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I need some help. or some Guidance

Hey guys. Check this out. So over the last few weeks I've been trying to create some new tracks. What I've been doing is creating a basic chord progression and then filling up around it. However, instead of constructing the song out. I've been bulding w/ individual samples that I've created. Kinda like this:



and it sounds like this:

Dubstep by DJRYAN�


So my question is this. All the pieces sound (to my liking) and I want to go back now and build the song. However, I'm not quite sure how to do it. I know it might sound silly. But this is a new methodology for me and making music. Usually I build out. Constructing the song as I go. This time I concentrated on the overall sound and not structure. So I guess what I'm asking for is some help on "structuring" the song now. How best to begin, break it down, build-it-up and make is so the entire song flows?

Any help would be appreciated.

You should turn on blocks mode and copy that pattern to block 1. Then, copy it over to the next block and start making adjustments to one of the parts and see what fits in. Copy that, and make another adjustment. You have 32 blocks to work with.

Also, turn your monitors down and take a break for the night. That mix is ultra shrill.

EDIT: Also, it sounds like you squashed the shit out of the dynamics. Turn the mastering suite off. The ONLY thing I have on is the EQ and the 30Hz cut. Leave the rest of it off until you're finished, then use it sparingingly.

block mode? Do you mean "bars" in the arrangement. Kind of like snap to grid. And then rearrange it? I think I know what your talking about. Its just a matter of organizing the song. Adding in some effects. Buildups. Etc. I think that's my problem. At this point, I normally break out my midi controller, and live mix the track. But what I've noticed, is that going back and modifying the automations I made with my controller is just as daunting as just going ahead and reorganizing the track. I'm also confronted with the beat. I went ahead and copied the pattern to the track. And now I'm task'd with having to get back in there, and delete bits and pieces of the pattern to build the song. Insead of, what I've normally done, and used my midi controller to mute and unmute different pieces of the pattern, to form the structure of the song.

So if I'm understanding you correctly. I'm gonna have to get in rearrange the song.. Got it..

I've produced several tracks in this manner. I usually would get the main part of the track created first - the chorus, if you will. Then after that I began to construct an intro that progressively brings everything in the main melody/chorus and all elements included in it, together. To start I would usually play a the beat, w/o the percussive elements and begin to play very little parts of the main melody, like one chord, then eventually begin to play two chords of the whole melody, until it sounded like it was time to either make a drop and bring everything in full force or just open up the entire melody. Its fucking tricky to get it to work to my liking, but its usually how I end up producing. As the intro progresses and I begin to play more chords of the main melody, I begin to try and subtly bring in other elements, like small portions of the bass line or any other synths that i have playing in the main part of my track. I usually automate some effects in the intro along with all this to really bring the energy of the track to light; like gradually applying more cut off until it gets to the point I Want the chorus to sound like.

This reply doesnt seem to be very clear, I'm sorry if its of no help but thats how I have found things to work, and after I build the intro, I can then more easily add and create brakedowns and bridge certain parts of the track. Blocks for me are a vital in this method; If I dont use them it becomes a HUGE mess.

quote:

Originally posted by DJRYAN� block mode? Do you mean "bars" in the arrangement. Kind of like snap to grid. And then rearrange it? I think I know what your talking about. Its just a matter of organizing the song. Adding in some effects. Buildups. Etc. I think that's my problem. At this point, I normally break out my midi controller, and live mix the track. But what I've noticed, is that going back and modifying the automations I made with my controller is just as daunting as just going ahead and reorganizing the track. I'm also confronted with the beat. I went ahead and copied the pattern to the track. And now I'm task'd with having to get back in there, and delete bits and pieces of the pattern to build the song. Insead of, what I've normally done, and used my midi controller to mute and unmute different pieces of the pattern, to form the structure of the song. So if I'm understanding you correctly. I'm gonna have to get in rearrange the song.. Got it..

Be sure and check my edit.

And, Yeah. Take your time with it. There's tons of things you can modify from pitch and rhythm to velocity and other things. What I'll do is flip it back into song mode so I can hear the adjustments I've made, in the context of the song. When I was first starting out, pattern shifting and progression sucked, but, like all things, you get better at doing it and then it's one of the easy parts and you're frustrated by the next new mega-whale-turd you have to comprehend.

EDIT: - Not the first, more important edit -

You can still do automation but do that only in song mode. Basically, that will allow you to modify something that's changing on its own and that can really give a track drive.

You hit the nail right on the head when you said "whale turd". I know what I have to do now. Anyone have a blunt?

Here's what I'm talking about. You can even record instrumentation, in song mode, and that'll add a lot of depth.

track arrangement looks good. Wonder what it sounds like =)

how do you like Reason 5 compared to 4?

quote:

Originally posted by DJRYAN� track arrangement looks good. Wonder what it sounds like =) how do you like Reason 5 compared to 4?

That's only about a third of the arrangement, I think. It sounds kind of like yours, only faster and better.


I was actually using Reason 3 before that, so, just counting Thor, ReGroove, Dr. Octorex and Kong, not to mention the afforementioned new sequencer lay-out, it fucking mega-rocks. I've also noticed that they've made some adjustments to timing accuracy, as when I've imported tracks from Reason into Sonar I used to have to line up the plosives manually. The inaccuracies kind of looked like this:



It pays to have it lined up, perfectly, because it muddles the sound, otherwise.



The last song I was working on, I didn't even notice the muddy sounding drums but I went ahead and checked, as sometimes your ears get sloppy and it didn't need any finessing, whatsoever. It was just lined up, right where it was supposed to be.

