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Which Drum VSTi would you commend?

Me again,

WHY I WANT A DRUM MACHINE > I find in Cubase5 browsing sounds in the media tab window to be a slow process - one at a time, then having to take a chance on some sounds, import them, drag each to the cubase drum machine, not good.

I want to lets say have a kick playing and be able to scroll through loads one after the other in the main working window.


I've done a little research but wanted to get the views of you wise people on here before I committ.

My PRIME INTEREST is sound quality over and above all other features.

I'm looking for electronic sounds. I already have plenty of sample packs in case someone suggests this instead.

GEIST - looks interesting but I'm put off by the apparant feature laden complexity. I have no interest in a dedicated sequencer or arranger.

FM mentions something called MOTU BPM 1.5 as it apparantly has a massive library - which is all very well, BUT I DONT WANT A MASSIVE LIBRARY OF VEANGANCE SAMPLES, if you know what I mean.

Any recommendations?

Have a look at Linplug RMV - nice price (check KVR - it often goes for well under $100 USD), HUGE library of sounds and grooves, each pad can use either samples or its onboard drum synth to create your own sounds, no onboard sequencer, sample preview - it's a very underrated plugin.

That said, despite its complexity and onboard sequencer, I would really recommend giving the Geist demo a go - it's a beast. Yes, it's very feature-laden, but there's nothing terribly difficult to understand. The sampling capabilities are stellar (yes, it actually samples). You can program your own patterns in its own sequencer (which is actually very nicely implemented and has some great humanization/groove features) and you can drag those patterns into your host as MIDI for further editing/arranging. Or, you can just turn off the sequencer and do all your sequencing in your host. The library that it comes with is actually pretty limited, because it focuses on features, rather than being a preset machine - that shouldn't be an issue if you rely mostly on your own sample libraries. Personally, I do the same thing, so I tend to see most drum plugins' libraries as just an added bonus/HD hog.

MOTU BPM is decent and also has an onboard sequencer. I don't recall offhand if it has in-place sample preview, but I'm pretty sure that it does. When I owned it (prior to version 1.5), the library was very heavily tilted toward hip-hop sounds, but the 1.5 update provided some classic drum machine and electronica sounds, as I understand it. I never really cared much for it, so I sold it, but a lot of EDM guys love it. Requires iLok.

Maschine - you guys are probably sick of hearing me go on about it, so I'll just say, go buy it and prepare to have a blast. Works great with your own sample libraries (Kore-based library mapping), hands-on fun, excellent library, and now VST support.

Buy ableton and use drum racks.

Battery 3 but also don't overlook the simple but quite useful iDrum.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnus Battery 3

Definitely. Still one of the best IMO, especially if you want to have advanced layering capabilities on lots of pads.

Thanks guys, does anyone know if in Cubase 5 there is a way to browse samples IN THE PROJECT WINDOW, without having to import them first? I've read manual cover to cover to no avail.

At the mo, lets say I want a kick, I do this>

open media bay

choose lets say 10 kicks from a sample pack and import

then once imported drag one at a time to the pad inside Groove Agent that is playing the midi note.

Massivley inefficient as I have to GUESS how each sound will sit in the actual project.

I must be doing this wrong - for example I saw someone using FL and just rapidly firing thru every kick WHILE the project was playing and the kick was being triggered.

I try the Steinberg forum but find it to be a cold unfreindly place.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik Have a look at Linplug RMV -

You know it shocks me just how bad so many software houses are. All I want is a quick audio demo before I decide to bother downloading the demo version - can I find audio demos, nope! I often find myself thinking these people don;t step back and imagine trying to be a customer.

Another big problem is they don't show the price on each product - you have to go to the shop and all sorts - imagine a supermarket with no prices, where to get the prices you had to go around the houses!

Anyway - I'll download the demo - thanks for the advice - but it is amazing in this recessionary world that so many slap dash companies exist - shall we set up our own and make it 100% perfect!

spend on Maschine

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler Another big problem is they don't show the price on each product

No kidding, don't get me started on that - I f#%^ing hate it when developers play "hide-the-price" or, worse yet, make me add the product to a cart to see the price. It's usually no surprise that the products that don't show me the price are often the only ones that ever give me sticker shock - it's like, if they're worried that the price will scare me off, then that's probably because it's over-priced and/or the product description did a poor job of showing me why it's worth that price [/rant]

That aside, RMV is a pretty cool plugin and has been around long enough to be stable. It's like Battery 3 on steroids.

