different way. ofcourse like i said, everyone is different, but to disregard it is pretty ignorant. how many tracks have you remixed? can i hear them?

quote:

Originally posted by Eric J That seems to be occurring more and more frequently lately. I've noticed a lot of popular tracks from yesteryear being re-recorded with new vocalists. Similar elements, same lyrics and vocal style, but totally re-recorded and redone. Really these are more akin to a traditional "cover" than a remix, but still combine elements of both. Some examples: Redone version of "BT - Mercury & Solace" and originally sung by Jan Johnston: Avatar One feat. Alexandra Greene - Mercury & Solace (Original Mix) 2010 HQ FULL Version Trance Redone version of Roger Sanchez classic track "Another Chance" Pilgrim - Another Chance (Passenger 10 Remix) And of course our version of Not Over Yet, a re-sung version of Grace - Not Over Yet. We tried to pay homage to the original by reusing a lot of the same melodic themes. This version cuts off the intro and outro a bit, but you get the idea. No idea who did the video, but it wasn't us. Kristine Grundmane - Not Over Yet (Mario & Eric J Remix) And a great example of a classic non dance track redone by BT. BT doing a "dance" version of Dreams by Fleetwood Mac. Can't find this on YouTube, but its the first track in our Perfecto Collection mixed CD. Mario & Eric J - The Perfecto Collection

I noticed that too (however I do like the new version of mercury and solace).

I think some of it has to do with money though - some artists ask for stupid sums for the rights of the original vocals, and in some cases the original vocalist won't allow their work to be reused.

I know with the track Black Legend "trouble with me" it was orignally a sample of Barry White. When the promo track started doing well they approached Barry White and asked for permission. He wanted $100,000 just to use his vocal.

They said hell no, re-recorded it with a impersonator and just paid the publisher $10,000 to use the lyrics.

I'm not sure, but I think that was the same case with Not over yet for Stephen's release. In fact, the remix that was really big in 1999 was even a vocal rerecord of the 1994 original. I don't actually think there's been a major commercial release of it that ever used the same vocal as the previous version.

quote:

Originally posted by MSZ untrue, sounds like its coming from someone who is uncreative enough to utilize them in a more different way. ofcourse like i said, everyone is different, but to disregard it is pretty ignorant. how many tracks have you remixed? can i hear them?

I think a MIDI file is pointless, and I agree that you can and maybe should take some actual audio from the origianl track and make something different with it.

The thing about the remix I started was that everybody pretty much took the track as it was, sped it up a tiny amount and put trance pads over the top.

That ain't a fucking remix you slags. That's a DJ mix.

I won't spam mine here, but I should have won it should I have entered

ya but thats their inability to do something creative with it, to blame the actual process of sampling some stems altogether is so wrong. i have a hunch this guy is one of those who are uncreative. lol i ramble too much xD

WoW! Nice feedback all, I do appreciate all of your insight to my question. It for sure answers what I was looking for.

I would say for me, like I previously mentioned,it is about preservation and integrity of the original piece.
Stems to me, if they are nearly a full set, stems that make up the song given are important due to the fact that no matter how big or small the length is, I can transform that in some fashion. Again, I dont want to re create a piece, just alter it to sound ...cooler =O)

Samples imo are limited to the actual composition you are working with.
Sure, you can change or alter it, but you are working sometimes with already composites of an arrangement. In essence, you arent really re mixing, your re arranging

After all, it is in my opinion that DJ's remix a song for one of two reasons.
1: They were either moved and influenced enough to do so
2: They felt the song lacked something,whether dynamics or ambient textures or just plain lackluster

So. in a nutshell, I am beginning to see that these songs I have been hearing could be given by the artist. Whether samples or stems.
But how in the world these no name dj's are getting them are beyond me.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN I noticed that too (however I do like the new version of mercury and solace).

Agreed. I heard it first on Matt Darey's Nocturnal podcast, and when it came in, I was like "Wait, this sounds familiar..." At least if they are going to do this stuff, they do a decent job.

quote:

Originally posted by MSZ ya but thats their inability to do something creative with it, to blame the actual process of sampling some stems altogether is so wrong. i have a hunch this guy is one of those who are uncreative. lol i ramble too much xD

I think a remix competion should be vreated where the prize goes to the person who makes it sound the least like the original, while still being a chesive and listenable track.

Where's Brad? He can fund the prizes.

quote:

Originally posted by tehlord I think a remix competion should be vreated where the prize goes to the person who makes it sound the least like the original, while still being a chesive and listenable track. Where's Brad? He can fund the prizes.

if only he paid in love

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN I know with the track Black Legend "trouble with me" it was orignally a sample of Barry White. When the promo track started doing well they approached Barry White and asked for permission. He wanted $100,000 just to use his vocal. They said hell no, re-recorded it with a impersonator and just paid the publisher $10,000 to use the lyrics.

I believe its the same story for LMC vs U2 "take me to the clouds above". The promo had Whitney Houston's vocals on it but was redone for commercial release.

quote:

Originally posted by Eric J Agreed. I heard it first on Matt Darey's Nocturnal podcast, and when it came in, I was like "Wait, this sounds familiar..." At least if they are going to do this stuff, they do a decent job.

No shit - Me too! about two weeks ago. I was driving and heard it and thought "Hang On...". They did a really good interpretation of a classic without overdoing it or trying to change it far too much. It took me a second because the bassline on the original is so distinctive.

Still waiting for your instrumental version of Not over Yet

It's up to the people how they use the material, you can just get the chords and make a completely different melody, or change the arpeggio most trance melodies have. With this tiny effort you are changing the track from the ground.

After that you make new percussion, add some extra lines of melodies on top of the track and it's possibly a new track.

I agree most remixes are identicall to the original, sometimes the original hasn't got good sound picks but the melody and the overall idea is good so i understand some people simply make their own interpretation of that good idea. But usually is just the same song with slight differences.

This is the most different remix i remember hearing last year:



Sounds nothing like the original, and is great.

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