Yea, I remember using a couple of programs in the past where I was limited in how close I could get samples together. That picture describes it perfectly. It pays to be able to go in 8th, 32nd, and some cased 64th. =)

quote:

Originally posted by DJRYAN� Yea, I remember using a couple of programs in the past where I was limited in how close I could get samples together. That picture describes it perfectly. It pays to be able to go in 8th, 32nd, and some cased 64th. =)

You should be able to turn the snap-grid feature off. At least you can in SONAR.

Yea you can turn it off. I actually use it quite frequently. Anyways, So I've been workin on this track for the past couple of hours. I really need some practice in arranging songs. And, my frequencies are probably a bit off. I tried to equalize it as much as possible to keep thinks from bleeding over. But here's what the arrangement looks like now:



and of course here's what it sounds like. ALthough I did tweak some more of the sounds to make it a little more cliean. The last third of the track still needs a little work. But I think I'm moving over to another project now. Been workin on a new dj set and I'm like 8 reocrds in or 45 minutes. But The last big of it still needs some work. So. Take a listen. Also, any advice on fx would be great on this set. Oh! and I definitely want to do more to the basses- except for the main bass. Really the "dubstep-wobble" bass needs a little work. But, I'm not getting it to do anything I want it to using the subtractors. So. I'll save that for another day.

Dubstep3 by DJRYAN?

Still needs a little bit more. But here it is.
Oh and any idea on how to get it to move.. Turn.. uh.. That would be great =)

Oh and this is my favoite tutorial on DubStep.. Uh.. Duh!! Jeez!!

Cascading Down (Original Mix) by DJRYAN�

So after I shared with you all my other DubStep track. (the one on page one) I went onto YouTube and watched a couple of tutorials. Primairly because I crave that big heavy bass sound and the last track, although a good try, missed out on something. The video said first make a kick snare. Then fill up the voids with hi-hats and cymbals and then create a nice little rif. Finally, like in all DubStep you have to drop the bass. Here's tonight's little project. Take a listen and let me know what you think.

sounds a bit on the too happy side for dubstep for me.
needs to be darker with more gritt. now sounds like you've limited yourself with trance patches in order to create dubstep track

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie sounds a bit on the too happy side for dubstep for me. needs to be darker with more gritt. now sounds like you've limited yourself with trance patches in order to create dubstep track

I completely agree with what Ralphie said. The synths are quite trancey, if you will. They hurt my ears and sound way to generic. I like the beat, though. The bass you have used for the wobble doesnt feel right to me; not enough bass, maybe chop it up in an EQ a bit, or create a totally different one. The wobble doesnt seem to gel or move well with the rest of the track, and that combinded with the loud synths kinda turns me off. I'm not a huge dubstep fan anyway, but those are my thoughts! Keep working man, I'm not trying to sound like a dick right now, its just what i though of it all.

Good god men, with postig screenshots like that you make me want to remove my eyeballs with rusty forks and wash them with caustic soda.

Reason is truly quite fucking ugly.

























Carry on.

quote:

Originally posted by sicc I completely agree with what Ralphie said. The synths are quite trancey, if you will. They hurt my ears and sound way to generic. I like the beat, though. The bass you have used for the wobble doesnt feel right to me; not enough bass, maybe chop it up in an EQ a bit, or create a totally different one. The wobble doesnt seem to gel or move well with the rest of the track, and that combinded with the loud synths kinda turns me off. I'm not a huge dubstep fan anyway, but those are my thoughts! Keep working man, I'm not trying to sound like a dick right now, its just what i though of it all.

when I first read this I got the idea that I could be onto a new genre of Dubstep. Then I chill'd my ego a little and realized that I still have a long way to go. But I definitely appreciate you listening. I'm about to get back into it. After listening to it 1/2 dozen times I'm gonna go back in and do some major mods. Just so I can be satisfied w/ it. Cause right now I'm not. I'll probably most up the revised one here in a few hours.

I decided to start a new track tonight... Whoaaa... I love it =)

This Sound by DJRYAN�

you have improved, ill give you that. its ALOT better than your first stuff. still a long way to go but atleast the levels and sounds are decent and you havent overcompressed it. after a harsh couple of first weeks on TA (your own fault though lol) you sticked through it so now its just to keep it up, and keep it humble. finished songs can be posted in promotion forum.

Thank you! do you know how excited I was when this last track started to really wobble? Omg! Not to sound like a douche or whatever but heck yea. Its all about LFO and different waves. Gawwwwsh.. I can sleep good today.

i know the feeling but that doesnt mean the track is finished. you should work alot on eq, it sounds pretty harsh and stuff is interfering. also the reverb on kick+snare should atleast be sidechained, its drowning your headroom. basically id work on the mixdown and then try to add some more variations, efex and stuff. its pretty static compared to real dubstep, and dont forget that even goos dubstep is really boring and overused already. that means your track is below mediocre at best, but still alot better than your other tracks.

edit: there are two types of persons, the one that are never happy with what they do no matter how good it is, and the other one who are happy with just about anything. i think u fall under the last category. try to be a little more critical to yourself.

thanks Clay. I'm still a work in progress. But I do appreciate your feedback. And others too. You know I really have a passion for EDM. ANd since I haven't been djing out this is really my only outlet to express myself OR participate in the scene besides the occasional parties I go to. But nonetheless, I've been having some questions on build-ups and drops.

Drops by DJRYAN�

I made a sample, as to the best of my ability. Dropping a new dubstep bass that I created. Is this the correct timing?

That's been the only thing I've been concerned about when doing drops is that I wasn't sure on whether to put move it forward a bit, or keep it on the line? Any help would be appreciated.

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