Get battery 3 - I was in the same position a year ago, and looked at all the other drum software, and had to concede that Battery (which i was already using) was the simplest and best option.

It lets you preview the samples in it's browser and drag them to pads which are keyed. You can also load loops in and the onboard ADSR and FX are really quite handy.

I just can't understand why drum software has to be so complicated - it's like the developers want you to stop using the functions already provided in your daw and use their functions instead (like Guru with the built in sequencer).

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik Maschine - you guys are probably sick of hearing me go on about it, so I'll just say, go buy it and prepare to have a blast. Works great with your own sample libraries (Kore-based library mapping), hands-on fun, excellent library, and now VST support.

Maschine is awesome, does exactly what your looking for, plus it can even be fun to make full tracks with Maschine alone. And pretty much everything Cryo said

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Get battery 3 - I was in the same position a year ago, and looked at all the other drum software, and had to concede that Battery (which i was already using) was the simplest and best option. It lets you preview the samples in it's browser and drag them to pads which are keyed. You can also load loops in and the onboard ADSR and FX are really quite handy. I just can't understand why drum software has to be so complicated - it's like the developers want you to stop using the functions already provided in your daw and use their functions instead (like Guru with the built in sequencer).

I'll check out Battery - thx.
Can you record a note, then leave it going round on a 4 bar loop whilst auditioning one kick / snare after another? This is vital for me. Do they bring out new samples regularly?

I so agree on the drum software propensity to be vastly over complex. I've come to a point where I don't have days in my life to give over to learning a single product, aside from a DAW that is. I've been quietly avoiding Omnisphere as people say it's very complex.

DAVE, RULZ and LUCIDITY - I had not considered macshine as I thought (from memory) it was v expensive, like �500, which I cannot spend on just drums as my missus would find out! Plus is that not going to give me the usual hardware latency problem, which I don;t mind too much with synths, but with drums - when timing is vital, I thought it would be a pain. HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THIS - DO YOU HAVE TO CONVERT THE MIDI TRIGGERING THE MASCHINE, INTO AUDIO AND MAKE A COMMITMENT AS IT WERE?


In case anyone else is interested, on another forum someone recommended NERVE by XFER, which I'm also trialing.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler DAVE, RULZ and LUCIDITY - I had not considered macshine as I thought (from memory) it was v expensive, like �500, which I cannot spend on just drums as my missus would find out! Plus is that not going to give me the usual hardware latency problem, which I don;t mind too much with synths, but with drums - when timing is vital, I thought it would be a pain. HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THIS - DO YOU HAVE TO CONVERT THE MIDI TRIGGERING THE MASCHINE, INTO AUDIO AND MAKE A COMMITMENT AS IT WERE?

Maschine is definitely more expensive. But, hardware (round-trip) latency is not an issue because the Maschine engine is entirely software-based, just like any other plugin. The hardware portion of Maschine is "just" a dedicated controller. I put "just" in quotations marks because it's so incredibly integrated with the software that it feels and functions almost like a self-enclosed hardware unit. But, the point is, the processing is all handled within your computer by the Maschine plugin and you cannot run Maschine without the software.

Regarding Battery, yes you can preview sample while it's running, as long as you've imported them into its library (very easy to do). NI doesn't bring out new sample libraries for it very often, but a lot of third-party developers will create Battery 3 presets for their libraries. Personally, I never use its presets and, while the Battery 3 factory library is pretty big, it's also very diverse and spread out over many different genres, including rock, pop, jazz, hip-hop, country, electronica, etc. NI does offer a few electronica libraries for it as well (e.g., Synthetic Drums 1 & 2). The factory samples sound good and most of the preset kits contain multi-layered pads, but you're better off importing and tagging your own samples and building your own custom kits on a per-song basis, particularly for EDM tracks IMO.

