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Producing in MONO , what why how !?

I've been hearing alot lately about producers going through the whole production process while in mono , how is this a good way , how do they revert back to stereo , I mean , if you just disable the mono utility or what ever is used to output in mono , it would sound horrible
Anybody here do that ?

disable the mono utility? i doubt they produce entirely in mono but eqing, leveling etc might be easier in mono. im considering a third monitor just on top of the pc screen for this use. not sure it has anything to say really though.

quote:

Originally posted by ken_lee disable the mono utility? i doubt they produce entirely in mono but eqing, leveling etc might be easier in mono. im considering a third monitor just on top of the pc screen for this use. not sure it has anything to say really though.

well I use ableton and I use something that is called utility to switch to mono , so I was referring to that , but never mind the concept is clear .

back to subject , even eqing sounds different in stereo compared to mono , so whats the benefit , if it sound good in mono it will be better in stereo , seems odd to me

i think the point isnt really mono, but to have only one soundsource in the middle, IE one speaker right in front of you for better monitoring (less noise from ambience). which can only be mono of course. consider it extreme nearfield. but if your track has stereo content alot of stuff will/might be phased out so u must control how it sounds both stereo and mono, with stereo as the most important aspect. its important to know how it sounds in mono too cause that might happen to be the case on radio, in clubs etc. But i really dont know, Ive never done it, except that my old monitoring device and dj mixer had a mono button making it easy just to be sure it sounds decent.

well this I can relate to , as mono need to be treated too , many times a track will lack many aspects when in mono , happened to me alot

A lot of club systems are mono, so it's a good idea to check your track still sounds ok in mono. But that's easy enough: you either convert a final render to mono and check that sounds alright, or use a plugin to do it... most stereo enhancers can also reduce the stereo width right down to mono. The things you're looking out for are usually phasing/flanging effects which can occur from sounds being slightly delayed between the two channels, sounds getting lost when put into a mono mix, etc.

I don't see why anyone would produce in mono from the start, arranging things in the stereo field is one of my favourite parts of the process!

Good point that mixing down in mono might be easier - not something I've tried but I might give it a go now.

I did a brief bit of research and it seems that most club systems are still mono. Very interesting that it hasn't been updated.. I guess it doesn't need to be and they chose mono for a reason.

That being said, it will still sound like shit on the radio (podcasts or whatever) if you go through the entire mixing process using mono only. I would say just reference check it in mono along the way, making adjustments as needed if what you hear in mono isn't as you intend. I believe I read in an interview that Deadmau5 does this, but even if he doesn't, it's a common practice.

These days, it's just as important for the track to sound great on headphones as it does on a club system.

There are some simple (and free) VSTs out there for converting your track to mono. It may be buggy, but give it a try : Mg Mono VST

quote:

Originally posted by Eric J Stereo as a principle only works with respect to the listeners position in relation to the position of the speakers. If I'm on a dance floor standing on the left side of the club, I'm only going to hear the left side of the stereo image. Not everyone in the club will be standing (or dancing) in a good position to get the "stereo effect", so it makes more sense to collapse the signal to mono so that anywhere you are in the club, your listening experience can remain consistent.

I've read a lot about this but thats a really excellent point about why to at least check in mono.

yeah there seems to be good enough reason to atleast checkout the track in mono before handing it over , and this has to be done throughout the production process to avoid any headaches later

I've just started using anti-phase meters. Some tracks I monitor, they have really wide parts in them, and the spikes on the meter shoot right off, and from what I've read this is a no-no, but these tracks are played on radio and in clubs and are obviously fine. On the other hand some tracks don't peak at all and still sound like they have good width, and I have to say, these tracks do sound better production wise.

As a result I do try and watch what I do now and don't push the stereo spread like a used to.

phasing is actually what makes people's E just go mental. Don't think of it as a bad thing. Unless it is the bass well then you just killed the rave.

Listened to Robert Babicz - Pink Trees in Wavelab with the stereo width to 0% - thats distorted sawish stab at the start doesnt sound great in mono, loses a lot of volume...
Found it kinda surprising as he is on the of the top producers/mastering guys around, maybe mono compatibility doesnt matter as much as it used to???

yeah , i went on checking some tracks my self , many considered as club hits sounds horrible in mono

quote:

Originally posted by Eric J Stereo as a principle only works with respect to the listeners position in relation to the position of the speakers. If I'm on a dance floor standing on the left side of the club, I'm only going to hear the left side of the stereo image. Not everyone in the club will be standing (or dancing) in a good position to get the "stereo effect", so it makes more sense to collapse the signal to mono so that anywhere you are in the club, your listening experience can remain consistent.

This.

Some clubs do have stereo rigs, but they tend to be the kind with a very definite front, back, left and right. Venues which are also used for seated events (concerts, comedy shows, etc) are also more likely to have a stereo rig because often they'll use the same rig for all of their events.

I agree most of the time mono systems in clubs are fine and probably more appropriate than a stereo one, but in a bigger club which has a good stereo rig it can be awesome just sticking yourself in the middle of the dancefloor and absorbing it all in its high fidelity glory.

what i tend to do these days is check it in dual-mono on my hifi rig, switching on and off the mono-plug on Live's master channel - if nothing disappears or drops too drastically back in the mix then im happy enough...
I still use basslane quite a bit on basses and stuff, or back off the chorus if its set too heavily in a patch

Non topic again this......

only thing i can say, push the mono button every once and a while if you are in doubt to check and see if YOU are still happy.
There are no rules, or right or wrong. If you want a big stereofield you need to use phase or M/S

stereo field is a creative vision, try 70'ties Q-sound recordings in mono.

