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Posted by Teknikol on Aug-09-2002 12:55:

Subtractor learning?

TA's,

I'm am trying to create some trance music with Reason 1.0 for a while. I especially try to create kewl sounds with the SubTractor(wich is quite difficult)

I am in doubt of buying a good trance synth....
I was wondering if my experience with the subtractor would make a difference when I (maybe) will work with a hardware synth.

In any event I am very interested in how to make nice sounds with any synth.

Greetz,

Teknikol

Posted by DeZmA on Aug-09-2002 13:51:

experience with the analogue softsynth in reason will certainly help you understand a hardware synth but the other way round would be much better, ... You probably have the warez version of reason and if reason are your first steps to producing you probably won't understand a shit what all those parameters mean. I'm producing now for 3 years starting with an mc505, i learned a lot of it,filters, adsr enveloppe's, sequencing, effects, ... I learned a lot from the manual too, which you don't have with warez (duh) 2 years later i bought the an1x, those were my first steps to analogue synthesis,.. IMO a hardware synth is the best way to learn all things about synthesis, and you make music the way it should be (sorry softsynth fans ) I still believe that tweaking buttons is more musical then staring at a screen and playing with the mouse

Posted by Teknikol on Aug-09-2002 19:56:

quote:
[i][b]I still believe that tweaking buttons is more musical then staring at a screen and playing with the mouse

But the result is the same....or not?

Posted by Trancevision on Aug-10-2002 01:38:

quote:
I especially try to create kewl sounds with the SubTractor(wich is quite difficult)

which is almost impossible. I only know one person who can make that subtractor synth good, that's Robert ( the guy who posted the PUSH - universal nation sample ) and I don't thinkt he will tell us how he does. So, forget the sucking subtractor ...Use good samples with the NN19 sampler ( there are some good refills out there...)

Trancevision

Posted by Teknikol on Aug-11-2002 12:29:

quote:
Originally posted by Trancevision

So, forget the sucking subtractor ...Use good samples with the NN19 sampler ( there are some good refills out there...)

Trancevision

Okay, but i like working with a synth. Keep trying and trying till U are happy with it (for that moment, because if I hear it later I am less happier with it)

So I've seen and heard a lot of names like: Supernova, Novation, Korg...

What is the best synth for trance/techno?
(Or is that a dumb question)

Posted by DeZmA on Aug-11-2002 15:11:

There are no dumb questions, only dumb answers.
Fact is that there is no such a thing like a best synth, then you would have like one brand and everybody would buy that one and that's it (would be boring too). They all are good at one or more points.

some exemples:
analog warmth :
virus, an1x, supernova, ms 2000, jp 80(8)00, juno xxx, andromeda (real analog synthesis)

fat lead sounds, sfx, ..
nord lead, waldorf q, k-station

bass sounds :
tb303 , a-station

drum sounds :
rack attack, drumstation, tr909, ...

These are all synths that are made for dance music (but they might be usefull in other genres too of course)

Posted by Teknikol on Aug-12-2002 17:48:

Many thanx!

and btw...I've heard that the SubTractor in Reason is based on a Nordlead. True or False?

Posted by attacc on Aug-12-2002 20:17:

the guy who programmed subtractor was the guy who made the synthesis engine for nordlead 1 and 2

Posted by Mr.Mystery on Aug-13-2002 14:06:

quote:
Originally posted by Trancevision

which is almost impossible. I only know one person who can make that subtractor synth good, that's Robert ( the guy who posted the PUSH - universal nation sample ) and I don't thinkt he will tell us how he does. So, forget the sucking subtractor ...Use good samples with the NN19 sampler ( there are some good refills out there...)

Trancevision

You don't know what you're talking about.

Posted by Orionman on Aug-18-2002 05:45:

good synths

It is possible to have great sounds with reason and its a good soft to start with. Yes it will help a lot to learn this softsynth... An oscillator is the same thing on a real synth. yeah... effects may change a bit but you get the main idea!

if you are really lost, go back to rebirth, or previous version of fruity loops. BUT! Dont ever give up, it is wort it

Posted by Tom_cowan on Aug-18-2002 11:45:

Iv used reason 4 over a year now and have learnt so much from the subtractor, i knew some of the basics of analogue synthesis but now i know the subtractor inside out and sideways. You need to get hold of a manual though, as all analogue synthesis is basicly programed in the same way once you understand the subtractor you can program most synths to a point.

As for not being able to make descent sounds from the subtractor, that aint true, its fookin hard tho. I can make some fairly descent sounds, like i can make that cosmic gate sound from exploration of space but that took ages and a lot of thought. Try downloading the best tunes from reasonstation.net and see how theve made there sounds on it, make sure you understand how theve done it tho, dont just copy them. My tips for the subtractor are:
1) If u wanna make a sound dirty use LFO1 to modulate phase and crank up the rate and inch up the amount till you get the desired effect. Make sure you have the oscillators set on sawtooth and the phase set to minus otherwise it wont work.
2) Use the equaliser on the output of the subtractor and crank up the gain n shift the frequency depending on what sort of sound you want, if u want it to sound bigger, have it around 4k.

Dont get me wrong tho, i dont use it nemore, iv got a virus c and it sounds worlds away from the subtractor but i would never of been able to program it if i hadnt spent hours bangin my head against a wall with the subtarctor.

READ THE MANUAL!!!!!!!