As Dave said, yes you can keep samples running and audio things at the same time. You just have the 4 beat midi loop going and browse for new samples through the built in browser by clicking them.

I never bothered with the NI samples - i've got so many drum samples from over the years I just use them or get new sample and shove them on to my samples drive.

You should check out Nerve from xfer records. I really like it. I own battery 3 but didn't enjoy using it to the extent that I uninstalled it. I really like Nerve though. It's easy to use and you can do everything really fast.

quote:

Originally posted by jayxthekoolest You should check out Nerve from xfer records. I really like it. I own battery 3 but didn't enjoy using it to the extent that I uninstalled it. I really like Nerve though. It's easy to use and you can do everything really fast.

forgot this one, tried the demo when it came out, VERY solid piece !!!!!

I would just recommend Komplete 7. Battery 3 for about $200 is a bit steep in price, but with komplete 7, you get an insane discount and lots of useful synths and other tools for about $500

quote:

Originally posted by J.L. I would just recommend Komplete 7. Battery 3 for about $200 is a bit steep in price, but with komplete 7, you get an insane discount and lots of useful synths and other tools for about $500

Ha, this will make you whince > my music PC from Digital Village came with that pre - installed, but I have a very wierd sensibility when it comes to tidyness, to the exstent that I uninstalled that whole thing without even trying it!

What it is with me, I cannot stand duplication - I would never for example use more than 1 DAW, no matter what the benefits were. When I saw this damned Kore player thing, I just instantly reviled from it - I had my DAW, I did not want another mini DAW as it were.

I tried Giest last night - not for me, way too many options - all I want is a quick way to browse sounds as they play inside the DAW project. I make all my own effects chains and so on and that Giest thing is FOR ME PERSONALLY duplicitous.

Wierd bloke eh!

METRUM is still the one for me, together with Nepheton & Drumazon & ofcourse cubase included plugs

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie METRUM is still the one for me, together with Nepheton & Drumazon & ofcourse cubase included plugs

Problem with those is that again they've got built in sequencers which completely negates the point of a sequencer(DAW) and Metrum is really just a kick synth.

I just want a simple drum sampler, but it looks like battery is the best of the bunch.

With Drumazon and Nepheton the sequencers are there so old skool guys like me can program them just like the original hardware units, ofcourse the sequencer can be turned of and u can perfectly trigger them from a piano roll view.

METRUM is a monofonic sampler, with a tone generator, you can trow your own samples in there as well, It's no only a Vengeance kick trigger.

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie With Drumazon and Nepheton the sequencers are there so old skool guys like me can program them just like the original hardware units, ofcourse the sequencer can be turned of and u can perfectly trigger them from a piano roll view. METRUM is a monofonic sampler, with a tone generator, you can trow your own samples in there as well, It's no only a Vengeance kick trigger.

Well, that's the thing - I actually sometimes use my Electribe via midi to program my drums, so basically I use it as a controller, with the hardware sample pads mapped to the software pads (hence why I want a simple drum sampler program as I already have both the Electrive or Logic to sequence).

Re: Which Drum VSTi would you commend?

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler Me again, WHY I WANT A DRUM MACHINE > I find in Cubase5 browsing sounds in the media tab window to be a slow process - one at a time, then having to take a chance on some sounds, import them, drag each to the cubase drum machine, not good. I want to lets say have a kick playing and be able to scroll through loads one after the other in the main working window.

Thats really a huge problem with the Groove Agent One.

You could get around this by opening the Media Bay and dragging each sample into the Groove Agent, BUT stupidly enough they will layer themselves on different velocities.

One way to get around this is to import a library of kicks into the Groove Agent, save them as presets and then using MIDI nudge up and down to find the right sample.

All they needed to add in Cubase 6 was the function to choose next or previous sample on each pad.

Battery 3 or Stylus RMX for me, because of their synth capabilities, so you could synthesize drums with just a sine sample for ex and layer them with other samples inside the software. And you get those gigantic libraries with them.

RM5 does the same very well apparently.

Geist anyone? It's supposed to be the ultimate, but I have no idea!

or BPM? That seems also very cool!

Another vote for Battery 3, plus they have also started to update it recently

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