When producers say they produce in mono they probably mean that they convert every individual channel to mono, then pan it out as the last phase in the mixing process. It helps because it keeps everything that can be in mono mono, and also, when you pan a mono track out to the side, it sounds like it has more presence and punch in the mix than it would if it was wider. Overall, your track stays just as wide, because every individual track is panned off, but you maintain more control.

Its important, because most synth presets these days are far too wide, and this leaves your track with a wishy washy spectrum, and that often won't work in the dual mono setup they have in clubs. Encouraging people to stick to mono is also a good way of making sure that they go through and turn off the effects on their synths, which is always important when using presets, and which most people never do because they're lazy, or forget the effects section is still engaged while editing the patch.

Clubs are dual mono to help ensure that everyone on the floor can hear the whole track rather than losing bits and pieces of it if they stand a little to the left or right. Considering that (especially in trance) patches often use massive unison effects panned right out, this often means that the sound you want to be the fattest will suffer from horrible phase problems in a club, and will just eat up headroom on each individual channel while simultateneously phasing each other out.

quote:

Originally posted by Andy28 I've just started using anti-phase meters. Some tracks I monitor, they have really wide parts in them, and the spikes on the meter shoot right off, and from what I've read this is a no-no, but these tracks are played on radio and in clubs and are obviously fine. On the other hand some tracks don't peak at all and still sound like they have good width, and I have to say, these tracks do sound better production wise. As a result I do try and watch what I do now and don't push the stereo spread like a used to.

I'd mix with my ears by switching into mono occasionally, rather than with my eyes.

quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips When producers say they produce in mono they probably mean that they convert every individual channel to mono, then pan it out as the last phase in the mixing process.

can you please explain the panning out step , what do you mean by pan out ?

Pan your mono tracks out across the stereo spectrum.

quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips I'd mix with my ears by switching into mono occasionally, rather than with my eyes.

Yes that helps, I don't discard that, we've been down that road before

For fucks sake, can we please once and for all dispell the myth that all clubs are fucking MONO.

A hell of a lot of clubs are stereo, especially all the larger or higher spec ones, not to mention the venues which double up as threatre, live act or misc venues. I can count on one hand the number of venues I've been to in my life to that are only mono.

The misconception comes from two places: 1, what eric was describing as not being able to hear the full stereo spread unless you in the optimum listening position and...

2, Clubs that aren't stereo are DUAL MONO. It's not the same thing as saying MONO.

MONO means single source or channel. Dual Mono is two channels or two source so there is one channle for the L or one side of the PA and one for the R or other side

That means you don;t get the same sort of convergence between the two channels like in a stereo system (again mainly due to point number one above) but there is the inherent programmed differences of L vs R channels.

You don't need to produce in mono, but it's a good idea just to make sure your mix or certain sounds don't disappear when you collapse to mono. It's not just for clubs that may not have a perfect stereo reproduction, but also for shitty one speaker radios or on old TV's etc.

So the idea is that you mix levels and track should be able to at least decently present on a mono source. One way of doing this is is what kit described, which is certainly a great way of doing it, and what you'll find in most pro mix houses, where the tracks are all individual (even the stereo are 2 channels for instance, not to mention the LCRLsRs for surround) and you build the stereo image from scratch.

Personally I find it overkill for our uses as we generally create the sounds as we go and do the mix as part of the producing process, and therefore know where sounds go in the mix.

I think it's fine to keep it a mix of mono and stereo channels, but doing regular checks in mono on the master output to make sure things don't disappear.

Ideally, you want your track to great in stereo but still OK in mono. In a perfect situation, the width would just disappear when switching to mono but the mix, relative levels and sounds are all the same.

Since I started checking my mixes in mono they have definately improved. Its a lot easier to get the levels correct then you can revert back to adjust the panning and any more adjustments. As already mentioned to check if anything disappears.

Good thread

From what I read it seems like the 2 biggest offenders of phasing are the kick and bass. I would guess(from what I've learned in physics/circuits) that higher energy, lower frequency waveforms will be more able to effectively cancel themselves out if they're out of phase and coming from different sources.

I assume having them mono keeps them from phasing eachother out as the sound should always be in phase from any speaker. (assuming a club with lots of speakers everywhere, like the ones I dance at)

This is also why mixing with strictly headphones is very baaaaad.

My mixes have benefited greatly from mono-checks, and mono'ing kick/bass and percs. I've found that you can creatively use reveerb and delays to create space on mono'd instruments as well, but a mono check ensures that you haven't overdone anything. (I've had some stereo effects get really whack when I swapped to mono, and I was able to fix them in mono and translate them back to stereo)

quote:

Originally posted by theterran Good thread From what I read it seems like the 2 biggest offenders of phasing are the kick and bass. I would guess(from what I've learned in physics/circuits) that higher energy, lower frequency waveforms will be more able to effectively cancel themselves out if they're out of phase and coming from different sources. I assume having them mono keeps them from phasing eachother out as the sound should always be in phase from any speaker. (assuming a club with lots of speakers everywhere, like the ones I dance at) This is also why mixing with strictly headphones is very baaaaad.

Those 2 would be the least offending, if offending at all.

Other tracks in the stereo field is what you are checking mainly. Mixing with just headphones is fine it all depends on how well you know the phones you are using and quality of headphones.

these threads are always entertaining.

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